More space, bigger tank!

[Njiua]

Hey y'all,

So.. yeah, I finally got space to put down a bigger tank.. and that is how this story starts.

I had a 8 gallon (30L) tank with a Betta and some galaxy danios as inhabitants.. sadly my fishkeeper overfed them whilst I was out on vacation. Both my water parameters where off chart and about 60% of the fish died that week. Including my dragon koi Betta...

A few months later, my parameters are brilliant (according to the teststrip) but my last two danios died as well. And so I thought, why don't I do this over again.. but bigger, better and more careful.

This time I've got enough room to put out a 40, maybe even 50 gallon tank. But, what kind of tank should I build? Black water, regular freshwater, reef tank, brackish? So much choice.. however a choice has been made.

Reef tank, since I don't have any experience with reef tanks, I think starting small on this one has it's benefits both as money sink and experience project.

Blackwater, very cool.. however I notice that I'm attracted to the wonderful aquascapes out there.

Brackish, since I started doing tanks I've been eating to have a dragon/violet goby, this fella however needs either a 75g tank, or a tank with a very large footprint. I can't give them that.. soo.. that's a no go.

Freshwater, yes! A freshwater aquascape with a lot of plants, hiding spaces, colourful fish. This is what I'm going for!

So, like I said, larger tank, but still not a LARGE tank, so I kinda have to plan everything to make it work. I'm using the 8 gallon tank as a plant quarantine to let the new plants for the 40g grow. This way they are used to the water conditions. And maybe, maaybbbeee I can save a bit on the plants.

So right now I'm planning on having a heavily planted tank, running at 27~28°c with a pair of electric blue rami's. A few (6) dwarf (diamond) rainbowfish and maybe, very maybe a betta, since it would be the smallest of all the fish and has enough hiding spaces. Or an Atya Gabonesis instead

However, and this is where I get stuck. The rami's like warmer water and the rainbowfish like it 2 degrees Celsius cooler. I might have a few solutions for this, but I'd like to ask you all suggestions or options.

I'm planning on using an in line heater, so there won't be no heater visible in the tank.

1st option: place the filter outlet (warm water outlet) on the bottom half of the tank, place a wave maker just below the surface of the tank to cool the water off using motion. This however creates quite a hard flow for the betta

2nd option; split the output of the filter, throw one of the outputs directly in the top of the tank, the other output goes through the heating system.

3rd option, scrape the rami's off the list, go cry in a corner.. suck it up and throw a complete other fish in there.

Cheers!

 

[Aiken Drum]

Unless you have very poor flow around the aquarium the temperature will be pretty much the same all round. Even if you deliberately created dead spots, in a 40/ 50 gallon aquarium you might only see a temperature gradient of half a degree between areas where the water gets well mixed, and the dead spot where it doesn't. Dead spots aren't good because detritus will collect there, the water won't get filtered so parameters will elevate. All round the dead spots won't be healthy. Your aquarium doesn't have enough water volume where you might be able to create any kind of significant temperature gradient.

If you want to keep blue rams, set everything up with them in mind and keep other fish that like the water hot. Or maybe consider bolivian rams as an alternative as these don't need such high temperatures.

 

[Andy Sager]

I'm with Aiken on this. Keeping fish that require ( or do best in ) different water parameters ( i.e. temps, GH, pH , etc) is usually a bad combination that leads to more problems than enjoyment. There are plenty of fish species that like similar conditions so I'd keep to those. If you have a " must have" fish in mind, build the tank ( i.e. size, scape, tankmates) around that fish's parameters then fill in the rest.
What you can do if you make a long enough tank, is put a glass or plexiglass divider in the tank and make each side different with it's own filters. Even with this tho, you don't want to keep fish that require very different water temps as they will be working against each other at the divider.

 

[Njiua]

Thanks for the replies!

Yeah figured it wouldn't work out, such a shame
I'm gonna build the tank around the rams. The moment I saw them in my lfs I couldn't get them out of my head.

Plus the rainbow fish are nice, but it appears that rams can show signs of aggression against fish that look like them, since they are blue.. and the dwarf rainbow fish are silver, I dont wanna risk it.
Same for the Betta. I've read some articles about people who made it work out.. but more about Betta irritating the bigger, less hostile fish. Since it all depends on the Betta.

So for now.. the inhabitants will be:
A pair of electric blue ram's
A pair (or three) vampire shrimp (I think they're called so, but I mean the big ones)
A few cappuccino snails (still have them around)

Any possible additions
10 rasbora (or other small fish)
A couple dwarf gouramis
Catfish (maybe)
Some sort of oddball (suggestions?)

Forgive me being mean but I don't want guppies nor any life bearers.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Fish that are commonly kept at higher temperatures with blue rams.

