Loaches flashing?

[brenjen]

Hi - I dunno if anybody can help me or not, but am taking a shot! I have a 20-gallon tank with 1 angelfish, 1 dwarf golden gourami, 1 albino pleco (new), 2 swordfish, 2 dalmation mollies 2 HUGE clown loaches and 2 small botia(?) loaches (new). About a month ago, I bought the 2 botia loaches (not sure if that's what they are - the sign said "botia loaches" - they look like small zebras, black & white striped). They are just now starting to come out quite a bit and I have noticed that they both are very active and eating all the time, but don't know if what they are doing is normal for them or not. I am not sure exactly what "flashing" is, but thought this might be it - both botia loaches are going around and kind of like hitting or rubbing their sides on the bottom of the tank or plants - sometimes alone, sometimes together. Actually, I just now noticed one of the loaches has become somewhat sedate today - sitting on a leaf of a fake plant (I even thought they may be mating - hoping that's what they're doing!) My tank looks pretty good - I've had it for about a year - ammonia, nitrate & PH readings seem to look good, temp is about 78 degrees. I don't see any other problems with any of my other fish and these 2 look healthy - they are about 1-1/2 inches long. Any ideas/comments/suggestions? Thank you!

 

[Allivymar]

Hiya brenjen and welcome to Aquariumadvice

I'm guessing you didn't QT your new boties; 40 lashes with a wet noodle! Heh, now you know how important it is!

In the meantime, its quite likely your botias are carrying ich I strongly suggest you read the article I wrote in the article section on ich and how to treat it ( http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32 ); do know all the fish you have should handle the heat treatment well.

 

[brenjen]

Thanks much, Allivymar! I didn't see any spots on any of the fish, but just did a treatment with Ick Guard II and a 10% water change - also took out my charcoal. I have had such a time with my tank! I did have a biowheel (the one that came with the tank) on it and had problems with it stopping all the time. I dunno if my tank has ever even totally cycled - even tho I've had it for a year. My tank had been cloudy constantly, so I talked to a person at the fish store. They told me they thought my tank was too dirty (though I was vacuuming and doing 10-25% water changes every couple weeks - also changing the filter pad for the biofilter that often too, as it kept stopping because it was clogged up. I also was feeding every day. They told me to vacuum thoroughly over a week, doing small water changes - and also to quit feeding every day - so I started feeding every other day. Tank then cleared up. Filter kept clogging still, so I bought an Aquaclear 200 for my 20 gallon tank. Well, then I had a big fish loss about 4 months ago - most bottom feeders (I was BUMMED - lost a 6" pleco, 3 corydorys, about 4 frogs, 2 replacement plecos). I then talked to somebody at Petco - they told me they thought I was cleaning my tank too much - that my tank never really cycled. They checked the water, which they did say was fine! They told me to only do a water change, vacuum and change filter media about once a month, which is what I've been doing (I have 2 sponges and 1 charcoal pad thingie - I did away with the Ammorid as this works better). I haven't changed the sponges, just keep rinsing them in tank water. They also told me to use "cycle," which I did, and have been doing whenever I do the water change. My tank has never gotten real till just recently. I just now did check the ammonia (.25) and nitrate (40) levels - the nitrates went up quite a bit since a couple days ago, when I vacuumed & did a water change & charcoal change. The ammonia level has NEVER been zero. I use the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kits - ammonia, 130 tests - nitrate, 110 tests. I am just so confused with this tank. I have never quarantined fish, which I know I should do, but just don't have the room for a quarantine tank. I do have a 5-gallon tank also, which contains 2 platys, 2 headlight tetras, 1 corydory and 1 bumblebee goby (I had 4, but 3 have died), and I know this is bad, but a goldfish. I had my two tanks, and then my mom did away with hers, a 5-gallon also, in which she had the 4-inch & 6-inch clown loaches in it & the 4-inch pleco - so I got those fish from her so she didn't flush them! This is why I have the amount of fish I have. I'm now thinking about making the 5-gallon a quarantine tank since this problem I'm now having and moving all the fish (except the goldfish) into the 20-gallon. What would you do? I will list all the occupants in the tanks again so it's a little clearer:

20 gallon:
1 angelfish (about 2 inches)
1 dwarf gold gourami (about 3")
2 dalmation mollies (about 2" each)
2 swordfish (about 1-1/2" each)
2 botia loaches (about 1-1/2" each)
2 clown loaches (one is about 4", one is about 6")
1 albino plecostomas (about 1")

5 gallon
2 headlight/taillight tetras (about 1" each)
2 platys (about 1" each)
1 corydory (about 1")
1 bumblebee goby (about 1/2")
1 goldfish that won't stop growing (about 4" including his tail and fat)

HELP???!!!

Thanks! (I just don't know who to listen to in the pet stores anymore)

PS: Do you know if any of the fish in the 20-gallon would EAT the little bumblebee goby if I put him in there?

Also, when done treating for ick, would I probably be able to still use the charcoal I just replaced and took out temporarily? (I would think the ick would die out after being dried out?)

Another thing: I have a heater that came with the tank 100 watts - I think it must be malfunctioning as it has never gone over 80 degrees! It is usually 76-78 degrees, and this is turned all the way up - it came with the tank - a Marineland Dual-Temp 5-20 precision aquarium heater. So I am unable to get the heat up for the ick.

