Egg Sac Rupture During Hand-Stripping in Oranda Goldfish

[osama alamss]

Hi everyone,
I have a pair of oranda goldfish that have been together for the past three months. For the last two months, the temperature was stable between 25.5°C and 26°C. As of the 17th of this month, I turned off the heater, so the temperature is now a steady 21°C at room temperature.

Their diet is balanced, the tank has plants and good filtration. I’ve noticed that the male only chases the female lightly when the filter is off, and it lasts about a minute. Once the filter is on, they swim normally again.

A couple of months ago, we had an incident where the female’s egg sac might have burst when checking for eggs, and she released a few eggs afterward. I’m curious if anyone has had a similar experience and how long it took for the female to recover and spawn naturally again.

Any insights would be really helpful!

 

[Andy Sager]

An ovary burst is quite unusual. It can be caused by injury or by an internal parasite breaching the membrane. I don't think there really is a way to tell whether the sac has healed or not without doing an X-Ray or surgically. If the incident months ago made her release unusually small eggs, I'd say the pressure of being handled may have just forced out some eggs. If the eggs released were of the typical spawning size, she most likely was getting those eggs ready to spawn and was just waiting for the right conditions to spawn. So I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that her ovary had burst.
Moving forward, if you are planning on breeding them, when you can get a consistent temp of 22c-26c, set them up in a separate spawning tank with light filtration via sponge filters and add some spawning mops or frilly plants for them to scatter the eggs into. Keep in mind that goldfish need a period of roughly 1-2 months of colder water ( 19c-20c) for them to start getting ready to spawn when the temps rise.

Hope this helps.

 

[osama alamss]

An ovary burst is quite unusual. It can be caused by injury or by an internal parasite breaching the membrane. I don't think there really is a way to tell whether the sac has healed or not without doing an X-Ray or surgically. If the incident months ago made her release unusually small eggs, I'd say the pressure of being handled may have just forced out some eggs. If the eggs released were of the typical spawning size, she most likely was getting those eggs ready to spawn and was just waiting for the right conditions to spawn. So I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that her ovary had burst.
Moving forward, if you are planning on breeding them, when you can get a consistent temp of 22c-26c, set them up in a separate spawning tank with light filtration via sponge filters and add some spawning mops or frilly plants for them to scatter the eggs into. Keep in mind that goldfish need a period of roughly 1-2 months of colder water ( 19c-20c) for them to start getting ready to spawn when the temps rise.

Hope this helps.

Hello Andy,

Thank you very much for your helpful response, and for being one of the first people to reply to my post. I really appreciate your time and guidance.

I would like to provide the full details so you have the complete picture:

When I first bought my fishs and placed them in a large tank (around 80 cm), I wanted to determine the sex of each one. While examining the female by pressing on her, I felt a clear internal “pop,” like a balloon bursting inside her belly under the water, and no eggs came out. I got worried and immediately returned her to the tank.

Later on, I noticed the male chasing the female in the same large tank where she was living with five males. At that point, I took her out again and gently pressed to check—this time three eggs came out. This was a positive sign that she was still capable of producing eggs.

After researching online, I learned that it's better to move the female to a dedicated breeding tank, especially since five males were putting too much pressure on her. So I isolated her in a smaller breeding tank. I started testing the males one by one by placing each male with her for a few hours to see who would show strong spawning behavior. Some males showed brief chasing behavior, especially when the filter was turned off, but it only lasted 30 seconds to 2 minutes, and then stopped completely.

Since no spawning happened, I decided to isolate the female alone for one full month so she could develop eggs calmly and without any stress. During this month, I maintained a stable temperature between 25.5°C and 26°C, and provided her with a rich and diverse diet including:

decapsulated artemia

dried worms

dried shrimp

dried vegetables

bull heart mixed with garlic and ginger

steamed egg with garlic


After that month, I introduced the best male candidate—the most active and mature male—and left him with her for two more months. The temperature and diet remained exactly the same during those two months. Still, no spawning occurred.

