Creating a self-sustaining goldfish aquarium - is it possible?

[thefishtankman]

Hey guys,

My Girlfriend got me some goldfish as a gift for Christmas. She had no clue about how to raise goldfish, so everything she got me was inadequate to house goldfish because of the tank size (she got me 2 goldfish in a half a gallon tank LOL).

Anyway, after upgrading to a 50 gallon tank and buying a CRAP ton of stuff, I began to think of ways to make my tank more self sustainable - without the use of loud filters and air pumps.

My question for you guys/gals is this: is it possible to create a self-sustaining tank that doesn't need any input from the keeper for 2 month stretches(without using filters or air stones)?

Here are my thoughts (I have 5 goldfish about an inch and a half in length):

Oxygen - a bunch of Amazon swords, anubis plants

Ammonia filtration - plants, then a good amount of those ammonia absorbing rocks.

PH - anyone have any ideas for that?

Food - brine shrimp colonies. I read the goldfish will kill the colony before they have time to reproduce but I was thinking of making some sort of contraption the shrimp can live in without the fish being able to eat them - and then place it under my plants.

I think the biggest problem is going to be the ammonia filtration.

I realize that 50G tank is not big enough to be able to accomplish this, but what about a 100G or even 150G?

I also realize that creating a self sustaining tank is almost impossible - I'm simply trying to figure out different things I can do to make it go longer stretches without input on my end.

Thank you everyone

-Jeff

 

[jlk]

Just my opinion here, but unless you want a HUGE, heavily planted tank this is going to be very, very difficult. If this is something you would like to attempt, you should consider doing an outdoor pond instead but even this will need maintenance & filtration. You will have ammonia/nitrite/nitrate considerations, oxygen needs, your goldfish will devour your plants in their need of daily vegetation, and their dietary needs for daily protien (and other essential nutrients, vitamins, minerals) will not be fulfilled through the shrimp alone (which will be devoured long before they can reproduce). Interesting idea but this present scenario would probably not succeed very successfully especially in a 50gal tank with goldfish due to their high bioload, high oxygen needs, & dietary concerns. Are these goldfish fancies or commons/comets? Your still overstocked with 5 goldfish- how severely will depend on the type of goldfish.

 

[thefishtankman]

Just my opinion here, but unless you want a HUGE, heavily planted tank this is going to be very, very difficult. If this is something you would like to attempt, you should consider doing an outdoor pond instead but even this will need maintenance & filtration. You will have ammonia/nitrite/nitrate considerations, oxygen needs, your goldfish will devour your plants in their need of daily vegetation, and their dietary needs for daily protien (and other essential nutrients, vitamins, minerals) will not be fulfilled through the shrimp alone (which will be devoured long before they can reproduce). Interesting idea but this present scenario would probably not succeed very successfully especially in a 50gal tank with goldfish due to their high bioload, high oxygen needs, & dietary concerns. Are these goldfish fancies or commons/comets? Your still overstocked with 5 goldfish- how severely will depend on the type of goldfish.

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate your thoughts on this.

The 5 goldfish are all fancy goldfish: 2 oranda, 1 more, 1 common fancy, and 1 red ryukin(spelling?)

I know I'm probably going to need a 100 gallon tank for these guys pretty soon.

As far as oxygen needs are concerned, how many plants per fancy goldfish are sufficient to produce enough O2 and filter out CO2? What plants do you recommend that go well with goldfish that also produce a lot of oxygen?

I have an Amazon Sword that seems to send a bubble to the surface every minute or so - I think that's pretty cool. Any suggestions on plants that send up a lot of bubbles?

Thanks so much for all the tips you've given so far!

 

[laurelhed]

I'm certainly no fish expert, but as I have recently had a harrowing crash course in goldfish, I can tell you that they will eat ANY plants you put in with them to the ground. And the ammonia output alone of goldfish is a serious consideration. I was filtering 250gph for a 20 gallon tank with 6 goldies, once or twice daily 50-70% water changes, and could not keep up with the ammonia and nitrite! Mine were all between 2-3 1/2", common, comet & mixed. They are now, happily, in a large backyard pond. But your idea is really cool.