 

[Allivymar]

OK lessee...lots of info LOL where to start!

First off, don't add anymore fish. Your tanks are pretty much overstocked as is, and you definitely don't want to expose new fish to ammonia/nitrite problems much less disease. I also wouldn't move the bumblebee with the ich probs going on in the 20g. I suggest looking into a larger tank and doing some rearranging once we kick the ich!

Now the ich - go buy a new heater. Get one of the ones with the gauge on it so you can turn the temps to exactly what you want. They're a little more expensive but worth it IMHO. I suggest doing the heat treatment, especially since you are having cycling problems; meds will only make it worse!

As for the nitrite and ammonia problems; coupla things here. Firstly I suggest doing daily water changes of at least 25-30% until the ammonia and nitrite levels are zero. Both are deadly to fish and even at low levels can stress em severely. Stressed fish are fish with depressed immune systems and susceptible to disease. I would gravel vac twice a week tho; do one side one day, and the other side a few days later so as not to disturb the nitrifying bacteria in the substrate too much. Continue to rinse the filter media out in tank water; that will keep the bacteria in there alive as well. Quite frankly, one really can't clean out a tank too much, but one can disturb the bacteria colonies if they aren't established yet. With all those fish, once you are down to 0 ammonia and nitrites, I would do a water change at LEAST once a week since the tank is overstocked.

As for charcoal, unless one is removing meds or tints (like from driftwood) its unneccessary. In fact, its useless after a coupla weeks (even less if there is a lot of stuff in the water).

You really need to rethink your tanks and fish. The goldfish will need a tank by itself; it has very different needs from tropicals. Plus, goldfish need about 10g each! The clowns will need a larger tank soon as well - they top out at around 12 inches; mine are in a 55g and while they are still small, need all that room. The plec, if its a common one, will get even larger; figure 2 feet long. Mine is 8 inches (grew 6 in a year) and also is in my 55g. If you can't get another tank or 2, call your lfs and see if they will let you bring some back. You can also post in our barter forum and see if anyone is interested in some of them as well (and you'll be sure, if you do that, that your fish will get a good home; folks here are awesome!).

 

[brenjen]

Thanks, again! Oh, and I forgot to thank you for the welcome to the community!

Wow! I did not even realize how big the clowns & plecos will actually get - and neither did my mom! Gonna have to save some $ up quick then, I think! And do some heavy talking to my hubby! (He didn't even want me to have a 20 gallon - LOL!) Believe it or not, I used to have a 55 gallon saltwater and then graduated to a 200 gallon saltwater tank, which I would absolutely have loved to have brought back with me to Michigan (I lived in California at that time) - a little large to bring in a little U-haul pull-along trailer. There was also an awesome selection of fish out there - not much here in Michigan around the area I live in. I didn't do most of the maintenance, but did watch, and did not seem to have anywhere near as many problems as I do with the smaller freshwater tank. Did have underground and "above ground" filters tho for that tank. Anyways, I would love to have another 55-gallon, so that's what I'm gonna try for, and ASAP. I definitely want to keep my clowns - they are my favorites! On that darn heater, it is supposed to be one of those where you can adjust the temp to where u want it - I think it just isn't working properly - it has the controller on it to adjust from 76 to 82 degrees. Still under warranty, so will get another heater & send this one in to get it replaced also. Your advice sounds the most sensible and right to me - I didn't think you could really clean the tank too much either! I bet that I was disturbing the bacterial colonies up too much for it to cycle properly as I was going around different areas of the tank - not just keeping to a smaller area. So will do the water changes & vacuuming as you said, trying not to move everything around too much. Since treating yesterday with the Ick Guard II, those botias aren't doing the rubbing around on everything - should it have worked that quick? We're snowed in here in Michigan (not even sure if I can get out tomorrow), so can't get out to get a different heater - so . . . am wondering if the ammonia & nitrate levels are the same and don't get worse, should I maybe treat again with the Ick Guard II today (after doing another water change)? Darn - just got the big "N O" from my hubby on a bigger tank (he said he'd move out - just had 3 kitties die on me this year, one 15 years old last week - might have to use that on him! shame on me - I'm bad - LOL! ) Let me ask you one more thing for now, if I could - should I use that "cycle" in the tank when I do any of these water changes - to help out with the bacterial colonies - if so, when?

I really appreciate all the info you have given me - people like you are so awesome to help out others like me - so caring. I will keep you posted on my progress with everything - thanks again!

 

[Allivymar]

Heh yeah, many folks are surprised when they hear how big they fish they have can get. Be grateful you don't have a pacu; those buggers can get up to 3 feet long!

Good on ya for getting the new heater; since you are using meds no rush, but I'd definitely want to get one thats accurate. As for the Ick Guard II, it certainly may be having an effect; I would do the whole course just to be sure.

Oh and Cycle (the product)? Is a waste of time; don't bother. It doesn't have the correct nitrifying bacteria. Bio-Spira is the only product that does. Its not made to deal with established levels of ammonia and nitrites tho, rather rising levels (its meant to be added with fish to a new tank), but it can help in cases of higher ammonia levels as it does contain the correct bacteria. It just won't be a cure all.

*grin* You might want to show hubby this gallery: http://www.bobd.lunarpages.com/loaches/cind01.html . Shows how big those buggers can get! Maybe he'll understand better why a larger tank is necessary.