Betta Fish Health Emergency

[Lumpkinz11]

This is a repost from the Betta forum. I'm just hoping to get more help, thank you in advance!

Hi all - to begin, I used to have Betta fish, but since then I have forgotten most of what I learned. I just need a hand right now, so any opinions will be awesome! Thank you in advance

This is my in-laws betta fish, not mine and not my husband's. I am not around enough to properly care for their pet, which they've had for around a year now. For the past few days, the betta fish was missing in the tank, and they didn't look for him at all. They just assumed he was dead, and left him in the tank. I looked today, and he's alive, crammed in between the wall and a piece of decor (by choice, he wasn't stuck). Let's get right to the point, as I fear even typing this is wasting time.

Water Parameters:
(I used a quick testing strip, I didn't do an entire test)

• GH 180
• KH 0
• PH 6.0
• NO2 0
• NO3 200

Aside from these numbers, I've noticed other worrying things. A large issue is the symptoms he's displaying. I'll list them below.

Symptoms:

• Pineconing (scales sticking up)
• He wants to remain curled
• Breathing quickly
• Very fast and erratic swimming, only when he's "forced" to move

I'm just gonna post this ASAP, and edit it as anything changes. Thank you again!!!

 

[Andy Sager]

Pineconing is an advanced stage of Dropsy which is caused by organ failure and a lack of the ability to osmo-regulate itself due to a number of possibilities: Poor water quality, Internal bacterial infection, bloat from improper diet to name the most common causes. If the people aren't doing proper maintenance or water changes, that is most likely the cause.
Advanced dropsy like this has an extremely poor survival rate and medicating the problem may lead to a cure of the cause but unless the fish's organs also recover, the fish will die anyway. Point #2 is that it usually costs more in medicines to cure than replacing the fish will cost. ( It's a harsh way of looking at this but it's a more realistic one.)
In the end, once a fish has started pineconing, the success rate of cure is less than 1% (+/- ) and IMO, the most humane thing to do is euthanize the fish.
Hope this helps.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I 100% agree with @Andy Sager that the most humane thing for the fish is euthanasia. Once dropsy is visibly present it's beyond treatment most of the time

Moving forward, looking at the parameters it shows a complete lack of aquarium care. Nitrate is ridiculously high and KH is depleted. Both are signs that sufficient water changes haven't been undertaken.

If your in laws plan on getting another fish please teach them to look after it properly.

 

[Lumpkinz11]

Thank you, @Andy Sager ! I did a water change, and took out the heater (the temperature was about 90 degrees Fahrenheit). The water smelled like rotten standing water, and I double checked/changed the filter. I conditioned the water with some Tap Water Conditioner.

Also, thank you @Aiken Drum - I hope to stop them from getting another fish entirely. Otherwise, how would I go about putting down this fish? I have some Clove oil from euthanizing a previous fish of mine; what else would you recommend?

 

[Aiken Drum]

An Overview of Euthanasia

Euthanasia: An Overview By: Devilishturtles What is Euthanasia, and why should we consider it? As aquarium hobbyists, we have a responsibility to care for the fish we take into our tanks. However, sometimes there simply comes a time when we cannot take care of them any longer. Old age...

www.aquariumadvice.com

 

[EGGBERT]

If i expressed an unexpurgated opinion, i would be banned from this site, which i wish to avoid! Reading about this poor betta’s fate has upset & angered me tremendously, largely because the conditions in question (of the fish & his environment, respectively) were avoidable w/attention & proper care. Imo, this is an illustration of why some individuals should not be the guardians of other life forms—particularly life forms (like aquatics) whose habitats r vastly different from that of ‘terrestrials’ like humans, & specifically re water-dwellers, ‘blame’ can be particularly cast on retailers who underplay just how profound such a commitment is; rather they just entice & excite potential hobbyists—(most egregiously, those w/children)—w/the enchantment of these creatures, w/minimal focus on the CARE/MAINTENANCE factor. It makes my blood boil

 

[Andy Sager]

If i expressed an unexpurgated opinion, i would be banned from this site, which i wish to avoid! Reading about this poor betta’s fate has upset & angered me tremendously, largely because the conditions in question (of the fish & his environment, respectively) were avoidable w/attention & proper care. Imo, this is an illustration of why some individuals should not be the guardians of other life forms—particularly life forms (like aquatics) whose habitats r vastly different from that of ‘terrestrials’ like humans, & specifically re water-dwellers, ‘blame’ can be particularly cast on retailers who underplay just how profound such a commitment is; rather they just entice & excite potential hobbyists—(most egregiously, those w/children)—w/the enchantment of these creatures, w/minimal focus on the CARE/MAINTENANCE factor. It makes my blood boil

