Nitrate poisoning and I'm desperate to save my fish!!!! Please help...

[Airborne 82nd]

One more note I only measured out 35g of water one time then made a mark on the tank at that level. Now i just drain to that mark and I know just how much prime to add every wc

 

[Andy Sager]

Omg I wouldn't wanna risk doing that! Are you joking or for real? Lol. It's safe to test a fish like that?? It would definitely answer a lot of questions. Either way, I'm just relieved he's doing better.

I'm serious. I wouldn't do it right now but once the fish is acting like his old self, it would answer the question as long as you don't do something else with it.

Now I'm a bit worried because I put in the pvc pipe but he seems to be afraid of it... he's hiding behind the filter. I don't wanna stress him out!! It's so white and big. What should I do..? Leave it? Can it be too risky to stress him? I'll do as you say.

Why wouldn't he be scared of it? It's something new in his tank. I'll bet ya he's never seen a PVC connector like that before. Give him time.

Okay that confirms what I always thought and followed: no soap, ever.


Yup that's what I did. I'm worried he's too scared of it in that small tank..


Ohh, I hear the logic. Thanks

Woops, I wrote this late last night but forgot to hit Post Reply. :^s

 

[Libby1]

@ Libby1
I have 70 gallons of water (measured) 35 +35 = 70 or 1/2 of my water 50%
Your 36gallons would be close to 18 gallons. But that is not a firm rule there are other variables. Like how much water you really have in the tank, fish poop, over feeding, adding fish and on and on. Once your done with meds and things are back to normal start with 18g do that every day testing as you go the nitrAtes should be dropping if not then you would need to increase the amount of water. If they are dropping then keep on with 18g a day until you get to 0ppm. Then stop water changes but measure nitrates every day. When trAtes get to 10ppm make a note of how many days that took. I like to shoot for 7 days and adjust how much water to remove to get to 0-10% it just so happens 35g or 50% works out for me. Even then I may need to do a extra wc every now and then life gets in the way things happen. That's where those pesky variables come into play. After awhile you will get a feel for things and how your fish act until then water changes and testing is your friend
I'm always willing to be corrected when proven wrong

I'm so confused. You are saying a similar concept to what @Andy Sager is saying; do I understand you both correctly that there is sort of a way to "train" the system to keep a low nitrate once you establish that low nitrate level to begin with....?

If so, since my fish have been acclimated to a higher nitrate level for 10 years now, is it perhaps better to just keep maintaining water changes periodically and obviously try to bring it lower, even if the nitrates are not as low as 10 or 20? It is not realistically possible for me to do water changes every single day...

@Andy Sager and @Airborne 82nd I will read your messages again so i gain more clarity but first wanted to ask the above.

In another post I'll update on my parameters.

Thanks!

 

[Libby1]

One more note I only measured out 35g of water one time then made a mark on the tank at that level. Now i just drain to that mark and I know just how much prime to add every wc

Good idea. @Andy Sager had given me that suggestion when I had the nitrate poisoning. It was so odd to realize that in order to change what I thought was 30% of water, I had to empty out more water than I thought until then. Interesting!

Question: What does Prime do in terms of water quality in the aquarium, other than removing any bad stuff from the tap water?

 

[Libby1]

I'm serious. I wouldn't do it right now but once the fish is acting like his old self, it would answer the question as long as you don't do something else with it.

Wow. Very interesting! Okay let's give him time to get fully back to himself. i won't do anything before consulting with you. (You've officially become my mentor!)

Why wouldn't he be scared of it? It's something new in his tank. I'll bet ya he's never seen a PVC connector like that before. Give him time.

Haha you're funny! You speak about him like he's a human. I love it.
Question: how can I know if the pvc connector is big enough? It looks like his body can fit. But perhaps he'd have to flatten his fins. That's fine, yes? I'm asking because he's swimming near it but I haven't seen him attempt to enter. Could it just be part of the "getting familiar with it" process? Do they like snug spaces? The 4" just seemed so much bigger and less cozy so I bought the 3". It's probably a very snug fit. If you suggest the larger size I'll switch it up, but would much rather stick with this if you say he'll squeeze in there just fine.

