Change in fish behavior

[TheDudeAbides]

My fish have recently exhibited a slight change in behavior… up until about a a week or two ago, whenever we go over to the tank to feed them, they’ve always came close anticipating the food drop. Then they’d mostly all go nuts to the surface to eat. Now it seems like they’re all hesitant to go to the surface and it takes them all a while to finally start eating. It’s like they’re all suddenly not as voracious to eat as they used to be. But they do still eat. Just not the same way they used to. Water tests not showing anything changes either. Very odd.

 

[Andy Sager]

My fish have recently exhibited a slight change in behavior… up until about a a week or two ago, whenever we go over to the tank to feed them, they’ve always came close anticipating the food drop. Then they’d mostly all go nuts to the surface to eat. Now it seems like they’re all hesitant to go to the surface and it takes them all a while to finally start eating. It’s like they’re all suddenly not as voracious to eat as they used to be. But they do still eat. Just not the same way they used to. Water tests not showing anything changes either. Very odd.

Under " certain" circumstances, this would be a sign that you finally feed them enough that they are not constantly hungry all the time . How often are you changing water? Has there been a temperature change? Are you sure there is no disease present?
Another possibility is that something scared them at the surface so they are hesitant to go up there and are just waiting for the food to fall further down into the water column.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Under " certain" circumstances, this would be a sign that you finally feed them enough that they are not constantly hungry all the time . How often are you changing water? Has there been a temperature change? Are you sure there is no disease present?
Another possibility is that something scared them at the surface so they are hesitant to go up there and are just waiting for the food to fall further down into the water column.

Under " certain" circumstances, this would be a sign that you finally feed them enough that they are not constantly hungry all the time . How often are you changing water? Has there been a temperature change? Are you sure there is no disease present?
Another possibility is that something scared them at the surface so they are hesitant to go up there and are just waiting for the food to fall further down into the water column.

I do a partial water change once a week. No temperature changes and I’m pretty sure there’s no disease present. Perhaps something scared them at the surface at some point but I can’t imagine what. No other signs of anything else out of the ordinary

 

[Andy Sager]

I do a partial water change once a week. No temperature changes and I’m pretty sure there’s no disease present. Perhaps something scared them at the surface at some point but I can’t imagine what. No other signs of anything else out of the ordinary

Then as long as they ARE eating, I wouldn't put too much time being concerned about it. Just make sure your water parameters are not at the upper levels of " acceptable". ( BTW, posting test numbers is more helpful to diagnosing issues than " Okay" or "Acceptable" or " In range" are. )

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Ok. Well, I have to recheck all of my levels again because I started to and then had an urgent matter to attend to. I did however get to check the pH and it was on the low side… approximately 6.4. Is there any possible correlation to this behavior perhaps? Also, is this a safe level for my fish in general? I have mostly a few varieties of Tetras, a couple of Green Gold Cory’s and a couple of Glass Cats. I will update with the other results as soon as I get to them.

 

[Andy Sager]

A pH at 6.4 is not an issue if your water is usually 6.4. If it isn't, then something is going on that is lowering your ph. ( High nitrates will cause a low pH.) But here's the thing with lower pH levels, nitrifying microbes do not like them so they slow down and the nitrogen cycle slows down as well. At 6.0, the nitrogen cycle moves so slow that you barely notice it. Depending on who you ask, below 6 and the cycle basically stops. ( I say it depends on who you ask because I was always told that it's under 5.0 but there are current articles stating that it's under 6.0. ) The good news is that under 6.8, any ammonia in the water from the fish will naturally be converted to non toxic ammonium so if you change any water or add any additives that will increase the pH level, make sure you have no ammonium registering on your ammonia test because it will become toxic ammonia above 7.0. The downside to having that lower pH is that with poor or no nitrification, the fish waste does not break down so it needs to be removed through filtration or manually.

pH can have some weird effects on fish. When I first got started with fish, I got 12 small Angelfish for the tank from my Mentor. The day after acclimating , all the fish were facing the back of the tank. I didn't think much of it because the tank was in front of a window so I just figured the fish were checking out the scenery out the window. I mentioned this to my Mentor and he told me to check my pH. Sure enough, he was keeping the fish at about 7.0-7.2 and my tank was in low 6s. I added a nice large conch shell to help add some calcium and a week later, the fish all turned around and the pH was back to the upper 6s so closer to what they came out of. So I can't say for sure that you pH is the problems but there may be a connection. Let's see your other numbers, especially nitrates.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

The last time I checked my tap water pH it was at 6.8-7.0 I believe. I’m going to check that again as well as the ammonia and nitrate levels. For the longest time my tank pH was around 7.6, then after a bunch of water changes it came down to around 7.0 and stayed there. Now it’s trending downward all of a sudden.

 

[Andy Sager]

The last time I checked my tap water pH it was at 6.8-7.0 I believe. I’m going to check that again as well as the ammonia and nitrate levels. For the longest time my tank pH was around 7.6, then after a bunch of water changes it came down to around 7.0 and stayed there. Now it’s trending downward all of a sudden.

Make sure you let your tap water sample settle overnight before testing. There is a " gassing off" that needs to happen in the water to get an accurate reading.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Make sure you let your tap water sample settle overnight before testing. There is a " gassing off" that needs to happen in the water to get an accurate reading.