Rummynose tetras.
Honey gourami.
Kuhli loach.
Chili and harlequin rasboras.

Some corys are good at higher temperatures. Sterbai corys off the top of my head. Same with plecos, zebra plecos I think.

There are discus, but don't really suit your aquarium size.

If you think of any others, let us know.

 

[Andy Sager]

In the 27-28C range, you have Angelfish, Some of the prettier Gouramis like Pearls and Thick lipped , if you are prepared to rehome them when they get larger, Clown Loaches do well in that temperature range as well.

 

[Njiua]

Allright allright, thanks for the help!

I think I've got a nice, how do you call it? Fish list? - but then the nicer word for it

So, let me start with the first thing I switched out. Since all the fish I like to better, or maybe not better, but rather have a blackwater biotope. I thought it would be a nice challenge to make a aquascape with a limited amount of plants which do good under such circumstances. Like Anubias, java moss, buce.. etc.

The water will be around 26°c. I know ram's like warm water, but I've read that if the water is 27+ you'll have a chance of egg spawn and thus aggressive fish.
Ph depends on the quarantaine tanks if the lfs, but it'll be around 6.

For the fish?
A pair of blue ram's
A group of 10 lemon Tetra's
A pair of bristlenose pleco's
This lot will probably all do great at 6ph.

However I'd love a pair of licorice gourami in there, and there guys are a bit tricky regarding the pH. So, if the lfs has them on 6pH I'll throw them in, if not I won't let the fish go through a quarantine process again and I'll leaf (pun intended) them out

 

[Aiken Drum]

I wouldn't do blue rams at 26c. They really need 28c, maybe 30c. 26c will compromise their immune system, they will be prone to illness, have shorter lifespans etc. Been there, done that.

 

[Njiua]

I wouldn't do blue rams at 26c. They really need 28c, maybe 30c. 26c will compromise their immune system, they will be prone to illness, have shorter lifespans etc. Been there, done that.

Really huh? I read all about 26° is the best and stuff..

Welp, the other fish type can both do 23-28 (or so) so I could crank the temperature up. Wouldn't that be too warm for the other though?

If yes, I'm afraid I have to let the rams go

 

[Aiken Drum]

IMO 26c is bottom end, and having tried a few times at that sort of temperature I wouldn't do it again. 28c would be the minimum I would go again at.

You don't want to be looking at fish where your temperature is the bottom end for one species, and the upper end of another's as you just end up with something that's not right for any of them. You really want fish that have similar temperature requirements. So to keep blue rams you want to be looking for fish that are comfortable in the 26c to 30c range same as the rams and have the temperature comfortably in the middle.

But they are your fish, if you are happy to experiment and take a few risks.

 

[Njiua]

But they are your fish, if you are happy to experiment and take a few risks.

True, however they are still living creatures and I should care for them the best I can (in my opinion)

That's why I also only considering the licorice if they are on a decent pH. If the lfs put them on pH8 it's quite the way to go to they're preferred pH. And the chance that they'll get in shock is quite big.

I'm gonna make a trip to my lfs, maybe even two tomorrow. And I'll see what they've got swimming around!
I'll keep you updated.

 

[Andy Sager]

I'm with Aiken. Temperature ranges are not at constant temps. You always want to aim for the middle of the ranges for the daily temp with the knowledge that at different times of the year and different times of the day, the temps will vary. Unfortunately, the information you get online is for wild caught specimens and with that, if a temperature goes to an extreme edge of the range, the fish will move to a more suitable area in the water even if that means leaving an area. Since the fish in a tank have no choice, they are stuck. If they don't like the temp, they have 2 choices, adapt or die. It can go either way.

 

[Andy Sager]

True, however they are still living creatures and I should care for them the best I can (in my opinion)

That's why I also only considering the licorice if they are on a decent pH. If the lfs put them on pH8 it's quite the way to go to they're preferred pH. And the chance that they'll get in shock is quite big.

I'm gonna make a trip to my lfs, maybe even two tomorrow. And I'll see what they've got swimming around!
I'll keep you updated.

If the store puts the Gouramis at the higher pH, they probably won't be doing well in the long run. I'd be hesitant to get them if that was the case.
Mixing fish is more then just matching water parameters. It's as much about matching temperaments, food requirements , habitats, etc. Licorice Gouramis like to be in a heavily planted area. Rams like to be in a more open space. Licorice Gouramis like a cooler water than the Rams do. Their range tops out at the Rams lowball numbers. Just as Aiken mentioned, this is a bad combination in tankmates. Just sayin'

 

[Somerchooks]

Have you thought about getting Bolivian rams they don’t require the higher temps like the blues do . So 26c would be fine for the Bolivians .