Loosing em

[mitche8359]

I posted this thread on the Freshwater General Forum and got a few replies, but thought I'd post it here in case someone here that doesn't read the general might have suggestions.

I cycled the tank about a month ago due to a stringy algea taking over the tank, the loss of a couple fish and that fact that the tank needed cleaned. After I set the tank back up and treated for chlorine, I added the four fish that I had. Two days later I added about fifteen fish and a few more a couple of days later. All was well for about three weeks, with an angel showing signs of healing where a fin had been damaged.

Until I lost the angel that was healing. Then a cat, followed by another angel. Seems like everyday I'd find another dead fish even though that fish looked healthy the previous night. In total I have lost two cats, one red tetra, three angels since rebuilding the tank. I tested for ammonia, nitrites, and PH. The ammonia and nitrites registered 0. The PH was 7.4 which is what the PH of the tap water is. I lowered the PH to 7.0. The tank temp is from 78 to 80. The tank seemed to settle down for three days and I thought the issue was over until I found a pleco had died yesterday. The lfs tested the water and saw a nitrite level of .25 which shouldn't have killed off any fish.

At this point, I'm thinking a parasite of some kind. Is there a way to treat the tank for something like this?

Does anyone else have another idea?

Tom

 

[Thaiboxer]

I'm still pretty new to this myself, so I have limited ideas but I ran into a "sort-of" similar situation -

are you using any ammonia detox products to de-chlorinate your tap water? I was, and it threw off my ammonia reading I think. It said 0, but I'm fairly certain I had a spike because I added too many fish at once - it killed off a pair of guppies and my school of new rummy nose tetras.

THat's all I can think of...

 

[mitche8359]

I ran into a "sort-of" similar situation

Yes, I think I read about your loss. Augh...

I don't know if the product I used was an ammonia detoxer or not. I'll read the label again. I'd hope that it wasn't. I also added a large number of fish all at once. Never added that many before. I'd think that after a month though the tank would have stabilized. Maybe not. Plus everyone looked happy happy for three weeks.

 

[brotherd]

Did you use any detergent or strong bleach when you set the tank up?Any new silicone?What about windex when you clean the glass?I have found that you can't even spray lysol in the same room as the tank!

 

[loganj]

My guess, and this is just a guess, is that you added too many too fast. 15 fish is too many, IMO, to add at one time. Even if the tank was cycled, the bacteria could not have adjusted to the increased bioload in time to prevent an ammonia spike. Granted, it may have been a quick spike that subsided quickly, but still enough to damage the fishes gills. Since they were already stressed from the move, it may have been enough to do them in. Also, pH is usually difficult to lower and stabilize. What usually happens is you lower the pH with an additive of some sort and it goes back up in a few hours or a day. This is what we call the yo-yo effect and it is extremely stressful to the fish. Thaiboxer is right about the false ammonia readings if you're using something to bind the ammonia. This occurs with kits that use nessler reagents and, if I remember correctly, will show a very high ammonia reading regardless of how much ammonia is actually present. I would wait until I had readable nitrates before adding any more fish...that way you can be reasonably sure the tank is fully cycled. Then, I would add no more than 3-4 fish at a time if they are small fish. No more than 1 large fish at a time. That may seem overly cautious, but better safe then sorry IMO.
Another possibility, as mentioned above, would be toxins from some sort of cleaner used in the tank. I have found white vinegar to do very well as a general cleaner and have never seen any ill effects on the fish due to its use. Mixed about 50/50 with water, it makes a good glass cleaner too. Keep us posted as to how things develop.
Logan J

 

[mitche8359]

Did you use any detergent or strong bleach when you set the tank up?Any new silicone?What about windex when you clean the glass?I have found that you can't even spray lysol in the same room as the tank!

Yes, I do use windex, but I spray the stuff on the paper towel and then clean the glass usually. I don't use anything other than water when cleaning the tank.

I have seen numerous outbreaks of ich in the last month. I suspect that ich was the cause if several deaths. I lost a sarpae tera to ich about a month ago. The other day I noticed all neons had ich. I've been following a treatment plan that I read in an article using malachite green but I keep seeing outbreaks. I lost two hatchet fish last week. Though I didn't see any signs of it I suspect ich. It's said that ich is always present in the tank and that another stress factor is reducing the health of the fish to the point where the ich can attach. I think that stress factor is the remaining sarpae tetra. It's nipping everyong including the plecos. Don't want to flush him and haven't made the time to take hime to the lfs.

you added too many too fast. 15 fish is too many, IMO, to add at one time

I agree 100% with that fact. I don't usually keep a large fish population but decided to change my ways. Hindsight. Still, I don't know why I keep losing the fish. It's been two months and I keep losing them. I really think ich.

 

[fishfreek]

Yes, I do use windex, but I spray the stuff on the paper towel and then clean the glass usually. I don't use anything other than water when cleaning the tank.

You where aware that windex is ammonia based correct? At least all the bottles of windex I have ever seen have stated on the label that it contains ammonia.

At this point I would discontinue using windex on or around the tank. Search out a non ammonia based cleaning product for your windows and use just a damp cloth to clean your tank glass. If you must use windex then spray it on your towel in another room and then there is less chance of the ammoniia falling into the tank.

 

[mitche8359]

Hmmm... yeah I guess way back in the far reaches of my mind I was hiding that fact. Can't imagine that the trace amount of windex that could get into the tank would affect the water params that much, but I'm willing to do anything to get that tank to settle down. I haven't cleaned the glass in a couple weeks and all the tests I've ever performed for NHO3 have read 0. I'll cut out the windex.

 

[fishfreek]

Well with a new tank any little bit of extra ammonia be it from a new fish or from the enviorment can cause problems.

I must admit I have not followed your thread all the way back but in general its good to be in the habit of not introducing arasols into the same room as the tank.

I wish you luck in fighting this battle.