 

[jlk]

Thanks for the info! With five fancies in a 50g, you can get away with this short-term as long as you are religious about big water changes (as in 2-3xwk). The amount of waste/ammonia they produce is huge. Even if your bacteria can handle the bioload, the second issue would be the amounts of nitrates being produced.

The moor, ryukin, & oranda are particularly sensitive to high nitrate levels- the lower you can keep them, the healthier your fish will be (as in 10ppm or less). I keep my tanks planted with my goldies- they are very well fed & get daily veggies to help keep them from eating the plants. But, even with well planted tanks, the nitrate levels still rise very quickly. Im experimenting now to see if theres some combo of plants (that wont be eaten) that may help keep these levels in better check. Fast-growing plants are the best options- hornwort, wisteria, etc. Tiger lotus is supposed to be an excellent nitrate absorber (growing some right now) for goldies because they are supposively not interested in eating it. I also add water lettuce & water hyacinth in the summer months (only time i can find it cheaply) but goldies devour the roots & eventually kill them.

Im going to ty & post a link to goldfish plants- if it doesnt work, check out this site 'The Goldfish Keepers' & check out their forum- they have a section on planted goldie tanks as well as alot of good general info on their care, feeding, & water changes. If you have any questions, please dont hesitate to ask!

http://www.goldfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3590

 

[jlk]

Sorry- the link didnt work! Just go to The Goldfish Keepers forum & look under 'goldfish vs plant' section of the forum & you will find a list of goldfish-suitable plants.

 

[HooKooDooKu]

...If this is something you would like to attempt, you should consider doing an outdoor pond instead ...

That was my 1st thoughts.

I've been doing so research lately because I want to build a half-whiskey barrel pond. Obviously discussions of ponds eventually leads to fish. The research I've come across talks about how little pond fish need to be fed because they can usually find what they need from the pond itself.

Of goldfish are going to need something bigger than a whiskey barrel, as my calculations show a half-whiskey barrel is about equal to a 20g aquarium. So for self-sustaining gold fish, you'll need something much bigger.

But it should be possible without pumps, filters, or "ammonia rocks"... if the pond is big enough.

In the case of ponds, the number I've seen quoted is that you don't need filtration or air stones if you have 5g of water for each 1" of fish. (Of course that is as "good" as the 1" of fish for each 1g of water often quoted for fresh water aquariums).

But the idea is that you don't have to explicitly have a filter to get rid of ammonia so long as there is enough stuff with surface area (plants, rocks, etc) that the ammonia-eating bacteria grow and thrive on these surfaces to do the job a "filter" normally does. After all, the reason bacteria usually thrived in a fish tank filter (after cycling) is because that is the one spot where ALL the water in the tank eventually passes by... so the bacteria is going to naturally grow where the ammonia goes.

 

[Mr.Pleco]

To be honest though if you were going to spend the money to get a tank that's 100g or more the last think I would want in there is goldfish. I'd die if that's what was in my tank ha.

And to be honest...I know everyone says you need a bigger tank for that many goldfish...but I just got done testing my water in my 15g goldfish tank with 3 comets and 3 albino corries and the water is fine other than nitrates. They are around 40ppm and I don't do water changes very often.

I buy Special Blend..it's a beneficial bacteria supplement you can find at Petco. Helps a lot.
It can be done with seeded material...which I used...

 

[chagoi]

Unless the goldfish are ceramic IT won't work.

 

[Mr.Pleco]

Unless the goldfish are ceramic IT won't work.

It can be done (with comets, idk about any other goldfish)...I'm doing it now. They have been in the tank for a year now with no problems at all.

Yes, it won't work long run but it can work until they out grow the tank. I think I'd have dead fish by now if it wasn't possible.

 

[jlk]

It can be done (with comets, idk about any other goldfish)...I'm doing it now. They have been in the tank for a year now with no problems at all.

Yes, it won't work long run but it can work until they out grow the tank. I think I'd have dead fish by now if it wasn't possible.

Fancies are delicate creatures & require alot more care than most fish. You should reconsider your tank situation- 3 comets in a 15g will eventually be a death sentence for your fish. Please google 'goldfish stunting' if you would like to learn for yourself what happens to goldfish kept inadequate conditions. If you dont wish to care for your fish responsibly, you should consider rehoming them to a pond where they belong.

