Fat Goldie

[Capt.Gorilla]

One of my large and old silver goldies became very "Fat" or swollen around its mid-section about 2-3 months ago (maybe longer).
At that Time I was told that it likely had a swim bladder infection and that there was basicly no chance of it recovering and that it would probably die soon. As it has been 3 or more months I am really starting to think that maybe this is something else that can be cured.
The swelling is about 2x the normal girth of the fish and extends roughly from head to tail.

Any ideas?

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

I just cut + pasted this from Goldfishinfo.com...great site if you haven't seen it. May or may not be what's making your guy swell up...but at the least, you can try the Epsom salts, see if that draws the puff out. Good Luck!


Dropsy: Dropsy is not a specific disease, but rather a condition where the fish's abdomen becomes swollen. It causes concentration of the fluids in the body tissues or cavities. This results in swelling of the fish's abdomen, thus creating a pinecone effect. The scales protrude from the body. A sudden swelling of the abdomen (scales may stick out) is known as acute dropsy while a slow swelling of the abdomen is known as chronic dropsy. The actual cause of this swelling could be one of several conditions:

Acute Dropsy - Internal bacterial infection can cause internal bleeding and thus cause acute dropsy.

Chronic Dropsy - cancer: In this case, the abdomen is slow to swell as the cancer affects the fish's internal organs. If the fish is not isolated in the early stages of the disease, it could spread to other fish that are being housed with the ill fish.

Chronic Dropsy - parasites: Internal parasites can cause dropsy(abdominal swelling) because they are rather large parasites or because of the damage they are causing with the fish's organs. The abdomen tends to swell over a period of time if the fish is infested with internal parasites. It is best to isolate the sick fish at once to help maintain the outbreak of disease with other fish!

Goldfish are said to be somewhat more prone to dropsy than other fish. In some cases it is caused by a Costia Infection. Be careful when making this decision. Some fish could be spawning. Symptoms: The body will have a general swelling with protrusion of scales. The eyes may even bulge. Treatment: Dropsy is not very contagious. The earlier it is caught the more likely treatment will be helpful. It is best to up the water temp to about 82-86 degrees and use epsom salts (1/8 teaspoon of epsom salts per 5 gallons) instead of aquarium salts because they will help the fish to lose some of the fluid that has built up. (It is common to think that salts would help, but in reality the fish is bloating and having a hard time ridding its body of fluid; whereas the epsom salts will "draw out toxins"). It is also wise to increase aeration since the temps will be higher. Water quality is very important at this time. This will have to be tried for about 2 weeks. Now if you think the fish is suffering from parasites you will need to treat for them first.

 

[jsoong]

Another good site for goldfish info is http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/home.html
Look under diseases & then dropsy

The keeper of the puregold list (Dr Solo) is also active in rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish and is a wealth of info, so you can try posting there as well.

One other thought, may be the goldie is just fat! Some of the fancy goldies - like pearl scales - are supposed to be egg shaped, and I've seen some that looked like baseballs with fins.

 

[Capt.Gorilla]

I don't know none of my other goldies were like that, and also I did win this particular one at a fair so it can't be that fancy.

 

[Allivymar]

*nods and agrees with sweets and jsoong*

It does sound like dropsy. I don't think goldies hold onto eggs that long so I doubt thats the issue. I remember your other fish were quite ill; its possible whatever affected them is also affecting this one (one of the causes of dropsy is systemic infection). I forget; are or did you treat with antibiotics? I might do another round (if you already did one) with this one in QT AND do the epsom salt tx as well.

 

[Capt.Gorilla]

This goldfish became swollen Well before the recent lapse in my aquariums health.
I will move her if nessecary, luckily i have a 20 gal backup.
I have not given them any anti biotics other than Melafix as it turns out all the problems recently have been the product of ammonia.
What anti-biotics would help to combat dropsy and also I have never QT'ed a fish before, how sould I prepare the temp home?

 

[Allivymar]

Check out the link jsoong gave and follow the dropsy link. Theres a great explanation of dropsy treatment with pics. A broad spectrum antibiotic is recommended; I'm unfamiliar with the one used in the pictorial, but tetracycline or kanacyn are good choices. Also check out goldfishinfo.com as sweets suggested; great site.

As for a QT tank, you'll need the tank *grin* which you have, a filter, a heater and an aerator if the filter does not agitate the surface (if its a HOB you may not need one). I just set up a QT for some new fish; the only other things I added were a plastic plant and a plastic rock so they would have something to hide behind if they had a need (plastic so I can sterilize it with bleach if its necessary). No substrate. Add dechlorinated water and match water temps and thats about it. In my case I added some Bio-Spira so I don't have to cycle the tank, but I am not treating for any disease atm, just quarantining new fish. In your case however, theres a good chance the antibiotics will kill off any nitrifying bacteria; you may need to do daily water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite levels down.

 

[Capt.Gorilla]

Thanks I'll get started today.

 

[jsoong]

Just one note on fancy vs. regular goldfish:

Fancies mostly have double tails, and they tend to be short & fat.

Single tail varieties, like the common, comet, or fancier single tails (shubunkin, etc) are supposed to be skinny or topedo shaped.

 

[Capt.Gorilla]

Turn this guy silver and make his face blunter and you basically have what mine look like, other than a fat (and now kinda lumpy) abdomen.

 

[jsoong]

That looks like a common or comet to me!

Here's a pic of a pearl scale, note the double tail, like a butterfly wing, and the fat tummy!

 

[jsoong]

oops: hit that picture button twice!

 

[Capt.Gorilla]

Ok, my fish is QT'ed feeding fine and seems fine.
Also upon more reading I think that my fish might be a subject of egg binding rather than dropsy but i'm going to continue treatment.
I only think this may be the problem because she seems healthy and the fact that the other 3 goldfish she lived with were males.

I'll just toss this here too.
Egg Binding During their spawning egg binding can occur. In a natural environment, a fish releases its eggs during the spawning cycle. However, if the fish cannot for some reason or has not found a suitable mate, or has been fed a poor diet, water conditions are not adequate, a fish may not be able to release its eggs. The result being a build up of eggs, causing the fish to look bloated in the stomach or belly region. ( Do Not confuse this with Dropsy) The main difference between dropsy and egg binding, is dropsy bloats the entire body, causing the scales to protrude. See photo Usually egg binding is only seen in freshwater aquarium fish.

The best prevention is providing adequate water and tank conditions, and feeding your goldfish properly.

Symptoms: The fish is severely bloated in the belly not the whole body. The fish may be lazy or lethargic, show signs of rapid breathing, and have a loss of appetite.

Treatment: No medication is available for the treatment of egg binding. Attempts to squeeze the eggs from the body will usually damage the internal organs of the fish (in an individual who does not know what they are doing). So, the best course of action to take is to let the body absorb the eggs naturally.

Another suggestion is to siphon water from the main tank and mix in one tablespoon of Epsom salt for every one gallon of water and place an airstone in the bucket. Cover the top and leave the fish in the bath for 15 minutes each day until it shows improvement!

 

[Allivymar]

Ahh, good thing to know Capt. Thank for sharing