I;m a novice, please help

[thatlouguy]

I just bought and setup a 34 gal hexagon acrylic tank. I populated my fish tank with 6 black neon tetra, 2 rainbow shark, 2 albino rainbow shark, 3 platy and 2 blueberry tetra. All the fish were very frisky the first day. On the second day one of the black neon tetra looked like he got stuck behind a plant and then died. One of the albino rainbow shark seems to be very lethargic. The eyes look clear, I think. Any ideas?

 

[snapcrackler]

Hi and welcome to AA we are glad you found us.

Did you cycle your tank before adding those inhabitants?

 

[thatlouguy]

Yes. We followed the directions the aquarium store gave us.

 

[puffergirl]

Fist off Welcome to the site, you will find lots of helpful info here.

As for your tank inhabitants I would not recommed keeping that many sharks together. They are a very territorial species toward one another. I would only recomend 1, they do get quite large as well. My red tailed black shark is 15cm already. Keep an eye on them and if they start to chase each other I would either get more tanks or return some to your LFS. They will be much happier in the end.

 

[snapcrackler]

How did they recommend that you cycle your tank, fish or fishless? And what did you end up doing.

And what have you found your water parameters to be at this point as far as ammonia, nitrated and nitrites?

 

[tkos]

The first thing I would do is take a sample of water out of your tank and set it aside. Then do a good 20-30% water change using a good dechlorinator that also gets rid of chloramines (I use Wardley's).

It could be something as simple as a sick fish. Or else it could be ammonia or nitrite poisoning.

Take that water sample to your local fish store where you bought the fish and have them test it and let us know the results.

 

[Allivymar]

Hiya thatlouguy and welcome to Aquariumadvice

I have a feeling we are talking about 2 different things when we are talking about cycling. Here, when we say cycling we are talking about the nitrogen cycle and not water running thru the entire system. If you haven't read up on the nitrogen cycle, I strongly recommend this website; the cycle is KEY to keeping healthy fish: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

You'll want to pick up ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/pH tests to check your water; this way you'll know if you need to change any and dilute the levels of poisonous nitrogenous waste.

Also, I strongly recommend a QT tank. I'm guessing you added all the fish together. That can be a prob; even when fish look healthy in the store, there is no guarantee they are actually disease free. Its best to buy a few at a time, and quarantine them for a couple of weeks to be sure they aren't carrying anything. Its much easier to treat sick fish in a QT tank then in the main; you aren't exposing your established fish to disease, and you won't mess up your good bacteria (see the website I gave for an explanation on the good bacteria).

My guess its one of 2 things going on in your tank. Either some of the fish were ill, and are spreading disease to the others, or the tank is starting to cycle and the levels of ammonia and/or nitrite are starting to kill the fish. Best place to start figuring that out is to get the tests and see what the water parameters are.

 

[thatlouguy]

Thanks for your help

Dear AA members,
Thank you all for your input and advice. Once again, as stated earlier, we are novices and are following the advice of our LFS people. We went to every LFS in our area and found these people to be the most straight forward and open to questions. We know nothing about cycling, ammonia, or nitrate levels. We set up our tank on Monday and were told we should add starter fish on Tuesday. The tank looks clearer this morning and the albino shark that was concerning us looks friskier. One rainbow shark has been chasing other fish since we got them, but doesn't seem to be hostile, just playful (if that is possible for a fish). All of the black neons have small silvery dots on them. I think the dots are increasing in number, but my wife thinks they are the same as they've always been. Could these silvery dots be a disease? None of the other fish have them. We were told to bring in a water sample next week and no other fish should be added for three weeks. We feel more confident about the tank today than yesterday. Once again, thanks for all your input and help.

 

[snapcrackler]

Everyone here is happy to help.


Those starter fish that you have are going to be the ones that will create the waste that will start the biological cycle. That means they are going to have to swim in ammonia until the nitros grow enough to process that ammonia and finish the biological cycle.

All of the fish they sold you (with ther possible exception of the tetras) are pretty hardy fish so they all might survive the ammonia spike OK. (Allivymar what do you think about those fish)

I'm gona concede to Allivymar at this point and watch how things progress.

 

[tkos]

Spots on a balck neon sound slike it might be ich. If that is the case then you will need to get treating it right away.

I don't knwo what the LFS told you about water changes but make sure to do them every few days in the beginning or else the ammonia levels will build up too high and kill your fish off. Eventually bacteria will grow in the tank and eat the ammonia (that is the start of the cycle).

 

[ScottS]

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32

Kill two birds with one stone. Raise the water temp to 86 degrees (see above article). This will kill the ich (again, see above linked article) and will help a little toward accelerating the good bacterial growth that are part of the nitrogen cycle.

If you don't have a test kit that checks for ammonia and nitrites at the very least, it's time to get one now. Until your tank fully "cycles," you'll have readings for one or the other or both. As long as you have readings, do daily, partial water changes. This will help alleviate your fishes stress.

Sounds like you received a bit of bad advice from the LFS. But once the tank cycles in a few more weeks, everything will settle down, and you can back down water changes to weekly or biweekly events and your fish will be much happier.

 

[tkos]

Great article. Definatley read it over. Those spots will quickly get to all of your fish.

 

[Allivymar]

Coupla things thatlou:

Your fish MAY be hardy enough to handle the cycle. Thats assuming they are all healthy, and you do frequent water changes to reduce and dilute the levels of ammonia and nitrites.