Didn’t realize that. Good to know. I’ll check Nitrate, Nitrite, and Ammonia levels in tank tonight and set aside some tap water to be checked tomorrow. Fish are still not racing for food at the surface like they used to, but as far as I can tell, they are still eating. Just seems like they’re more cautious to go up and eat or some just wait now until some of it starts to drop to them.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Here are the results of my water tests from yesterday:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: approx. 15
Letting some tap water gas off and will check tonight for pH level.
Do you recommend I get a GH and KH test kit as well or is that unnecessary?

 

[TheDudeAbides]

My tap water pH is actually reading about 7.6, and I rechecked the tank water… showing about 6.8 still. How are they so far apart? I just did a water change 3 days ago.

 

[Aiken Drum]

What you have is a lot of natural processes that are trying to pull your parameters in different directions. Nitrate will be in the form of nitric acid, so as nitrate rises due to the nitrogen cycle your water becomes more acidic. The nitrogen cycle also uses up KH so you lose buffering and the acidification can happen more readily. Disolved CO2 is important as it forms carbonic acid. Fish and plant respiration puts CO2 in the water so causes acidification, but plants use CO2 as its carbon source for growth so plant growth increases pH as it lowers CO2. Rocks might add mineral content to the water and rause pH and hardness. Driftwood will absorb mineral content and soften the water lowering pH.

What this means is that parameters in an aquarium where these different processes are all working in different directions result in different parameters in the aquarium compared to what comes out of your tap. And every aquarium will be different. Generally these processes add up to water becoming more acidic in the aquarium, and getting more acidic over time. If you have a good level of KH this will buffer your pH against these changes and keep things more stable. If your KH is low you have less buffering and the natural acidification will be more pronounced. If your KH is very low you risk it getting depleted and the natural acidification would cause your pH to rapidly drop.

Because these processes happen at different times you may find your pH will be different depending on when you do the testing. Test before your weekly water change when nitrate is higher you may see a lower pH compared to a test when nitrate is lower earlier in the week. Test during the day when plants are photosynthesising and using CO2 the pH may be higher than at night when plants are respiring and producing CO2.

 

[Andy Sager]

Aiken gave you your answer. You probably have low KH ( buffering) which is why the levels are not similar. This is why you should have a KH/GH test kit so that you know just how low it is. If I remember correctly, different parts of NY state have different water parameters ( I'm from Jersey and sold fish in NY so that's what I recall was an issue . ) As Aiken explained, there are different processes happening in a tank all the time so pH levels can change at different parts of the day but the higher the nitrate level goes, the more acidic the pH will become.
I'll make this suggestion: Either get a liquid Hardness test kit or have both your tank water and tap water tested for KH. IF your lever is low ( at or below 70 ppm) you need to do more frequent water changes to help keep the alkalinity level high enough to keep the pH from falling or you will need to add a buffering agent ( i.e. Baking soda, Epsom salt) to the water however, both of these . will also raise pH which you don't need to do with the pH level of your tap water. Here's the deal however, doing water changes, you know what you have going back into the tank. By using chemicals to add alkalinity, you risk adding too much that it may effect the fish negatively or too little and it does nothing. This is why water changes are usually the safest method of changing water parameters.
If your KH is above or near 150 ppm, test your water at the same time of day every 2-3 days until you see the pH in your tank start to fall. Count how many days for that to happen and you will know you need to do water changes before that number of days to keep your pH levels more stable. ( You also need to watch the nitrate level so that it does not go above the 40 ppm suggested high limit.)

Hope this helps.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Ok. Thank you. So GH/KH test kit first. Then take it from there? In the meantime some more water changes? Also I’m in no way trying to oversimplify everything both of you said, I’m just trying to take the next step. But I appreciate the explanations for everything. Thank you for that.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Just a side note, I do not have a planted aquarium. All artificial. Just providing more details of the tank for reference.

 

[Andy Sager]

Just a side note, I do not have a planted aquarium. All artificial. Just providing more details of the tank for reference.

That just means there is no natural methods of reducing nitrates. It's not going to make a difference in your hardness or pH levels unless there is metal in the plant that is rusting.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Latest update… tested water again today.. pH dropped some more. Now it’s closer to 6.0. Also, I bought the GH/KH test kit.. both seemed to show a level of about 71.6 ppm. Not sure what I should be doing (if anything at all) aside from more water changes. Last time I checked my tap water pH, it was 7.0, and that was about 2 weeks ago when my tank pH was about 6.4. All artificial plants in the tank. My other levels are as follows:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 - 10
The only thing that’s different is I started using a different brand of freeze dried shrimp brine. But I’m not thinking that would have any impact on this.

 

[Andy Sager]

Latest update… tested water again today.. pH dropped some more. Now it’s closer to 6.0. Also, I bought the GH/KH test kit.. both seemed to show a level of about 71.6 ppm. Not sure what I should be doing (if anything at all) aside from more water changes. Last time I checked my tap water pH, it was 7.0, and that was about 2 weeks ago when my tank pH was about 6.4. All artificial plants in the tank. My other levels are as follows:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 - 10
The only thing that’s different is I started using a different brand of freeze dried shrimp brine. But I’m not thinking that would have any impact on this.

How often are you doing water changes and how much are you changing each time? I previously suggested you test the water 2-3 days after you changed water to see if the pH had fallen. Are you doing that? If so, you should be doing a water change the day you see the pH starting to fall so that you don't have drastic swings. There is no singular time frame to how often you need to change water. You change it when it changes. You want consistency as much as possible. Your KH level is moderately hard so there is no reason why a water change isn't adding enough buffering to keep the pH up.