Fin rot + Columnaris taking over whole tank, best options?

[grimlock3000]

My 10g tank has been a mess from the start. The local pet store had me overstocked from day one and since then I have dealt with an uphill battle to keep the water clear/safe and Columnaris infection (in which I only lost one fish). I setup my 26g tank, and moved a few fish into it to from the 10g. Once the bio filter caught up, I was going to move a few more over and leave just a few fish in the 10g. I change 25% of the water in the tank every 5 days with a gravel vac.

On the day I was finally going to move more fish out of my 10g tank, all heck broke loose. Both of my Gouramis have the white fuzziness indicating Columnaris, one Tetra has rotting fins, the other Tetra is missing almost all his fins from getting beat up a while ago, one Oto Cat and one Cory Cat have some whiteness as well, which could be normal discoloration. This all happened very rapidly. The only fish that look OK are one each of the Cats, and the Guppies which are all babies and maybe .75 inches long each. QT tank is a 2.5g which is good for one, maybe two fish, so I do not have that as an option.

I am two days into treatment with Tetracycline. I have done water changes both days, and added the correct ammount of Tetracycline back into the water each time to keep the dose correct. My Gouramis are clearing up and have less white fuzz on them, but look really weak. The Guppy babies harass the Gouramis constantly and drive them to the bottom of the tank. The other fish are acting normal, but appear to not be getting any better or worse with the Columnaris.

Aside from following the reccomended dosing of medicine, what else can I do? Should I raise the temp (it is at 79 now)? What about adding more salt, there is currently 1 tablespoon in the tank? Maybe if I blocked all the light to the tank the fish would relax while the medicine worked?

 

[grimlock3000]

I raised the salt 50% and put the temp at 81F along with the Tetracycline. All fish are still alive headed into day four of treatment. No fish has visible fuzziness but one Gourami is breathing really fast so he might die soon and the other is still weak. I am changing 20% of the water every 12 hours.

My tank water is a horrible yellow mess and the water is foaming at the top. I lowered my water level because the foam was getting up in my hood. Same thing happened the last time I used Tetracycline to try and prevent Columnaris. This will be the last time I use Tetracycline for anything, next time anything happens I am going to use Maracyn and Maracyn 2 in combination.

 

[An t-iasg]

What kind of filter or aeration do you have? Adding medicines, plus raising the temp, may decrease oxygen levels of the water. Maybe that's why the one gourami is breathing fast. I've read that agitating the surface of the water will get some oxygen back in. I've read in some posts that some people lower their water level a bit so the filter return causes some more agitation of the water. That's too bad that the lfs got you started out badly. I hope everything works out!

 

[grimlock3000]

I have a AquaClear Mini filter (w/two sponges) and a generic air pump going to an air stone in the tank. The air stone is just pumping bubbles into a nasty pile of foam in one corner of the tank, luckily the power filter is stirring up the water quite a bit after dropping about 1.5 inches into the tank water.

Though I hate to say it, I really hate having to watch my fish suffer and think one of the Gouramis would be better off dead I hope he pulls through, but it is painful to watch and I do not see him getting any better through the treatment. The baby fish harass him constantly and he barely has the strength to swim so he can not fight back.

 

[An t-iasg]

Hi Grimlock, I have never had an airstone, but I really don't think they help as far as getting oxygen into the water. They may be nice for a pretty wall of bubbles, but I don't think they have any function in keeping the fish healthy. I could be wrong, though! The best way to get O2 in is with surface agitation, and you accomplished that with your filter and lowering the water a bit, so that's good.

I know what you mean...I hate watching sick fish too. I think, with all these medicines available -- surely it's within my power to do something --so why can't I help a little fish? I know it's hard, but you're doing all you can.

I have a few dividers on hand, becaue I had more than one betta in a tank before, but maybe you could stick a divider in to separate the gourami from the baby fish. You don't have to get anything fancy. I just bought a plastic needlepoint canvas for about 25 cents at the craft store. I did cut the frame of a 10 gallon divider to fit my 5.5 gallon tank, and put the needlepoint canvas in it, but you could just put the canvas in and push it into the gravel and the water pressure should keep it in place ok. Depending on how bad off the gourami is, maybe just removing that stress of the other fish would be just what he needs. Or if not, he can have a peaceful last day or two. Hope this helps some!

 

[cindywindy]

grimlock,

I am SO sorry to hear about your fish. Let's see if I can help you.

First of all, it sounds as if you have a fungal AND a bacterial process occuring in your tank. That is not all that uncommon given the overcrowded living conditions that your fish have been subjected to. I would recommend a primary medication for the bacterial infection (columnaris) with fungicidal properties that will help eliminate the secondary fungal infection such as any medication containing phenoxyethanol.

As an aside, the Tetracycline has probably taken a toll on your bacterial bed of your tank, and you will like see a residual ammonia/nitrIte spike in the very near future. Unfortunately, broad-spectrum antibiotics are effective on good bacteria as well as harmful ones, leaving you to reestablish your nitrifying bacteria all over again.