After completing these two months with the male (and the previous month when she was isolated alone), I decided to turn off the heater so the temperature could drop naturally. The tank is now following room temperature, which is currently around 19–20°C.

One final question:
I have three forms of filtration in the breeding tank:

1. A sponge filter


2. A powerhead with a sponge (strong water movement + oxygen)


3. An air stone



Could the powerhead or this filtration setup be affecting the spawning behavior?
Should I turn the powerhead on and off at certain times, or should I simply leave everything running normally and let nature take its course?

Thank you again, Andy. I appreciate your help.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hello Andy,

Thank you very much for your helpful response, and for being one of the first people to reply to my post. I really appreciate your time and guidance.

I would like to provide the full details so you have the complete picture:

When I first bought my fishs and placed them in a large tank (around 80 cm), I wanted to determine the sex of each one. While examining the female by pressing on her, I felt a clear internal “pop,” like a balloon bursting inside her belly under the water, and no eggs came out. I got worried and immediately returned her to the tank.

That "Pop" could have been the air bladder or potentially the breaking of a rib as well. What is keeping me from confirming the ovary being the answer is that if the ovary had burst, the eggs would have remained inside the fish and be get expelled from your pressure. When fish spawn, the eggs come out from the female exerting pressure on the ovary forcing the eggs out of the tube. If there was an open area on the ovary, that opening would be the most likely place the eggs would be coming out because it would have the least amount of resistance for the eggs to pass through. The good news is that should it actually was the ovary that popped, fish have 2 so she should still be able to spawn but you won't get as many eggs as if there were 2 active ovaries.

Later on, I noticed the male chasing the female in the same large tank where she was living with five males. At that point, I took her out again and gently pressed to check—this time three eggs came out. This was a positive sign that she was still capable of producing eggs.

From the other ovary.

After researching online, I learned that it's better to move the female to a dedicated breeding tank, especially since five males were putting too much pressure on her. So I isolated her in a smaller breeding tank. I started testing the males one by one by placing each male with her for a few hours to see who would show strong spawning behavior. Some males showed brief chasing behavior, especially when the filter was turned off, but it only lasted 30 seconds to 2 minutes, and then stopped completely.

Using a smaller tank for spawning is actually not the best because under " normal" circumstances, Goldfish lay A LOT of eggs and the milt from the male can really pollute a tank. You really want to use a tank at least 150 liters or greater for spawning these fish.

Since no spawning happened, I decided to isolate the female alone for one full month so she could develop eggs calmly and without any stress. During this month, I maintained a stable temperature between 25.5°C and 26°C, and provided her with a rich and diverse diet including:

decapsulated artemia

dried worms

dried shrimp

dried vegetables

bull heart mixed with garlic and ginger

steamed egg with garlic

This diet is not actually the best for goldfish. They need more vegetable protein than meat protein. Their digestive system is built for constantly eating of vegetable matter. It's hard for them to digest animal protein. What I would do is increase the number of feedings of flakes, pellets or sticks that are dedicated for Goldfish ( which are usually high in vegetable matter) , do 3-4 feedings per day and make 1 of those feedings one of the meat based ingredients you listed. Change the meat choice every day.

After that month, I introduced the best male candidate—the most active and mature male—and left him with her for two more months. The temperature and diet remained exactly the same during those two months. Still, no spawning occurred.

After completing these two months with the male (and the previous month when she was isolated alone), I decided to turn off the heater so the temperature could drop naturally. The tank is now following room temperature, which is currently around 19–20°C.