Unfortunately, there is no screening process to own a fish tank as there is by some places before selling someone a dog or cat. Certainly many people who keep fish would not qualify to own them if there was. That is where the business side of the pet industry clashes with the hobbyist side. Sadly, if only "true" hobbyists were a shop's only customers, most stores would go out of business. Then what happens? The hobbyist loses it's local source for fish and supplies and more importantly, information. So the whole blame can not be on the shops. It's as much the people buying the setups as it is the sellers not giving people the full story of what's involved in keeping fish. Back in the day, people read books about how to keep fish tanks. The internet age has eliminated the pre purchase information. People want " short, sweet and to the point" answers to their questions and that's not how you keep a fish tank. It's way more involved. Sadly, many fish have become throw away pets. That is the fault of the breeders then the people they sell them to on down to the person who eventually buys them. That's the hard facts of the world of fish keeping.
So consider all of this before you let your blood boil.

 

[EGGBERT]

No argument, Andy! U likely know that ‘companion animals’ of various species r vulnerable to being ‘throwaways’—it’s mind boggling/soul shattering. It sickens me that the covid pandemic & the associated mob-purchase of ‘comfort’ & ‘boredom assuaging’ pets flipped into an epidemic of pet-dumping when folks were able to resume their prior commitments

I’m something of an ‘animal empath’, which drew me into animal advocacy/rescue for most of my life, but consumingly so following an especially tragic loss nearly 2 decades ago.

This has been a crushing year as my husb & i lost 5 of 7 cats—2 of them last month—so my sensitivity is heightened.

The suffering betta story killed me. When i was eyeball deep in the rescue community, the focal species were cats & dogs, but birds & misc. other species were in the mix.

I recently lost a betta that i adored, so that’s a highlighted species for me. Petsmart—a good source for certain paraphernalia & other basics (meows & aquatics) showcases bettas in those obscene, wee cups—i have to rush past them when shopping there. I’m awaiting one coming straight from Indonesia—arriving in a week or two—3-4mos old; he’ll be sharing a 5gallon w/a couple of snails—i can’t wait!!!

[Unrelated: i got a spider plant for the 10gallon (re nitrate reduction post)]

 

[Andy Sager]

No argument, Andy! U likely know that ‘companion animals’ of various species r vulnerable to being ‘throwaways’—it’s mind boggling/soul shattering. It sickens me that the covid pandemic & the associated mob-purchase of ‘comfort’ & ‘boredom assuaging’ pets flipped into an epidemic of pet-dumping when folks were able to resume their prior commitments

I’m something of an ‘animal empath’, which drew me into animal advocacy/rescue for most of my life, but consumingly so following an especially tragic loss nearly 2 decades ago.

This has been a crushing year as my husb & i lost 5 of 7 cats—2 of them last month—so my sensitivity is heightened.

The suffering betta story killed me. When i was eyeball deep in the rescue community, the focal species were cats & dogs, but birds & misc. other species were in the mix.

I recently lost a betta that i adored, so that’s a highlighted species for me. Petsmart—a good source for certain paraphernalia & other basics (meows & aquatics) showcases bettas in those obscene, wee cups—i have to rush past them when shopping there. I’m awaiting one coming straight from Indonesia—arriving in a week or two—3-4mos old; he’ll be sharing a 5gallon w/a couple of snails—i can’t wait!!!

[Unrelated: i got a spider plant for the 10gallon (re nitrate reduction post)]

Unfortunately, so many of the farmed fish species have been overbred so they are nothing like their wild counterparts in health, stamina or genetics. As for keeping Bettas in cups, we could have the discussion/argument about them but I'll just add that some species of wild bettas live and breed in the equivalent of the water that a bromeliad plant holds. Some even use wild bromeliads to spawn in, so they don't necessarily need a lot of water. In fact, many of the newer fin variations on Bettas has made swimming even harder for them that a tank with any water movement is like being on a perpetual treadmill for them. This is a wild male Betta splendens ( the original species that was kept). Notice how it does not have the long fins so swimming was not an issue for this specie and yet they still live in small areas or pockets of water. So Bettas in cups is not the same as say, a Guppy in a cup.

 

[EGGBERT]

Unfortunately, so many of the farmed fish species have been overbred so they are nothing like their wild counterparts in health, stamina or genetics. As for keeping Bettas in cups, we could have the discussion/argument about them but I'll just add that some species of wild bettas live and breed in the equivalent of the water that a bromeliad plant holds. Some even use wild bromeliads to spawn in, so they don't necessarily need a lot of water. In fact, many of the newer fin variations on Bettas has made swimming even harder for them that a tank with any water movement is like being on a perpetual treadmill for them. This is a wild male Betta splendens ( the original species that was kept). View attachment 391977 Notice how it does not have the long fins so swimming was not an issue for this specie and yet they still live in small areas or pockets of water. So Bettas in cups is not the same as say, a Guppy in a cup.

