Nitrate poisoning and I'm desperate to save my fish!!!! Please help...

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I'll start by saying So sorry to hear about your friend. Hope he/she gets better.

As for the first test results, they don't count. You can't immediately test the water after a water change before it has plenty of time to circulate throughout the tank. That's like pouring chocolate syrup into a glass of milk and being upset the milk is still white even tho you didn't stir it. Get the picture? ;) Wait at least 3 to 4 hours before testing after a water change.
As for the ammonia level being higher more frequently, there are a few possibilities:
Your water company is using more chloramine.
You are feeding more food.
Your fish are bigger now so they produce more ammonia no matter what you feed them.
Your fish are overcrowded which causes them to be more aggressive towards each other which causes the fish to breathe heavier which produces ammonia in the water. ( Yes, breathing causes ammonia. I refer you to: Florida Department of Agriculture & Consumer Services )

Regarding the nitrates: The more ammonia being produced, the more nitrates your tank is going to produce. Guess what the best answer is to that, ;) ( Hint: It's water changes, more frequently or larger in volume. ;) ) As for as the nitrates coming from the gravel, that's only true if there is excess food buried in the gravel. If there is uneaten food in the gravel, it means you are overfeeding and you need to stir up more of the gravel at each water change to suck out the uneaten food and cut back on the amount. Removing some gravel will do nothing but remove areas where the nitrifying microbes could be.

Moving forward: reread every post Aiken and I have made in your thread regarding how to deal with an overcrowded tank. No matter how you try to get around it, the proper answers in order are: a better combination of fish followed by more room for the existing fish to get away from each other. If these are not an option, it means YOU have to do more work with more frequent water changes or changing the amount of water you change at each water change.

So that's where you are at. At least "Bumpy fish" is better. (y)
Hi, Hi, Hi, Andy - it's been a while - but I've been wanting to post so badly but been so consumed with my friend and with just trying to do my water changes, etc. Thank you for expressing your well wishes to her.

First, I love how you're calling her "Bumpy Fish" :) Very appropriate name. She actually is also called "Burny" because many years ago when she was really little, she survived a huge, deep infection from a burn she got from the heater! Gosh, she's been through a lot. :cry:

I have so much to ask you and desperately could use your advice.. although we've already been on the topic... so you might want to yell at me.. but please don't.... :cry: I'll explain.

Indeed, thank G-d, Burny Bumpy Fish pulled through whatever it is that blew up her stomach, and like you said, the bump stayed. Which would be fine, if not for my horribly terrible blood parrot. I know I need to get rid of him or something. But if you don't mind, I'd like to explain my thoughts and see if you can help me brainstorm the different aspects of things, which I'll explain.

As we discussed, he lately became extremely bullying to my silver dollars. Until this whole thing happened, they would just brush it off and swim away. When they would chew their veggies and he came to bully, they kept chewing and swam away whenever they wanted to. Now, they're a lot more scared. And what's making me panic is, that my Bumpy Fish is not really eating, and I'm hoping she actually does eat when I don't see. Is that possible???? She basically comes to eat but gives up when the bully shows up. I'm so sad!!!! And terrified!!! I need her to eat!!! I hope she's eating somehow..

Now. The thing is, I bought spirulina flakes, beautiful and fresh. They all come running to eat from it, but interestingly, bumpy fish might not like it. She tasted a piece, spit it out, took it back in, played around with it. And doesn't really eat it. She gets lively when I put it in the tank, I guess because she smells the food, but doesn't prefer it.

Regarding trying the divider idea. I'm so lost. I really hope maybe you can give me advice..? I'll describe in detail:

I haven't found a divider that fits the size. I ordered a plex-glass one which is very solid and is see-through so less invasive, but it doesn't fit right. I ordered some other not-so-great divider made out of plastic mesh.. it's black.. also not the right size but I tried putting it in but it's practically impossible and here's why. My blood parrot (the bully) gets scared every time he sees me even take it into my hand, and goes to the other side of the tank to join the silver dollars. Which means, even if I somehow find a way to install it, I would have to scoop him up and drop him into that area. Which freaks me out because I never like spooking my fish. And I don't wanna harm him. Although I'm so mad at him. Also, he might go nuts and get so wild trying to fight it. I don't know what to do. Every time I try, I get freaked out that I'm freaking out my fish -- I am so scared and upset every time, and I just give up and put the divider down. I don't know what you would recommend, how I can install the divider or what approach I should take. I could never see it working on a daily temporary basis (putting it in and out daily) so that only when i feed them I put it in, because I don't even know how I'm gonna get it in well enough to begin with, and for the blood parrot to end up on the other side of it. Also, it would freak out my fish even more and they surely wouldn't eat. I don't know if perhaps I should install it for a little bit each day and leave them all on the other side of it so they get used to seeing it, or if that won't help. And it's a huge hassle - I couldn't even manage yet to get it in even once!! I don't know if it makes no sense to put the divider and leave it in all the time (should I be successful with it at all) because it would be a very small space, so it's probably not realistic to keep my adult blood parrot within a tiny space.

I am at such a loss. I don't know if it makes any sense to put some tank water in a pail and literally scoop out my blood parrot each time I feed my fish and have him in the pail during feeding time so that my other fish eat... I would be terrified to do it since I don't wanna stress him out each time, and also the water could get cold in the meantime, etc. But I know I need him out of that tank or kept in control when it's feeding time. Because it's already very, very concerning. Terrifying. I know. I'm guilty of not getting rid of him yet. But that also is extremely heartbreaking for me. I don't even know where I'd give him to know he's taken care of but I can't imagine just getting rid of him after raising him for almost 10 years. I'm devastated and getting emotional as I'm typing now.

I wish I could open another tank for him. But even just maintaining this tank is so much work, I can't imagine starting a whole new tank, with the stress of cycling, etc. and I don't even have where to keep another tank. I don't wanna harm him, but I must must must must save my precious silver dollars!!! I know I make no sense because the two seem like an impossible reality, but please.. is there a way we can first brainstorm on ideas of how I can get my blood parrot to calm down, and my silver dollars to become their happy self again.....? They don't swim around all day the way they used to.. they're keeping more to themselves and I know it's gotta be due to the bullying being done to them. Ughhh I'm nauseous thinking about it.

I was thinking if maybe it would be good to get a partner for my parrot, another blood parrot. But I rather not add fish given my nitrate problem. Also, do we know if that would help the problem, or could it make it worse? From what I understand, blood parrots partner up. And silver dollars need a school of at least 4, preferrably 5. But to add a silver dollar now would also be cruel if I'll just subject it to the abuse that my parrot is doing.

I am so lost, so sad, so heartbroken (I'm not just saying it. I really mean it. I've been in such a sad mood). I totally don't know what to do about the above. Finally thank G-d they survived the nitrate poisoning beautifully -- I want them to get stronger and happy again!! I hope you can somehow help me out...? I definitely need the support, and could use some ideas, I don't even know what. Thank you so much in advance. And for everything you've advised so far.

:cry::cry::cry:

P.s. Just to mention, I've been trying to feed a variety; the spirulina flakes, here and there the pellets, and different veggies that I clip onto the tank walls... I leave those in for a while or even until they finish it (which could take a while because they keep getting interrupted by my blood parrot) but I feel safe doing so because the vegetables don't just disintegrate like pellets or flakes do; they remain solid, so I'm under the assumption that as long as that's the case, the water doesn't get contaminated from it. Am I correct with that? And that's also what makes me hopeful that Bumpy Fish does get to eat, I just don't get to see it..
 
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Does this mean that it's enough if the roots are in the water? It's not the leaves that absorb the nitrates?
The plants take up nitrates and nutrients from the roots and leaves. If there are no nutrients in the air, then the roots will do the job.
So what's the point of the carbon filter? And which filter helps ammonia?
Thanks
Carbon removes organic matter so things like Tannins, Gases like Carbon Dioxide & Methane, the materials that darken water from fish waste over time ad such. The amount of carbon in a filter cartridge is not going to remove all these things all the time. Think of it as a sponge. Once you moisten a sponge, water is not taking over areas inside the sponge so that the sponge itself can't hold as much water as it did when it was dry. The more water in the sponge, the less new water the sponge can absorb. In the end tho, water changes can do more than the carbon does.
Regarding the other topics:
Getting more fish for your tank will only make things worse not better so get rid of that idea. The fish stopping eating because the Parrot harasses them is a long term problem that can not be fixed without removal or separation. These are not animals like a dog or cat that can be trained to have a certain disposition. As I've explained, you have a bad combination of fish in a tank that is too small for them. Nothing is going to change that until you change something ( i.e. fish removal, a larger tank, fish deaths. ) You can ask the question as many different ways you want and ask as many different people as you want. The knowledgeable people will tell you the same thing as I have. You have fish that are too big in a tank that is too small and you have the wrong combination of fish in too small of a tank which is why the Parrot is harassing the Dollars when they are eating and the end result is he is damaging the Dollars. If you can't do anything about this situation, you have to accept the end results of that decision. There is no magic pill you can give the fish, no stretchability in the glass to make the tank larger, no magic spell you can cast on the fish that is going to help you. As Walter Cronkite used to say" And that's the way it is. " ;)

