new addition and quarantine

[ellisz]

Well, we bought a yellow tang yesterday to go in our 75 gal. We have wanted to get one but it was sort of an impulse buy since I did not have the quarantine tank up yet.

I put water from my main tank and some fresh saltwater in a 10 gal with a heater and a power filter. I have used the power filter before but I had to use a carbon filter pad since I was out of the filter for the unit itself. I figure I will be monitoring for ammonia and doing water changes on this.

I have tried yellow tangs in the past with little success. I think it was due to my tank being to small and improper diet. I bought some seaweed selects and have some Formula 2 flakes now to feed with.

The tang had great yellow color and swam alot at the LFS. It is swimming now but is showing some red lines in the nose. I am not really concerned but I figure having it in a 10 gal QT and the move has stressed it out. Besides looking for spots, any other signs I should be looking for?

It has not ate yet and I don't want to keep trying to feed it since I don't want to an ammonia spike ...

 

[steve-s]

The red marks are usually the sign of a mild bacterial infection. Try a few small water changes to see if that help with it. Did you use any of the LFS bagged water in the QT? It could also be the result of some sort of abbrassion from transport or netting.

If it persists, you may need to opt for a broad spectrum anti-biotic for gram negative baacteria. I would suggest keeping up with the improved diet and small water changes to see if it recovers on it's own first...

How is the ph and other water parameters.. ?

Cheers
Steve

 

[ellisz]

I added my water to the bag little by little and dumped half out and started over. I then netted the fish from the bag to the QT.

I have not tested the water other than ammonia yet. He has been in Qt less than 12 hrs at this point. I will test the rest ..

 

[ellisz]

PH 8.8
Nitrites under .25 ... barely registered
Nitrates 0

 

[steve-s]

I would re-test the ph to be sure, 8.8 is quite high. If you just did a water change, wait at least a few hours before testing the ph again as the newly added water may spike the ph a bit.

Watch the ph though, if/when ammonia becomes present it will actually be more toxic than usual with a high ph value. If the ph does not settle by itself in a day or so, you might try adding some soda water. About ½ teaspoon at a time until it comes down to about 8.2-8.3, just be very careful to add slowly and test each time.


Cheers
Steve

 

[ellisz]

My tap water tests for the same value as the tank water does. Should this go down? The PH on my tap water is a bit high. 8.8 was actually a guess. The color does not match 8.6 but is not as dark as 9.0. I think this PH test is not very good. My colors are never quite the same as the diagram for PH.

Anyway, the fish is now on the bottom of the tank just breathing. There is little hope it will make it. I don't have anything to treat with but I doubt it would matter. I did just do a wter change with water from the main tank to see if it matters.

<24 hr survival sucks. Don't think there was a guarantee but I will check.

 

[steve-s]

If using the tap water (not a great idea ), make sure you mix up the saltwater at least 24 hrs ahead of time with a PH and heater to ensure that the parameters have had time to stabalize. When setting up a QT "on the fly" it is better to use the main tanks water as it will be less stressful on the newly aquired fish than a new batch of water would. If you are planning on any future purchases, I would suggest leaving the QT running and allow it to stabalize on it's own.

If the tang has just started the rapid breathing after the water swap, I would suspect a drastic change in the ph (not good). These kinds of changes must be done very slowly so as not to shock the inhabitants. Due to the small size of the QT, you must think in smaller degrees to avoid drastic changes. Have you tested the ph since the water change or was the 8.6 the new reading and are you sure the ammonia is not registering? If you have not done a water change, then ammonia would be suspect for sure.

In most cases, ph will settle in a day or two on it's own so in future do not use the tap water immediately from the tap but rather let is sit for a few hours to allow the ph come down. Even better would be to get an RO unit but in it's absence, you could fill a 5 gal bucket and have it on hand for top ups and such. Use a PH to keep the water moving as well. I would also get yourself a more accurate ph test if your having trouble with this one. What brand is it?