I prefer the Plakat variety—closer to the wild variety.
I want to be sure i’m not misunderstanding u: all things being relative, those wee cups that Bettas r displayed in r NOT sadistic/inhumane because the bettas r accustomed (in Nature) to low-flow/low-oxygen & sometimes minimal water supply?

I have researched them/their requirements, so that data isn’t revelatory, but your opinion supplies me w/a bit of comfort!
I have more Qs:

When i receive the betta i’m expecting (a plakat), i will adjust the filter to low flow; should i also remove the airstone that’s currently in the 5gal?
There’s no way, via the air pump, to adjust the intensity of the flow, but the stone can be partially buried to soften the flow. Please advise on this point. TY

 

[Andy Sager]

I prefer the Plakat variety—closer to the wild variety.

There is an interesting article in the Betta Forum regarding Plakats vs Wild Bettas but the site is currently down for upgrading so I can't link it :^s but the Plakats are closer to wild in shape only. They differ in temperament and some appearances. The word Plakat is a Thai word which means " biting fish" in English. They may look like wild forms but that's where the similarities kinda end. The ones you get today tend to be more aggressive than the wild Betta splendens because they are being bred with other more aggressive Betta species or the more aggressive B splendens lines that originate back some 600+ years when they were purposely bred for fighting.

I want to be sure i’m not misunderstanding u: all things being relative, those wee cups that Bettas r displayed in r NOT sadistic/inhumane because the bettas r accustomed (in Nature) to low-flow/low-oxygen & sometimes minimal water supply?

No, they are not. Bettas belong in the family Anabantidae. These include Gouramis, Bettas, Paradisefish and a host of other species ( some which are aquarium fish) and have developed a Labyrinth organ because they come from poorly oxygenated waters in nature that go trough dry spells or periods of time with very little rainfall. This organ allows them to breath air from the atmosphere to get supplemental oxygen. So with that, those wee little cups are not depriving the fish from living PLUS, they are used NOT as a permanent housing but a temporary one. Bettas from the Far East used to come in tiny pill bottles ( The same size as test vials from old test kits). You'd be surprised just how small a space they can live in. Now, they come in tiny plastic bags with just enough water to keep them wet. So as a temporary housing, those little cups are actually an UPGRADE from what they just through to get here. They can handle the small space very well opposed to many other species.

I have researched them/their requirements, so that data isn’t revelatory, but your opinion supplies me w/a bit of comfort!
I have more Qs:

When i receive the betta i’m expecting (a plakat), i will adjust the filter to low flow; should i also remove the airstone that’s currently in the 5gal?
There’s no way, via the air pump, to adjust the intensity of the flow, but the stone can be partially buried to soften the flow. Please advise on this point. TY

A low flow output is a better set up for Bettas in general. No need for air stones or other machinery. In fact, the Betta Breeders I know in the Far East kept their Male fish in 1 Gallon tanks with no aeration and the females in smaller jars. If you have other fish or livestock in the tank that needs aeration, you can reduce the aeration from a pump by using a gang valve instead of a direct line from the pump to the air stone. This is a picture of a gang valve but there are many brands of them on the market: This is a 5 way gang valve but they come in 2, 3 ,4, 5 and up. You get one that has more valves than you need for your air operated things. So let's say you have 2 air stones, you'd want at least a 3 way valve. That last valve is to be used as a " bleeder" valve to reduce the back pressure on the air pump ( which will also help reduce the noise from the air pump). You start by attaching the line from the pump to the valve then to all the items you want the pump to run. Turn all the valves off except the ones going to your items and turn on the pump. Adjust the valves to the bubblers or other items to be running a little faster than you want then start opening the last valve slowly to release the excess air and stop when your items are bubbling at the rate you want them to be. By bleeding off the back pressure, you will extend the life of your pumps exponentially. I have pumps that are over 30 years old that still work because they were set up " properly" . ( FYI, Burying an air stone does not slow it down or " soften" the amount of bubbles. It just makes the bubbles come out from less spaces. )

So that's the deal.

 

[EGGBERT]

There is an interesting article in the Betta Forum regarding Plakats vs Wild Bettas but the site is currently down for upgrading so I can't link it :^s but the Plakats are closer to wild in shape only. They differ in temperament and some appearances. The word Plakat is a Thai word which means " biting fish" in English. They may look like wild forms but that's where the similarities kinda end. The ones you get today tend to be more aggressive than the wild Betta splendens because they are being bred with other more aggressive Betta species or the more aggressive B splendens lines that originate back some 600+ years when they were purposely bred for fighting.