As for a divider, I'm guessing they don't make a divider specifically for bowfront tanks but I would ask your local store or where you bought the tank if they do. You may need to have one specially made. It can be of acrylic or glass or what I was thinking was eggcrate panel that would have to be custom cut to fit. TBH tho, it sounds like the divider idea is going to be too much for you . If you can gather the strength to net the parrot and put him in a bucket, take him to the store and rehome him because the hard part is already done. (y)
 
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The plants take up nitrates and nutrients from the roots and leaves. If there are no nutrients in the air, then the roots will do the job.

Carbon removes organic matter so things like Tannins, Gases like Carbon Dioxide & Methane, the materials that darken water from fish waste over time ad such. The amount of carbon in a filter cartridge is not going to remove all these things all the time. Think of it as a sponge. Once you moisten a sponge, water is not taking over areas inside the sponge so that the sponge itself can't hold as much water as it did when it was dry. The more water in the sponge, the less new water the sponge can absorb. In the end tho, water changes can do more than the carbon does.
Thank you for explaining this

Regarding the other topics:
Getting more fish for your tank will only make things worse not better so get rid of that idea. The fish stopping eating because the Parrot harasses them is a long term problem that can not be fixed without removal or separation. These are not animals like a dog or cat that can be trained to have a certain disposition. As I've explained, you have a bad combination of fish in a tank that is too small for them. Nothing is going to change that until you change something ( i.e. fish removal, a larger tank, fish deaths. ) You can ask the question as many different ways you want and ask as many different people as you want. The knowledgeable people will tell you the same thing as I have. You have fish that are too big in a tank that is too small and you have the wrong combination of fish in too small of a tank which is why the Parrot is harassing the Dollars when they are eating and the end result is he is damaging the Dollars. If you can't do anything about this situation, you have to accept the end results of that decision. There is no magic pill you can give the fish, no stretchability in the glass to make the tank larger, no magic spell you can cast on the fish that is going to help you. As Walter Cronkite used to say" And that's the way it is. " ;)

As for a divider, I'm guessing they don't make a divider specifically for bowfront tanks but I would ask your local store or where you bought the tank if they do. You may need to have one specially made. It can be of acrylic or glass or what I was thinking was eggcrate panel that would have to be custom cut to fit. TBH tho, it sounds like the divider idea is going to be too much for you . If you can gather the strength to net the parrot and put him in a bucket, take him to the store and rehome him because the hard part is already done. (y)

I just finished bawling my eyes out. I'm just so heartbroken about the whole situation and the thought of rehoming him. Or even taking him out of my tank. I love my fish and ten years of raising them makes me care very much about them.

My question is, if I would set up a new tank for him (although I don't know where I'd put it, I literally have no space) what would be the process..?? A new tank isn't cycled and I am so afraid of messing him up due to bad water quality and issues that arise in a new tank, etc. I could use my current tank water, but what about a filter, etc....? I currently use the Eheim Classic Canister filter and it's supposedly one of the best ones out there. It's been holding up a solid biosystem for nearly 10 years now, and I have no idea how I could provide that to my parrot in a new tank with a different type of filtration system, etc. I am so confused and so lost and so deeply heartbroken. And I am very tight in money now so to invest in an entire, new eheim system is just something that I can't see myself doing, either. My LFS said he would see if there's a used filter he could lend me until I figure things out, and at the moment I only have a 10-gallon tank I could put my parrot into, but at least it would give my silver dollars a chance to rejuvenate and de-stress and start eating again and be healthy.