Cheers
Steve

 

[ellisz]

I used the main tanks water for the QT. I do make the water ahead of time and use a PH and a heater.

The tap water has been used for the main tank-running for 1.5 months and my last tank for 9 years.

I did a water change on the QT after the tang was on the bottom - he was laying on the bottom.

All tests were done today with an Aquarium Pharm test kit.

sucks!

 

[steve-s]

Your main tank's ph generally runs at 8.6+ consistantly or just near the end of the day? Sorry to belabour the issue but I am not understanding where the high ph is coming from if using the water from the main tank in the QT unless the test is giving a false reading.

Cheers
Steve

 

[ellisz]

I just tested the PH of the main tank. This is the end of th day and based on what I got, I would have to say the reading is between 8.6-9.0. This is a wide range pH test. 8.2 is a light blue green color, 8.6 is a bit darker and 9.0 is dark blue. My reading really never show any green but are usually a lighter color than the dark blue. I will test again in the morning to see what it says.

I have added water latelythough. With the QT, I had to replace the water I took out.

Since it was dire anyway, I treated the QT with some greenx. I had it from long ago and it was all I had. The tang is moving but still laying flat on the bottom.

 

[ellisz]

Ok, I just found this site ...http://www.aquasite.com/knowledge/disease/disease.shtml

I went through it and since there are no real visible problems, it said:
Disease Diagnosis: None - Low Oxygen

Check water quality for both Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide levels

I had a whisper filter running with an carbon Aqua clear pad cut to the shape of a whisper filter, since I did not have any. Would this have caused a problem ... too much carbon?

I removed the pad when I treated the tank and the fish is moving a bit more but I still have little hope of survival ...

just wondering if I did something wrong...

 

[steve-s]

I suspect the test kit you are using is giving you false readings to some degree if you are getting a ph close to 9.0. I would also suggest taking your ph kit to the LFS and have them test their water using your test kit and one of their own and compare the results.

With a proper ph or even higher, low O2 will not normally be a problem. If the output of the Whisper is moving the surface water it will be oxygenating the water to some degree. Is the QT covered? If so, remove the lid as it will increase the gas exchange and allow trapped CO2 to escape more freely. I still think the problem may be in part due to an elevated ph (even if only slightly) + ammonia. The two combined can be quite leathal. It does not make sense that you have a nitrite reading and no ammonia if you have just set things up. Was the filter seeded before use?

I had a whisper filter running with an carbon Aqua clear pad cut to the shape of a whisper filter, since I did not have any. Would this have caused a problem ... too much carbon?

No, carbon will not have this kind of adverse affect unless it was previuosly used and possibley contaminated. I am wondering why the use of the Greenex though, if you've only had the tang for a day? Adding treatments with a fish that shows no sign of a parasite could further stress the fish unneccessarily. FWIW, if you have added the Greenex while the carbon was still in use, the carbon will have removed the med for the most part anyway.

How much did you use? The recommended dosage for GreenEx is 1 drop per 1 gal of actual water volume...

Cheers
Steve

 

[ellisz]

I added it since the fish was on the bottom of the tank bareley breathing. I thought there might be something there i was not seeing. Should I just let it die without trying?

I removed the carbon pad after putting the treatment in. I was aware of the carbon removing the chemical and the correct dosage.

I will get the water tested for pH. I did test for ammonia and it was OK. The Nitrites were barely detectable. The ammonia was not a bright yellow so I figured I would be changing the water the next day. I am cycling LR in another tank so I have water available.

 

[steve-s]

I thought there might be something there i was not seeing. Should I just let it die without trying?

I am not trying to suggest you don't care, quite the contrary. In answer to your question though, it is better to do nothing unless you know what you are treating. GreenEx is a parasite treatment and really should not be used unless there is evidence of that.

I will get the water tested for pH. I did test for ammonia and it was OK. The Nitrites were barely detectable. The ammonia was not a bright yellow so I figured I would be changing the water the next day. I am cycling LR in another tank so I have water available.

