Injured/sick pleco

[Vidaeus]

Hi all, in the last few days one of my Bristlenose Plecos has developed some kind of injury or disease that has started from its tailfin and seems to be spreading further up the body. You can see in the photos that it's turning the body/scales whitish and the fin has started to fall apart. Sometimes shrimp in the tank sit on the injured area like they are eating or cleaning dead flesh but the pleco doesn't seem to mind this. Any suggestions on what I can do to treat this? It seems to be getting worse, not better.

The pleco is probably around 4 years old and still moves around OK. I have another Bristlnose pleco of a similar age but it looks fine. I think the 2 bristlenoses are both males as they have fought a bit before in the past but it's never that bad and I haven't seen them injure each other much before. They don't seem to be fighting much at the moment and will sometimes sit beside each other. I also see what looks to be a physical injury to one of my corydoras, unsure if they're related but the cory still looks OK. I can't see any issues with any other fish in the tank.

The tank is a 200L / 50 gallon Aqua One tank which I have had for over 4 years with inbuilt top filter in the lid. The other tank inhabitants are:

• Various tetras (neon, glowlight, rummynose), around 35 added around 6 weeks ago
• Hengeli Rasboras - 12 added around 6 weeks ago
• Corydoras - 3 been there for 3 years
• Kuhli loaches - 4 been there for 3 years
• Cherry shrimp - hundreds been breeding in there for 3 years

I just tested my tank parameters and they are 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 30-40 ppm Nitrate, around 7.8 pH.
I change around 40-50% of the water weekly and do a gravel vacuum every other week.
I added most of the new tetras and rasboras around 6 weeks ago and moved house and hence moved the tank around 2 months ago but no changes to the tank since I added the new fish around 6 weeks ago.

 

[Andy Sager]

The Pleco looks like he's got a bad case of Fin rot and should be treated in a hospital tank with new clean water and an antibiotic. At a pH of 7.8, I'd use Kanamycin ( seachem's Kanaplex if you can't get straight Kanamycin.) The cory cat appears to have some rot as well on the dorsal fin unless the picture is just distorting what I'm seeing.
As for the nitrate level, while 30-40 PPM is and acceptable top level, bottom fish tend to not do as well at this level since it can actually be higher at the bottom and nitrate is an acid so it affects bottom fish more than mid and top level fish species. It's best to keep the nitrate level under 10-15 PPM at the bottom of the tank when you have catfish and the lower the better. With the live plants, you shouldn't keep the level at 0 but you don't need to keep it too high either.
If you need help with setting up a hospital tank, I address that in post #2 of this thread: Quarantine tanks and Hospital tanks, are they really different?

Hope this helps

 

[Vidaeus]

Thanks for taking a look and linking to the advice on hospital tanks.. I do have a second small 20L/5gal tank I can use as a hospital. It looks like I can get Kanaplex locally so I'll give that a go.
Would either/both API Pimafix or API Melafix be beneficial? Or would it maybe interact with Kanaplex or be too much medication?

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks for taking a look and linking to the advice on hospital tanks.. I do have a second small 20L/5gal tank I can use as a hospital. It looks like I can get Kanaplex locally so I'll give that a go.
Would either/both API Pimafix or API Melafix be beneficial? Or would it maybe interact with Kanaplex or be too much medication?

TBH, I've never used any of " fix" meds and from everything I've read online about them, they are more for very mild cases of anything where a simple water change would have done the same. I would just get the Kanaplex ASAP because rot that advanced can easily kill the fish. 5 gallons is not really a big enough tank because it doesn't hold 5 gallons of water. I'd use at least a 10 gal because most meds are premeasured for that amount of water. Measure out 5 actual gallons of water to the tank and mark the tank so you know if you are losing water to evaporation. ( I do this with all my tanks ) In the case of Kanaplex, it has a scoop and the full scoop is for 20 gallons of actual water I believe so even in a 10 gallon tank with 5 gallons of actual water, you only need to use 1/4 of the scoop unless you have a gram scale and you can measure out 45 mg. Because Kanaplex is an antibiotic, you shouldn't use it in your main tank as it may inhibit your nitrifying microbe bed.

Hope this helps.

 

[V227]

Andy, I think the bacteral infection has spread much to far to save the Pleco. The antibiotic might have worked if the infection was caught early.

All the light colored tissue is dead, and the tail has rotted to the point of no return.