Woops, I wrote this late last night but forgot to hit Post Reply. :^s

Lol I was actually wondering how come I hadn't heard back from you!

While I'm here, I'll give you an update on parameters:

Ammonia 0
Nitrate 35 (at least)
PH around 7.2 (a portion of the coral is still in the tank)

I also tested my tap water:
Nitrate 0 (I've never seen zero nitrate!)
PH around 7.2 (exact same as my tank water right now)

Would love to hear your thoughts on things based on the above. I will do a small water change shortly (probably approx 20%)

Fed him 5 pellets around an hour ago. He would have eaten more.

Just noting here in case it's easily missed, I posted 3 replies just now; posts #203, #204, #205

Thanks!

 

[Airborne 82nd]

"I'm so confused. You are saying a similar concept to what @Andy Sager is saying; do I understand you both correctly that there is sort of a way to "train" the system to keep a low nitrate once you establish that low nitrate level to begin with....?"
No The testing and water changes are training you.
If so, since my fish have been acclimated to a higher nitrate level for 10 years now, is it perhaps better to just keep maintaining water changes periodically and obviously try to bring it lower, even if the nitrates are not as low as 10 or 20? It is not realistically possible for me to do water changes every single day...
When I spoke of everyday wc that was just to get the nitrAes down quickly so you would have a starting point to figure out your wc schedule. It doesn't need to be everyday just often enough to get your nitrAtes down to 0 you could do this over a period of weeks. The goal is just to get it down. As far as what level you want to keep it. Trade places with your fish how much poop do you want in your drinking water? The only reason you would have to keep doing water changes everyday forever is if you have to high of a bio load (poop) for the amount of water you have. That is why large tanks with a small bio load are easier to keep. Even with 70g of water I have to keep a close eye on my tank because my two fish are pigs they need a larger tank. For you and your fish a larger tank would be such a stress relief. Trust me I'm in the same boat so until I get a larger tank I have to do what is best for Oscar enough water changes to keep the nitrAtes from 0-10 however often that has to be.

 

[Andy Sager]

I'm so confused. You are saying a similar concept to what @Andy Sager is saying; do I understand you both correctly that there is sort of a way to "train" the system to keep a low nitrate once you establish that low nitrate level to begin with....?

If so, since my fish have been acclimated to a higher nitrate level for 10 years now, is it perhaps better to just keep maintaining water changes periodically and obviously try to bring it lower, even if the nitrates are not as low as 10 or 20? It is not realistically possible for me to do water changes every single day...

Here's what you need to understand: Nitrates are bad for the fish, but not as bad/toxic as Ammonia and Nitrites are. Higher nitrates affect the fish's organs over time. How long a time depends on the fish. There is no standard that says X PPM of nitrates will harm a fish in Y number of days, so you are always best to not have them if you don't have live plants that need them for feeding. In a perfect world, 0 nitrates would make the fish happier than even 10 ppm. I'm not sure who came up with the 40 ppm as being the upper limit of tolerability but that's today's common practice. My fish tanks never ever came close to that high because I change water like you breath air. Call it " the cost of having a fish tank. " The fact that your fish has survived for so long with them in the higher level shows that your system of fish keeping is less than ideal. ( You've been asking us to be kind with responses so I've avoided this topic. This is reality check time. ) You may have kept the fish for so long but that doesn't mean you couldn't have kept them better. Maybe Lumpy wouldn't have had her issues if there were no nitrate issues? We'll never know now but it's just something to consider.

@Andy Sager and @Airborne 82nd I will read your messages again so i gain more clarity but first wanted to ask the above.

In another post I'll update on my parameters.

Thanks!

 

[Andy Sager]

Good idea. @Andy Sager had given me that suggestion when I had the nitrate poisoning. It was so odd to realize that in order to change what I thought was 30% of water, I had to empty out more water than I thought until then. Interesting!

Question: What does Prime do in terms of water quality in the aquarium, other than removing any bad stuff from the tap water?

PRIME breaks down the bond between chlorine and ammonia ( which were bonded to make chloramine) so that the ammonia can be converted into ammonium for the nitrifying bacteria to consume and the chlorine can dissipate. It also adds slime into the water which helps the fish not lose more of their body slime which can happen when stressed from new water.