No, they are not. Bettas belong in the family Anabantidae. These include Gouramis, Bettas, Paradisefish and a host of other species ( some which are aquarium fish) and have developed a Labyrinth organ because they come from poorly oxygenated waters in nature that go trough dry spells or periods of time with very little rainfall. This organ allows them to breath air from the atmosphere to get supplemental oxygen. So with that, those wee little cups are not depriving the fish from living PLUS, they are used NOT as a permanent housing but a temporary one. Bettas from the Far East used to come in tiny pill bottles ( The same size as test vials from old test kits). You'd be surprised just how small a space they can live in. Now, they come in tiny plastic bags with just enough water to keep them wet. So as a temporary housing, those little cups are actually an UPGRADE from what they just through to get here. They can handle the small space very well opposed to many other species.

A low flow output is a better set up for Bettas in general. No need for air stones or other machinery. In fact, the Betta Breeders I know in the Far East kept their Male fish in 1 Gallon tanks with no aeration and the females in smaller jars. If you have other fish or livestock in the tank that needs aeration, you can reduce the aeration from a pump by using a gang valve instead of a direct line from the pump to the air stone. This is a picture of a gang valve but there are many brands of them on the market: View attachment 391978 This is a 5 way gang valve but they come in 2, 3 ,4, 5 and up. You get one that has more valves than you need for your air operated things. So let's say you have 2 air stones, you'd want at least a 3 way valve. That last valve is to be used as a " bleeder" valve to reduce the back pressure on the air pump ( which will also help reduce the noise from the air pump). You start by attaching the line from the pump to the valve then to all the items you want the pump to run. Turn all the valves off except the ones going to your items and turn on the pump. Adjust the valves to the bubblers or other items to be running a little faster than you want then start opening the last valve slowly to release the excess air and stop when your items are bubbling at the rate you want them to be. By bleeding off the back pressure, you will extend the life of your pumps exponentially. I have pumps that are over 30 years old that still work because they were set up " properly" . ( FYI, Burying an air stone does not slow it down or " soften" the amount of bubbles. It just makes the bubbles come out from less spaces. )

So that's the deal.

This is super-helpful/useful info, Andy—THANKS!!! Next stop: gang valve…
I appreciate your setting me straight about so many points. The more i learn about this stuff, the more ignorant i realize i am, BUT, i’m turning the tide thanks to u & the other ‘fishperts’ i’ve conferred with! Ever onward!!!!!

 

[Andy Sager]

This is super-helpful/useful info, Andy—THANKS!!! Next stop: gang valve…
I appreciate your setting me straight about so many points. The more i learn about this stuff, the more ignorant i realize i am, BUT, i’m turning the tide thanks to u & the other ‘fishperts’ i’ve conferred with! Ever onward!!!!!

Don't forget, no matter how much you know about fish keeping, there is always going to be something new to learn.

 

[Lumpkinz11]

Hi again all! I am truly deeply apologetic for any feelings this post arose. I am upset, too, as I have told the betta's owners to do better, time and time again.

As an update, they refuse to allow me to euthanize their fish. I was intending on using clove oil to euthanize the fish (I have done this once before, but feel confident in my ability to safetly help the fish pass). It is days later, and the fish is still alive. I pulled the heater out (again, it was at 90 degrees F, while the outside weather was in the early 80s), did another water change, and tried to feed the fish. They have stopped feeding the fish, or turning on the light in the tank. I also understand it is their fish and thus their decision on euthanasia, but they don't seem to understand the abuse/neglect they have put unto this fish.

I don't know if anyone here cares about birds, but I posted about their bird's cage setup here and boy are they BAD at keeping pets...I really wish there was more I could do.

IMPORTANT EDIT: Also, I might have been incorrect about the pine-coning? I swear the betta had scales sticking straight up, for a day or longer. Now when I check on him, his scales are flat again. He lays on the ground, completely flat, barely breathing - literally, no gill movement. I thought he had passed, so I tried to scoop him up with a net. He swam around like crazy, then was right back to being flat and still on the bottom.

 

[Aiken Drum]

How long have they had the betta? Old age could be a factor if they have had him more than a year.

Even though they aren't letting you euthanise the fish, are they otherwise letting you help him? I would start by getting the water quality under control. 10% water change every day for a week, see where the parameters are then would be a starting point. And if you can get a better photo or even a video uploaded to YouTube and post a link. See if that throws up anything to make a diagnosis from.

No need to apologise, it's not your fish. And even if it was, many people come here to learn and we try not to be too judgemental (although i fail at that sometimes). There do need to be realistic expectations though. If the owner doesn't want to improve things there isn't much anyone can do to help.