HELP, angel fish sick

[mother2kamryn]

I just recently made a move and set our tank back up. let it cycle and so forth for over a week. never had angels before but figured we would try them. bought 4. one died of shock in first 24 hours. Its been almost a week. They all seemed to be doing fine....until..... my husband the fish lover(deaths only happen when he is gone) left for a week. now one of the angels. well nothing looks physically wrong not even sign of stress. no color change or anything but all day long fish is at top of tank. he wouldnt eat and acts like he cant swim downwards. all fins are moving just stays at top and wont come down or eat. acts like something is keeping him afloat. not on side or anything just at top.. someone please help me. this always happens when he leaves and i get blamed for being a fish murderer. any help is much appriciated. what is wrong with him?

 

[Allivymar]

Timing is everything eh mother2kamryn? Same thing happened with the hubby; I went away for a longish period of time, a fish keeled. I do know it wasn't him tho.

Coupla questions first. You say you let the tank cycle for over a week; what do you mean by that? Was there an ammonia supply to help build a good bacteria colony?

I'm guessing not; the first thing you need to do is to check water parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates). Theres a good chance the tank is cycling, and what I mean is the nitrogen cycle, not just water cycling thru the filter. If you're unfamiliar with it, take a peek here: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html . It will explain what the cycle is and why its so important to understand it if fish are to be healthy. Testing the water is always the first thing to do when there are signs of illness.

Also, I suggest doing a water change as well; chances are there is a level of ammonia in the tank (from the fish's respiration and waste) and it needs to be diluted. That may be enough to help the fish. You see, ammonia suffocates the fish, and they will hang out at the top of the tank as thats where oxygen exchange is and there tends to be more O2 up there.

Understand this may not be the complete answer, but its where I would start.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Also, not an expert..but where do you get your water from? Angelfish require very soft water. If you have hard water, the fish will just hang around, and float there. I ended up killing 2 before I learned this. I doubt this is your problem, but it was mine so I thought I would give my input. Best of luck with it.

 

[Allivymar]

Actually, unless they are wild caught, angels can handle a pretty wide variety of water parameters. Our domesticated angels are much more capable of dealing with harder water then their wild cousins. How hard was your water Devilish? It must be like rock to affect the angelfish! Heh, bet our African cichlid fans would love to be on your water supply

 

[mother2kamryn]

Allivymar I think that you may have hit it right on the nose about the amonia. I visited the website you recommended. and yeah that does seem to be my problem.

I'm not the fish expert. My husband is and I have no way to contact him. you guys are my only hope. I know very little. It said to do a partial water change. I didnt know how much so I did about 30%. does that sound about right? another question i have is how often should I do this. I dont want to go and durasticly change the water either. wouldnt that make shock another factor? I really dont want to loose any fish. i love them as much as my husband does. before the water changed the other 2 angels were doing fine but even my pleco's were hanging out at the top. any more suggestions is much appriciated. thanks so much!

 

[mother2kamryn]

aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh ok. the update is that my angel is now acting funny and since barely moving at top now my pleco has started to suck on him every once in a while.. this cant be good. its to late to go to the store. is there anything that i can do till morning. i have other tanks. should i set up one and put him in it? will he go into shock? what would the levels be like?

 

[An t-iasg]

Hi...until Allivymar can get back here, hopefully this will help -- Get one of your other tanks and put the angelfish in it. The angel will then not be so stressed out due to the pleco sucking on him! Make up the new tank water just like you do your tank water. If you have another heater, put it in the new tank too. When the temps. are the same, then transfer the angel; he shouldn't go into shock if the water conditions are the same as the tank. The ammonia may rise since this tank won't have any beneficial bacteria, but with just one fish it shouldn't be hard to keep on top of. Usually you do have to change "hospital tank" water frequently to keep the ammonia down.

If you have another filter, put it on too. Don't use any carbon in case you have to medicate later on. Just run the filter for some water movement and aeration. Water movement at the surface is what oxygenates the water -- important since the angel was already hanging out at the top of the tank.

Allivymar can advise about medicines, but the important thing to do now is get the angel away from the pleco! Good luck!