The Corydora has a better chance of survival, but as you know, Columnaris isn't an easy fix.

 

[Andy Sager]

Andy, I think the bacteral infection has spread much to far to save the Pleco. The antibiotic might have worked if the infection was caught early.

All the light colored tissue is dead, and the tail has rotted to the point of no return.

The Corydora has a better chance of survival, but as you know, Columnaris isn't an easy fix.

This is where we differ. IME, as long as the fish is breathing ( within reason) , there's a chance. I've seen fish actually missing huge areas of skin and flesh and actually showing bones and still swimming among their school of fish. The back end of a pleco is more expendable than the front end and should the infection be stopped, I believe the fish, over time, has a chance of regrowing the dead tissue and tail. It won't be a quick heal and the fish may not look pretty for a while but at that point, the OP has options as to how they want to proceed.
The odds are that whatever the Pleco has most likely is what the Cory has so both should be treated as described making trying to cure the Pleco a no lose proposition. Just sayin'

 

[Vidaeus]

I did get a hold of the Kanaplex and moved both the Pleco and the Cory to my hospital tank (which does actually hold 20L/5gal like the label says, with about 1cm/ 0.5inch to spare. The Kanaplex I got is 5g and actually dosed for 1 spoon in 20L/5gal so perfectly suits my hospital tank.

Unfortunately the pleco didn't make it and died overnight I ended up fully emptying and cleaning out the hospital tank because it was cloudy and already had a bit of a rotting smell. I put the Cory back in and hopefully with the medication it will recover and be OK. It looks like the disease isn't nearly as advanced as it was in the poor pleco, it spread really fast up the tail. I've been sick over the last few days and mostly in bed as well so haven't been very attentive to the fishes which is why I didn't catch it earlier.

I also got some Seachem Denitrate to see if it can help address bring down my nitrates long term as per your suggestion Andy. If nothing else, it will add additional surface area as more media in my biofilter.

 

[Andy Sager]

I did get a hold of the Kanaplex and moved both the Pleco and the Cory to my hospital tank (which does actually hold 20L/5gal like the label says, with about 1cm/ 0.5inch to spare. The Kanaplex I got is 5g and actually dosed for 1 spoon in 20L/5gal so perfectly suits my hospital tank.

Unfortunately the pleco didn't make it and died overnight I ended up fully emptying and cleaning out the hospital tank because it was cloudy and already had a bit of a rotting smell. I put the Cory back in and hopefully with the medication it will recover and be OK. It looks like the disease isn't nearly as advanced as it was in the poor pleco, it spread really fast up the tail. I've been sick over the last few days and mostly in bed as well so haven't been very attentive to the fishes which is why I didn't catch it earlier.

I also got some Seachem Denitrate to see if it can help address bring down my nitrates long term as per your suggestion Andy. If nothing else, it will add additional surface area as more media in my biofilter.

Sorry to hear of your illness. Glad you are feeling better.
That's interesting about your tank being accurate. None of the tank brands I know of actually hold the amount of water they are described as. LOL
I just checked again and it looks like I too fell victim to bad info online because I didn't have a package of Kanaplex at home to check myself. This is just another example of why you really need to check, check then check again on another source for info online. The Seachem site does list the dose as 1 spoon for 20L/ 5 gallons. I saw the wrong sight again in my search tonight and it lists the dose as 1 spoon for 20 gallons of water. ( It was a company selling fish that has it all wrong and you'd think they would know better. This is why I prefer to buy my things in stores, not online, so I can ask questions and read directions first. ) Okay, rant over.

The pleco was in an advanced stage of decay and you may have had a better chance of curing it had you been able to treat it sooner. But that brings up, WHY did the fish get that infection to begin with? My guess is that it's a water quality issue and to be honest, using a product to remove nitrates is not as good as doing water changes. As I explained before, the water in the bottom of the tank is not always the same quality as in the top of the tank. I'd still make sure you are doing a water change at least weekly.
As for the Cory, you want to look for no more decay, no redness or fuzz on that fin to know the medicine is working.
Hope this helps and keep us posted.

 

[Vidaeus]

Thanks, actually the hospital tank is a cheapo no name brand I got from Kmart (Australia) a few years ago. The little kit is actually pretty good for the price as it came with a little pump and filter as well.