As I explained, Goldfish ( and Koi) need a period of cold temperatures for them to rest, rejuvenate, and prepare for the spring thaw for spawning. KOi actually do this with ice over their heads. If they don't get that cold, they don't usually want to spawn when the water warms. In a dedicated spawning tank, if the fish don't spawn in the first 3-5 days, they probably aren't going to and you'll need to wait for the next "spring " season after the winter. With that said, some of the other commercial goldfish breeders I knew could get their fish to spawn any time of year by controlling the water temps with water chillers to simulate winter whenever they wanted. This way, they didn't need to spawn all of their females at the same time. (A sneaky little trick but can be expensive for the home hobbyist. ) So it's that cold spell that is very important.

One final question:
I have three forms of filtration in the breeding tank:

1. A sponge filter


2. A powerhead with a sponge (strong water movement + oxygen)


3. An air stone



Could the powerhead or this filtration setup be affecting the spawning behavior?

Yes

Should I turn the powerhead on and off at certain times, or should I simply leave everything running normally and let nature take its course?

The breeding pair should not be in the spawning tank so long that a powerhead is even necessary. Stick to just a sponge filter and airstone and a larger tank.

Thank you again, Andy. I appreciate your help.

I'll say this as well, there really is no reason to sex a goldfish by squeezing looking for eggs. Here are some external guidelines to look for:
Male vs. Female goldfish vents
------------------------------ MALE--------------------------------------------- FEMALE

Feature	Male	Female
Shape	Concave (an "innie")	Convex (an "outie")
Protrusion	No protrusion; vent is flat or curves inward	Rounder and thicker; vent protrudes
Size	Narrower and more elongated	Rounder and thicker

If these characteristics are not visible or discernable on your fish, it probably means they are not sexually mature yet.
I've imported some amazing goldfish from Japan in the past where they spawned literally the first night they were placed in our tanks. ( It was the change in water temps. ) I used to breed Comets to feed my Oscars and they too would spawn within a day or two of being put in a spawning tank. My former neighbor was a Koi farmer and I used to help him move his breeders to his breeding pools then back to the ponds a couple of days later. This is how I know that if the fish are conditioned properly, spawning will happen quickly and it is messy.
I'd say that because of the diet and lack of proper prep for the fish, they are not in the best shape to spawn. I'd switch up the diet as recommended for a good 4-6 months and then try again the next spring.

Hope this helps.

 

[osama alamss]

Hello,

I really appreciate your engagement and continuous support, and all the answers you’ve given me so far. I’ve prepared a few questions based on your previous advice and the discussions we’ve had, and I hope you’ll kindly answer them whenever you have the time. I truly appreciate your cooperation.
...
1. Cold period duration:
Is a two-week cold period at 19–20°C enough to trigger the spawning cycle once I raise the temperature afterward?
And if I raise the temperature after two weeks and no spawning happens, should I repeat a short cooling period again, or is a longer cold phase necessary?

Additionally:
If two weeks of cold are enough and I start warming them up, how long after increasing the temperature should I typically expect to see actual spawning behavior?
For example, once the temperature is raised, does spawning usually begin within a few days, within about a week, or does it normally take longer?
I want to understand the approximate timeframe so I can know whether the attempt was successful or if I need to start another cooling cycle.


---

2. Cool-down period between spawnings:
If the female spawns once, how long does she usually need to develop a new batch of eggs before she can spawn again during the same season?


---

3. Behavioral signs:
After moving the pair to a larger tank (about 82 liters, 57×42.5×34 cm), with only a sponge filter, an air stone, a clay pot, and some plants, I observed that they are more relaxed.
The male now follows the female calmly, and sometimes they swim side-by-side very closely.

Is this behavior an early positive sign of spawning preparation, or do true spawning behaviors only begin after the temperature increase?


---

4. Repeating spawning within the same winter:
Since we are at the beginning of the winter season, is it possible for Oranda goldfish to spawn more than once during the same winter, or does each spawning require a full cold–warm cycle?

 

[Andy Sager]

Hello,

I really appreciate your engagement and continuous support, and all the answers you’ve given me so far. I’ve prepared a few questions based on your previous advice and the discussions we’ve had, and I hope you’ll kindly answer them whenever you have the time. I truly appreciate your cooperation.
...
1. Cold period duration:
Is a two-week cold period at 19–20°C enough to trigger the spawning cycle once I raise the temperature afterward?
And if I raise the temperature after two weeks and no spawning happens, should I repeat a short cooling period again, or is a longer cold phase necessary?