 

[Mr.Pleco]

Fancies are delicate creatures & require alot more care than most fish. You should reconsider your tank situation- 3 comets in a 15g will eventually be a death sentence for your fish. Please google 'goldfish stunting' if you would like to learn for yourself what happens to goldfish kept inadequate conditions. If you dont wish to care for your fish responsibly, you should consider rehoming them to a pond where they belong.

I'm well aware of stunting...but they are still growing and are perfectly fine. I keep an eye on them since they aren't in my room.

 

[jlk]

You have had them in this tank for over a year, correct? How big are they now? They should all be well over 6inches by now. The majority of goldfish growth occurs in the first two years of life. Stunting is not reversible.

 

[DragonFish71]

Hey folks, this is not your thread. Please cease this hijacking and start a new thread.

 

[jlk]

My apologies!

 

[Koikid88]

Comets are one of the biggest, dirtiest goldfish. Definitely a pond fish and needs much more than 15g. My comets use every inch of the pond, unlike the koi and other goldfish, and dart around faster than the rest.

As for a giant planted tank, don't plants take in the oxygen from the water when there's no light source? It can only work in a pond because of how much water surface area there is, and because of natural elements. Besides, others are right in saying they will devour plants that aren't hard stemmed pond plants.

Also, like a pond, water evaporates and rain replaces it. So in an aquarium, if you don't check it for 2 months, you will have a quite a bit less water than before unless you add water, meaning there is maintenance. I don't think it will get to that point seeing how dirty goldfish are, the water would be poison in no time without filtration

 

[thefishtankman]

Comets are one of the biggest, dirtiest goldfish. Definitely a pond fish and needs much more than 15g. My comets use every inch of the pond, unlike the koi and other goldfish, and dart around faster than the rest.

As for a giant planted tank, don't plants take in the oxygen from the water when there's no light source? It can only work in a pond because of how much water surface area there is, and because of natural elements. Besides, others are right in saying they will devour plants that aren't hard stemmed pond plants.

Also, like a pond, water evaporates and rain replaces it. So in an aquarium, if you don't check it for 2 months, you will have a quite a bit less water than before unless you add water, meaning there is maintenance. I don't think it will get to that point seeing how dirty goldfish are, the water would be poison in no time without filtration

You got me thinking...

What if you set up a de-humidifier near the tank? I bet that would replace water faster than it can evaporate. If you add in some sort of over-flow
feature to let that water drain out of the aquarium when it overflows (thereby continually diluting the ammonia filled water with fresh new water brought in by the de-humidifier).

I wonder if that would also produce enough water circulation to take care of part of the tanks O2 needs. Coupled with a hardy amount of plants... it just may be enough. If you add a UV light on a timer, some sort of automated feeding system, etc. etc....

I bet with the right combination of machinery and using nature to do some of the work, you could make a tank pretty self sufficient for a good stretch of time.

 

[jlk]

Feel free to experiment with trying this but just dont try it with the fancies- they wont survive. There is a thread on here somewhere in respect to someone trying experiments with self-sustaining tanks with some small, hardy fish. Its a very interesting read- do some searching & you will find it.

Fancies are delicate creatures & are prone to all sorts of health problems without having water quality being added to the mix to complicate things further. Take care of them and they can live for 20 yrs or longer.

 

[Monkey Magic]

My brotherdid it. He hasnt got a clue about fish he just put in franklin a comet never fed him never changed the water never really paid much attention to him at all then after about a year and a half he bought voldemort (comet also) and about 6 months later they both died strangely enough after someone cleaned the tank... This wouldve been a2-3gal tank

 

[HooKooDooKu]

My brotherdid it. He hasnt got a clue about fish he just put in franklin a comet never fed him never changed the water never really paid much attention to him at all then after about a year and a half he bought voldemort (comet also) and about 6 months later they both died strangely enough after someone cleaned the tank... This wouldve been a2-3gal tank

Yea... they didn't know what they were doing, and in the process of cleaning the tank, they killed the beneficial bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrates and as a result killed the fish from ammonia poisoning.