I am pretty good with doing weekly water changes, and don't really have the time to be doing it any more frequently. I could do a larger change each time and go for like 70% instead of the usual 40-50% ish?

I read that the Seachem Denitrate is actually a different type of bio media that helps develop the right conditions for anaerobic bacteria that actually eats the nitrate. So it's not like Seachem prime or other chemical product which is temporarily removing it or something I need to keep adding every week.

It should work in my filter setup which is a top mount drip tray that I have some ceramic biofilter beads in already, so it is already low flow. Don't really see any downsides in giving it a go, as if it doesn't work it just added more biomedia to the filter.

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks, actually the hospital tank is a cheapo no name brand I got from Kmart (Australia) a few years ago. The little kit is actually pretty good for the price as it came with a little pump and filter as well.

I am pretty good with doing weekly water changes, and don't really have the time to be doing it any more frequently. I could do a larger change each time and go for like 70% instead of the usual 40-50% ish?

If you are taking the water from the bottom of the tank, 40%-50% should be fine but the frequency should really be determined by the levels in the water. An over crowded tank may exceed a 40 PPM nitrate level in a couple of days while an understocked tank can go a whole 7 days. My concern is that pleco having such an infection even tho you are doing such large volume changes.

I read that the Seachem Denitrate is actually a different type of bio media that helps develop the right conditions for anaerobic bacteria that actually eats the nitrate. So it's not like Seachem prime or other chemical product which is temporarily removing it or something I need to keep adding every week.

It's a new product to me but I get the concept. I used to do refugiums on some of my systems.

It should work in my filter setup which is a top mount drip tray that I have some ceramic biofilter beads in already, so it is already low flow. Don't really see any downsides in giving it a go, as if it doesn't work it just added more biomedia to the filter.

From time to time, test water from just above the substrate and at the surface to compare them. That can also help show you if you have good circulation in the tank.

 

[Andy Sager]

Andy, I think the bacteral infection has spread much to far to save the Pleco. The antibiotic might have worked if the infection was caught early.

All the light colored tissue is dead, and the tail has rotted to the point of no return.

The Corydora has a better chance of survival, but as you know, Columnaris isn't an easy fix.

I just saw a reel on Facebook where a pleco ( looked like a Hypostomus) with no head, was still swimming around a tank. The fish swam into a rock and settled on the floor of the tank. The person put his finger at the front of the headless fish and the fish reacted and swam away. Those plecos are a tough fish.

 

[Vidaeus]

So it's been around 5 days the Cory has been in the hospital tank. I've given it 2 doses (one every second day) of Kanaplex as per the instructions. According to the packet I can give it one more tomorrow and that's it. It seems to be behaving normally and has been eating the small amount of food I've been giving it. I've also been doing 50% water changes just before dosing with Kanaplex.

However the diseased area now looks different and I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing. Previously it was a kinda darkish spot where it looks like parts of the scales and fins had decayed away. Now it looks like the area is kinda furry and there are lots of thin "hairy" strands lifting out. I'm not sure if it's healing and the old flesh/scales are lifting up or if it's getting worse.

 

[Andy Sager]

Unfortunately, the injury has now got a fungal infection. This is quite common with bacterial infections where an open wound exists. You need to treat that with Fritz Expel-F for true fungus infections.
I will say that I'm not sure why there is a shrimp in a hospital tank? A hospital tank should be as sterile as possible so nothing but the sick fish ( or sick animal whatever it is) should be in a Hospital tank as I laid out in my thread I posted in comment #2.

 

[Vidaeus]

Sorry the shrimp got caught in the net when moving tanks and I thought it would be ok to leave as it could help clean up any extra food. I can remove it back.
Looks like I can’t get hold of Fritz Expel F locally. But I can get hold of other anti fungal medication that contains malachite green or methylene blue like this. Would that be ok?

 

[Andy Sager]

Sorry the shrimp got caught in the net when moving tanks and I thought it would be ok to leave as it could help clean up any extra food. I can remove it back.
Looks like I can’t get hold of Fritz Expel F locally. But I can get hold of other anti fungal medication that contains malachite green or methylene blue like this. Would that be ok?

Not really. What you need is meds with Fluconazole. If your local shop has saltwater fish, see if they carry " Reef Flux". That is Fluconazole. If not, check out what they do have that contains Fluconazole.
Malachite Green and Acriflavin are good for bacteria but not for true fungus infections.