In my experience, a cold period of 1 to 2 months is necessary for the females to get ready to spawn. 2 weeks is less likely to have any major effect. It's only after that long "rest" period and the water raising in temperature that entices the females to want to spawn.

Additionally:
If two weeks of cold are enough and I start warming them up, how long after increasing the temperature should I typically expect to see actual spawning behavior?
For example, once the temperature is raised, does spawning usually begin within a few days, within about a week, or does it normally take longer?

The way it was explained to me, the fish will feel the gradual increase in temperature as a sign to prepare to spawn. When the temperature reaches the proper range for a consistent number of days, that will be their clue to spawn. When the temperature rises outside of the optimal breeding temperature, the fish will have little desire to spawn again.

I want to understand the approximate timeframe so I can know whether the attempt was successful or if I need to start another cooling cycle.


---

2. Cool-down period between spawnings:
If the female spawns once, how long does she usually need to develop a new batch of eggs before she can spawn again during the same season?

Spawning goldfish is all about the temperature. It controls everything the fish does. Typically you get one spawn a year because the proper spawning temps are short but with some goldfish, multiple spawns are possible. The trick to doing that is to have the post spawn " recovery" tank at the same temperature as the spawning tank. While in that tank, you need to recondition the fish with a lot of food including live foods like Brine Shrimp, Daphnia and Worms with the vegetable matter to help her prepare more eggs for spawning. Under these conditions, the fish may spawn again every 3-4 weeks. Again, once the temperature gets too hot or out of the spawning temps, she will not spawn again until after that rest and cool down. If you are going to try for multiple spawns per season, I'd use a different male for each spawn. That means do not put the male from the spawning pair into the same recovery tank as the female.

---

3. Behavioral signs:
After moving the pair to a larger tank (about 82 liters, 57×42.5×34 cm), with only a sponge filter, an air stone, a clay pot, and some plants, I observed that they are more relaxed.
The male now follows the female calmly, and sometimes they swim side-by-side very closely.

Is this behavior an early positive sign of spawning preparation, or do true spawning behaviors only begin after the temperature increase?

After the temp increase. Genetically, these fish are derived from Carp which is a schooling fish so it's not unusual for them to swim together from that.

---

4. Repeating spawning within the same winter:
Since we are at the beginning of the winter season, is it possible for Oranda goldfish to spawn more than once during the same winter, or does each spawning require a full cold–warm cycle?

Spring time is when Goldfish typically spawn so you want to mimic springtime temperatures. That said, the fish don't look at a calendar so they don't know Spring from Winter or Summer or Fall. They know/feel this temperature and that temperature. When you can control the temperature, you can make the fish do things they wouldn't normally do.

I'll add that the goldfish breeders I knew would keep their females in a separate tank from the males. This way there was no chance for a spawn they were not ready for. I did the same with my comets ( and most of the species I bred. ) This way, when I added the males and females to the spawning tank, spawning would happen rather quickly. If you have the ability, you want to have your tanks with the males and the females at the same cold temperature. After the cold period ( 19c-20c), start slowly raising the temperature, about 1°c per day, in both tanks. Once you get to 22c-26c, place the female and male into the spawning tank that is at that same temperature. If they were conditioned properly, they should spawn in the next 2 -3 days, maybe shorter. After spawning, place the female and male into the recovery tank that is also in that 22-26c temp range. After a couple of days, remove the male and start her conditioning again with the food and keeping that temperature. As I explained, if the temp in that recovery tank gets higher than 26c, you might as well place her back in the main holding tank ( after a few days post spawn rest) until the next temperature cycle that goes down to the 22c-26c range. Then you can try again.

Hope this explains things.