So does this mean there was some ammonia present?

BTW, I have moved this to the "Sick fish/Coral" forum in hopes of getting some additional insights.

Cheers
Steve

 

[ellisz]

was not green but not bright yellow. With me trying to feed and the small amount of water, I expected the ammonia to rise.

The Tang is dead now

Makes me wonder if the quarantine was worth it. I have thriving fish and inverts in the main tank using the same water that was in the QT. If it was a parasite, then I would be relieved that it did not infect the rest of my fish. I have no evidence of that so it kind of make me wonder what happened.

I have heard from others that my pH test kit might not be the one of choice. I have a shrimp, crabs and snails living in the tank with no issues. The LR is showing more signs of life with worms and such. Am I to think that the water is not ideal?

 

[jamal-188]

If you could post exact results of your test kits such as actual number of amonia and nitrites that would be much more helpful in determining if your water quality is ok or not.

 

[steve-s]

Sorry for the loss...

I hope that you will continue to quarantine your fish as it is still the best way to prevent problems in the main display tank. Disease is not the only thing that may kill a fish and the deaths are not always going to be immediately explainable. I am not sure what is going on with the water quality in the QT and think you should have the test readings verified. As I said, if the ph was elevated and there was ammonia present it can be leathal so until you get your ph test kit verified, that will remain a possibility.

The water quality in your display tank could well be ideal but you need to understand that when it is placed in a different environment such as a QT, the variables change and with that the water quality will change as well. I hope that you will post later once/if you decide to get the tests verified and any other info that might be relevant so we can figure out what if anything, was askew to prevent this from happening again.

Cheers
Steve

 

[ellisz]

If you could post exact results of your test kits such as actual number of amonia and nitrites that would be much more helpful in determining if your water quality is ok or not.

I did not post the actual number on the ammonia or Nitrites since he color was not exact. Maybe my test kits sucks but it is the only one I have used and I believe the LFS uses the same. I will check out the seachem kit. On my kit for Nitrites, it is clear for 0 and pink for .25(I think). It was not pink but not clear. The same is for ammonia. Yellow is 0 and greenish yellow is .25. The test was not a bright yellow but I did not see any real green. Could be my eyes I guess.

I hope that you will post later once/if you decide to get the tests verified and any other info that might be relevant so we can figure out what if anything, was askew to prevent this from happening again.

I called the LFS and they said they would give me half off another fish and test my water. The QT water will probably be bad being that the fish is still in there. I have not removed it yet. I guess pH might still me valid? I will have them test my main tank as well.

I'll let you know. Thanks.

 

[steve-s]

I guess pH might still me valid? I will have them test my main tank as well.

The ph in the QT will have been lowered by the fish being left in it so that would not help nor would taking a sample of your main tanks water. Once the water is removed from the tank, ambient O2/CO2 will affect it in a short time. If you take a water sample to the LFS the results will be inaccurate for ph.

I would instead take your ph test kit to them and run a test with it on their water and compare the results against their instore test kit. That should give you a more accurate guage as to the accuracey of the ph kit you have.

Cheers
Steve

 

[ellisz]

Well, I did not get them to test my kit but I did buy another pH test kit. Not sure how good it is but it is give clearer results. The tablet one I have says it is a wide range test. I got a liquid kit that tests high range. It was the only one I could find locally and it is consistently reading 8.2.

I did take the fish back and they tested my main tank water. pH was 8.4 and all other levels were zero. They gave me half credit and I got another yellow tang. This one was eating(the other one did not) and has been in the QT for 24+ hours. He is doing well at this point. I did a water change tonight since ammonia was creeping up - .25. The pH was 8.2.

One thing I wondered was right now, my lights are off during the day. I don't have a timer running yet due to some previous heating issues I had. With the glass tops removed and the open canopy, this is not a problem. On weekends, I have the light on longer. This will be corrected.