Its hard to say what the spots are without seeing them; can you get us a pic? In the meantime, do check the ich article to see if the spots resemble the ich infestations on that page.

 

[thatlouguy]

Tkos, Allivymar, ScottS and Friends:

Thanks for all the great and fast replies. A quick trip to our LFS confirmed we have Ich! Unfortunately, the tank at the LFS is infected and they didn't realize it until we went in. We picked up some Quick Cure, raised the temperature to 86 and, with some luck, that problem will be solved. (Good call Tkos). We also were given some Cycle which, we're told, will promote bacteria growth and reduce the ammonia and nitrate. Thanks again!

 

[Allivymar]

Just a heads up: Cycle is pretty useless. It doesn't have the correct bacteria for cycling a tank. Marineland did some studies not too long ago, and discovered the proper bacteria, promptly put a patent on it and sells it as Bio-Spira. If you can find that it WILL help cycle the tank. Unfortunately, the Cycle product really doesn't do much at all. I've used it once; never again.

Also, were you able to grab the test kits? Thats the most important thing you needed to grab during that trip. If you use the high temps (as per the article) you really didn't need the Quick Cure, and you know how I feel about Cycle LOL

 

[thatlouguy]

I guess we're gonna make mistakes along the way. It's sometimes the only way to learn. As long as it doesn't lead to any sick or dead finned freinds, we can absorb the little bits of bucks it costs. I've been using this Nutrafin large flake food that the LFS people advised. My fish would nibble at it. Today I tried a sample pack of TetraMix that came with the tank and the fish went nuts! They've never scoffed up food that fast. The LFS people we use were the most honest and unbias of all the different fish store folks when we were deciding what tank to buy. She also has over 20 years in the business so we tend to trust her, but that doesn't mean she can't be wrong about some things. We did pick up the test kit and, if we're using it correctly, shows the water within an acceptable range. I need to remember, this is only our new friends 3rd day in their new home. Thanks for the heads up

 

[thatlouguy]

Allivymar:

I just finished reading your well written and informative article on Ich. Having our tank for a short amount time, knowing next to nothing about the care of tropical fish and immediately having to deal with this potentially devastating disease, we would, of course like to do all we can to prevent this from occurring again. As you point out, a QT seems to be the first line of defense. I had also read your equally informative article on Angelfish which was going to be our first addition when our cycle is complete and we could start adding less tolerant species. I have may questions concerning establishing a QT. From what I understand, fish are an integral part of cycling. Since a QT is basically a temporary home for new fish, how do I go about establishing and maintaining a QT. Are there any articles you could suggest? Thanks

 

[Allivymar]

Oh an easy one! *grin*

QT tanks serve 2 purposes: quarantining new fish, and isolating sick fish. In both cases, there will some basic things needed: filter, aeration (if its not a HOB filter; the HOB filters usually cause enough surface agitation, which is what gets oxygen into the tank - those bubbles? Don't add any oxygen. They agitate the surface which improves O2 exchange), a heater. Thats pretty much it. I don't use any gravel or much decor (I will add a ceramic tube or a fake plastic plant if I'm QTing fish that need a hiding place). Its not there permanant home, so only the basics are needed. Plus, if there is disease, all those things are really easy to sterilise.

One actually doesn't need to cycle a QT tank. Most of use keep an extra bit of filter media in our main tanks; if we need to run the QT tank, we put that extra bit in the QT filter; instant cycle! This way theres no need to keep an extra empty tank set up all the time. Do keep in mind, if you need to medicate, the meds will likely kill off the good bacteria as well as the nasty ones, and the tank will cycle all over again. Is another reason having test kits are so important, and why its better to treat in a QT as opposed to killing off the nitrifying bacteria in the main tank.

Lastly we ALL make mistakes. When I started this obsession...erm...hobby *grin* I had 2 angelfish in an 8g tank and cycled the tank with them. THEN I added a common pleco. Didn't realise what I was doing wrong and had no idea the cycle even existed until the plec grew 4 inches in 3 1/2 months and I finally went and did some research. You're in MUCH better shape then I was LOL

 

[thatlouguy]

Thanks for replying so fast. Now all I need is for you to elaborate on some of the finer points, as if say... you were speaking to a 5 year old. When you say "Most of us keep an extra bit of filter media in our main tanks" it means?

I also bet your last paragraph would be hysterical if I had any idea what you were talking about. I'll be sure to keep it around so when I can understand it, I'll LOL!
Thanks

 

[Allivymar]

*grins* Trust me, in a couple of months you are going to look at that last paragraph and think I'm an absolute dork LOL

When I say keep some filter media in the main tank's filter, I mean the stuff that the the filters are made of; the stuff that the gook/detritus from the tank catches on. Could be filter floss (kinda like the stuffing in pillows) or filter sponge (self explanatory); whatever kind you use/need for the filter. The nitrifying bacteria colonise surfaces, and one of the places they are most populous is in the filter media (it has a huge surface area). I have an Emperor filter, and theres plenty of room for me to put an extra filter sponge; I keep an extra one in there and when I need to run my QT tank, I take that extra filter sponge and put it into my QT filter. The good bacteria come along with it, causing the QT to be instantly cycled You could even stick the filter media in the tank itself; the bacteria will still colonize it. I just prefer putting it in the filter as I figure it should earn its keep and do some filtering *grin*