 

[Andy Sager]

Wow. Very interesting! Okay let's give him time to get fully back to himself. i won't do anything before consulting with you. (You've officially become my mentor!)

Haha you're funny! You speak about him like he's a human. I love it.

Fish are not human and fish are not stupid. They are reactionary. They see things in and out of the water and they react. They don't always know there's a glass wall separating them from what they are seeing. Even in the wild, you can make a ball of fish jump out of the water just by making a sudden gesture with your arms from the shore. This was a common practice for my Dad and Me when we were looking for bait to go fishing with. As I said earlier, I've been studying animal behavior for a long, long, longass time.

Question: how can I know if the pvc connector is big enough? It looks like his body can fit. But perhaps he'd have to flatten his fins. That's fine, yes? I'm asking because he's swimming near it but I haven't seen him attempt to enter. Could it just be part of the "getting familiar with it" process? Do they like snug spaces?

I suspect he's just getting used to it. He doesn't need to go into it. Just knowing there's a place to hide behind MAY be enough.

The 4" just seemed so much bigger and less cozy so I bought the 3". It's probably a very snug fit. If you suggest the larger size I'll switch it up, but would much rather stick with this if you say he'll squeeze in there just fine.

Lol I was actually wondering how come I hadn't heard back from you!

Wasn't I surprised when I didn't see my response on your thread after my lunch. LOL I wrote it at about 1:15 this morning.

While I'm here, I'll give you an update on parameters:

Ammonia 0
Nitrate 35 (at least)
PH around 7.2 (a portion of the coral is still in the tank)

I also tested my tap water:
Nitrate 0 (I've never seen zero nitrate!)
PH around 7.2 (exact same as my tank water right now)

Confirm it's really 0 and if so, get used to doing daily water changes to get the level in his tank down lower.

Would love to hear your thoughts on things based on the above. I will do a small water change shortly (probably approx 20%)

Fed him 5 pellets around an hour ago. He would have eaten more.

Just noting here in case it's easily missed, I posted 3 replies just now; posts #203, #204, #205

Thanks!

 

[Airborne 82nd]

Andy
Fish are not human and fish are not stupid. They are reactionary. They see things in and out of the water and they react.

For the last couple of weeks I've been putting my face up close to the tank and then tilt my head over to my shoulder and Oscar will lean his body the same direction. they are so fun to watch.

 

[Andy Sager]

Andy
Fish are not human and fish are not stupid. They are reactionary. They see things in and out of the water and they react.

For the last couple of weeks I've been putting my face up close to the tank and then tilt my head over to my shoulder and Oscar will lean his body the same direction. they are so fun to watch.

Like I said, they are not human and they are not stupid.

 

[Libby1]

Hiiii! @Andy Sager @Airborne 82nd
Sorry for my delayed response, and for not responding (yet) to all the detailed, important - and humorous - messages you've written! It's because I've been extremely swamped and limited with time, but I want you to know that I read them all right away and acted accordingly. So thank you! And I will be re-reading certain details because I still need to work on the nitrate levels, etc.

But first, a quick update:

My parrot is doing just fine!! Thank G-d. Her color came back completely and she is acting her normal self again. I am so relieved. I am so tempted to try taking away the blanket and test what you said, but I really don't wanna disturb him, and what you said does make perfect sense. It's so fascinating to learn how sensitive fish are to their environment. Also, I did see him swim through the PVC pipe once.

That being said, I haven't transferred him yet to the big tank. I need to do it when I'm around for a good few days so I can monitor what's happening in the big tank. Also because I wanna do it right so I'm gonna have some questions. But also, because I need to have a backup plan in case he harasses my silver dollars too much. But that makes me sad, because I really don't wanna give them up... I wish a magic wand could just make them get along! I'm just wondering if you'd know the limits of the dollars, meaning, at which point do I say okay, that's too much harassment and I need to remove them for their benefit.

In the meantime i've been doing 2-3 water changes per week on the little tank. If I had time, I'd do more. I'll keep trying and will update you on latest water parameters; I need to test it..

I'll be in touch later about that.