I would advise increasing the volume of water changes each time from 20% to 50%, taking care to vacuum the substrate each and every time to eliminate any decaying food and/or waste product accumulation that is responsible for life-threatening diseases. Water changes are never a bad thing and your fish will thank you for it.

I would also suggest that this could be a good time to evaluate your fishes' diet to be sure that they are receiving healthy, varied, nutrition that will naturally boost their white blood cell count to help them fight off this disease process. This should include a combination of flakes, pellets, worms, larvae, and algae/spirulina wafers.

Unfortunately, you "may" need to brace yourself to experience a loss of fish, gridlock ... but with the phenoxyethanol-based medication, increased water changes, and immune-boosting diet, most of your fish should make it thru this.

Hope this helps.

 

[grimlock3000]

The fish eat a combination of dried bloodworms, flake food, Bio-Blend, and sometime they get algae wafers and some Aquadine pellets. I think I have bought almost one of everything at the pet stores, so I try to mix up the feeding as much as I can. They do always get a little flake food each day so the baby Guppies can eat.

What is a medicine combination that I can use to clear up everything? Almost none of the meds are labeled by the active drugs they contain. I got the Maracyn and Maracyn 2 idea from a couple of websites that said the combination should take care of almost "everything".

 

[grimlock3000]

One Dwarf Gourami was dead when I got home from work. The one that is left is getting picked on by the babies since he is still weak. I hope he snaps out of it quickly so he can start fighting back and send the babies hiding in the Java Moss.

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

I'm sorry about your gourami

To answer your earlier question, the combination of maracyn and maracyn 2 cover a broad spectrum of bacteria (one works on gram postive bacteria, the other on gram negative). But antibiotics only work on bacteria. Often when you have a very sick fish, you have a number of things going on, only one of them being bacterial. You may also have ich (protozoa), fungal infections, and then any organ failures in the fish as a result of illness (dropsy or swim bladder problems). But getting rid of any bacterial nasties can sometimes help the fish out enough to fight off the other stuff.

Good luck with your guy...hopefully he'll be pushing those durn guppies around soon.

 

[grimlock3000]

All of the visible Columnaris has gone away, now my Tetras have their fin problem and the last Gourami is weak with some mild fin rot. I suspect one Cory Cat is still sick, but it is hard to tell when the fish sits around doing nothing for 50% of the day, then goes crazy the other 50%. I have never seen the Oto Cats move during the day, so it is hard to tell if they are OK since they only swim at night and I have to catch them with a flashlight.

I want to avoid just dosing the tank to death with meds, but would like to get this taken care of and get the fish healthy again. Is there a combintation of two medicines that I would use as a general cure all in my situation? Maybe something that does gram postivie, negative, and fungal? At what point do I use carbon to get the meds out of the water? Do I need to treat the tank until fins start growing back?

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

I'm not really an expert on treating fish (i've actually never had a sick fish...knocking on all the wood i can find), my knowledge is more from my science background...so all I can offer is my best guess. Hopefully someone will jump in with some better answers.

There are a ton of antibiotics, and generally they'll all pretty much kill bacteria. Bacteria can be divided into 2 groups, gram + and gram -...the difference is in their cell wall structure. Antibiotics are a little more complex than cell walls in their mode of action. For example, erythromycin (which is in maracyn) increases the rate of errors in the copying of genetic material...and works in bacteria, but not archaea or eukarya. Thats really just a complicated way of saying...there are a ton of antibiotics, and it's really tricky to pick the right one (if you take a look at DrsFosterSmith's selection you'll appreciate what i mean!). There are some that are considered "broad spectrum", meaning they will work on a larger number of critters, which are good for when you don't know exactly what you've got.

I don't really have any advice on treatment length. I don't actually really think it's a great idea to over-treat with antibiotics, I'm sure you've heard stories about "super bugs"...you really don't want to breed your own antibiotic resistant critters in your tank. I'd think you'd want to continue dosing after your fish shows improvement (just like with people) to make sure you kill everything.

Hmm....I really don't think i'm bein much help here...I'm sorry!!

 

[grimlock3000]

Oddly enough, I have learned more about antibiotics in the last week than I ever did when I worked in a pharmacy for a year

I have no idea where the line is between overdosing and doing the correct thing. I have some Maracyn that does gram+ and fungal, I am going to try adding that to the tank for a few days, and then clearing out all the meds this weekend. It should be exciting to see my fish in clear water again. After that, it will be water change, water change, water change... I can add some gravel from the 26g tank into the 10g to get some good bacteria in the tank.

 

[grimlock3000]

I treated the tank for 8 days total, all remaining fish have returned to normal behavior. I used carbon to clear out the water and I am also feeding the fish different items every day.

I am playing with fire though, because the remaining Gourami has what can only be described as an open wound by one of his fins. He swims and eats normal along with going after any Guppy that messes with him. I can not bring myself to sitck him in the 2.5g tank by himself since he is doing so much better. Hopefully he will heal the wound over soon.