 

[mother2kamryn]

thanks for the response but its too late. i lost my angel. the only thing that i can do now is try to control the level in the tank to keep the other 2 healthy. how often should i do a partial water change in my tank to keep the amonia down while it is cycling? Thanks for all the advice from everyone.

 

[Allivymar]

Aww I'm sorry mother2kamryn That sucks.

You'll need to get a hold of testing kits; my guess is, since hubby is such a fish lover, he likely has the kits around somewhere. Take a peek and see if you can find testing kits for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. If you can't find them, you can either bring a sample to the lfs to check regularly, or bring one sample over for them to check and buy your own tests so you don't have to keep going over there. That will guide the water changes; IMHO, any ammonia levels over 1.0 requires a water change to dilute it, and how much to change depends on how much ammonia (more ammonia, more water to change, up to 50%). It will slow the cycle down somewhat (the more ammonia, the more good bacteria) but better to have live fish then a cycled tank IMHO *grin* Angels LOVE fresh water, so as long as its treated and temps are matched, it shouldn't be a prob; won't shock them unless pH is very different, and thats unlikely with frequent water changes.

And, well, to be a bit catty, why is hubby leaving you to take care of an uncycled tank without instructions or the things you need? Slap his hands for me when he gets home LOL

 

[mother2kamryn]

thank you all so much. and yes i will slap his hand when he gets home. this isnt the first time he has done this. last time he set it up and then left 3 days later. well he left it with me for 6 months that time. only prob i had then were my gourami's. but we bought those sick from what i can figure. In my opinion he should stay home and tend to his fish or edu me on every thing. I dont like learning things the hard way. thanks agian everyone

 

[mother2kamryn]

after reading the website that you refered me to it looks like its going to take between 20 days to 6 weeks before the amonia drops in the cycle. Am i really going to have to keep cycling and battling to keep my other 2 fish alive for that long? does every one have to do this? or is it just me? one more question. my angels are picking at my pleco's. is that normal? will it hurt them? ive never seen a fish pick at pleco's before.

 

[ferret]

The length of time required is based around a variety of factors.. The tank size, the number of fish and types, the filter, etc.

It could be as short as two weeks, and as long as 6 weeks. The general rule in cycling is to introduce fish in small groups. For example, when you first set up the tank, you would buy two fish known to be hardy, and put them in. They will produce a little bit of waste, but not much. The tank will 'cycle' to the level necessary for those two fish.

Then you'd get the next 2-4 fish, etc. Everytime a fish is added, the tank has to cycle again to catch up with the extra waste and ammonia being made. This process gets a little faster as you build it up. You may have to wait say 2 weeks after the first group before adding the second. But you might only have to wait 1 week before adding the third.

The key is to watch your ammonia and nitrites like a hawk. When you notice the ammonia is going down (At least below 0.25), check the nitrites. Chances are you'll notice they're up. Once they're down as well, you can add the next group of fish.

There's no set time frame for any of this, testing the water is the necessary key. As Alli said earlier, a good reference for water changes is when the ammonia reaches 1.0 .. I've slacked before and waited for 1.5. Sometimes it'll never get this high if you take your time. If you keep the level below 1.0 your fish should be fine, and within a fairly short while you won't have to change the water every day.

It is still suggested, again depending on tank size and the fish, to do routine water changes. This helps with the third chemical, nitrates. These don't ever go anywhere so you have to remove them. 20% is a good amount in most cases unless there's an emergency (Like your ammonia shooting up really high).

For my tanks, I do water changes for my 75 gallon and 90 gallon every week. I do 30-40% from my 75, and currently do about 33% from my 90 gallon. The 29 gallon I haven't done a change on in ages. I really should but all the parameters are fine and its the farthest from the sink ;p All of my other tanks get small changes every 2 weeks, about 10-15%. The smaller the tank and fish, in general, the less often you'll have to worry about changes.

I hope that helps some for your future fish keeping. Its a long post and a lot of information.

 

[mother2kamryn]

help, help, help help. i have done numerous partail water changes in the last 24 hours. my last 2 angels keep coming to the top and my pleco's are freeking out and comming to the top. same signs as the fish that died yesterday. I have a walmart that is about an hour down the road. What kind of meds could I get to help with the amonia. Im afraid I'm going to loose everything. Im also going to buy test kit. cant find any around here. please help someone. im clueless.