Would it be possible for you to explain to me exactly how to do it in a way that the "new tank syndrome" (or whatever it's called) doesn't kick in and I don't have to stress about the well-being of my parrot, except to do water changes...? Is that even possible....??? Gosh. I'm running a really hectic lifestyle as it is, which is another reason why I didn't want to have to open another tank so I don't neglect things, which I'm very concerned about. I need to do this right. This is so stressful :cry:

Thank you and I really hope you know how I can figure this out because I'm truly heartbroken. At the moment, my tank is peaceful because it's mostly dark in the room. But I am scared every day as soon as it's light out.

P.s. Do you know if this filter is a good filter, or totally not...? It has the beads for building the biosystem, and it's quiet, which is why it's appealing to me. But could it uphold the water quality that I'm able to with the Eheim?

 
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I can explain the process but truthfully, looking at the size of the parrot in your previous pictures, a 10 gallon tank is most likely not going to hold him for long. A fish that big should be in at least a 36" - 48" long tank. A 10 gallon tank is only 20" long.
What's your plan B?
 
I don't know my plan B yet because I haven't even figured out my plan A yet :cry: but I do know that if my female SD (Bumpy Fish) is not eating, that's not good at all and they're all being harassed so I'm kind of desperate. I have an empty 20-gallon tank but a few years ago it had a light leak which I need to fix before I could use it again. So that's not ready, either, and I don't know how soon I can get it ready.. but I would try. Definitely not before a bunch of weeks, I don't even know. I'm so overwhelmed right now. I'm just extremely desperate for my silver dollars to be okay. Do you know if hopefully Bumpy Fish is eating even if I don't see it...?? :cry:
 
I don't know my plan B yet because I haven't even figured out my plan A yet :cry: but I do know that if my female SD (Bumpy Fish) is not eating, that's not good at all and they're all being harassed so I'm kind of desperate. I have an empty 20-gallon tank but a few years ago it had a light leak which I need to fix before I could use it again. So that's not ready, either, and I don't know how soon I can get it ready.. but I would try. Definitely not before a bunch of weeks, I don't even know. I'm so overwhelmed right now. I'm just extremely desperate for my silver dollars to be okay. Do you know if hopefully Bumpy Fish is eating even if I don't see it...?? :cry:
It's possible but there is no way for me or you to know for sure unless you can set up a web cam or something to record the tank. If she looks like she's getting skinny again, then she's not getting enough food.
 
It's possible but there is no way for me or you to know for sure unless you can set up a web cam or something to record the tank. If she looks like she's getting skinny again, then she's not getting enough food.
So what can I do, how do I set up a new tank that can immediately house my blood parrot without jeopardizing him due to it being a new tank, new filter, etc. I'm so lost and devastated - my silver dollar must eat immediately -- I don't know what to do anymore! My only option at the moment is the 10-gallon tank, I don't know what else to do. I even asked my LFS if he could home him temporarily but he doesn't have an empty tank available. So even if he does it, it would be the same process of setting up a new tank, but I don't trust that he would know 100% rules of how to do it, the way you would know. He basically said, oh, just use your current tank water and that's what's gonna cycle in the new filter...so it should be fine... etc.
 
Does this mean that it's enough if the roots are in the water? It's not the leaves that absorb the nitrates?
Yes. That's correct.

Most commonly kept aquarium plants aren't that good at consuming nitrate. There are low CO2 levels, low nutrient levels, low light levels etc. While they will take up some nitrate, unless your aquarium is stacked with plants, and you have hardly any fish, you won't notice the amount they are using through your test kit. They won't make any appreciable dent in the nitrate levels your fish are producing.

Where submerged plants are going to take up a lot of nitrate, they are high demand plants, needing specialist lighting to get light levels really high, injected CO2 to keep the CO2 levels high, and a nutrient dosing regime so they get the essential nutrients they need alongside the nitrogen from your nitrate.

So then we get to surface plants and terrestrial plants like pothos. They are at the surface where CO2 and light is abundant. So the nutrient demand is high and these will pull out a lot of nitrate. They might pull out so much that they need additional nitrogen dosing into the water to keep the plants healthy.
 
So what's the point of the carbon filter? And which filter helps ammonia?
Thanks
Really the point of carbon is to get you to spend money on carbon.

Carbon has limited uses. It removes some chemical impurities, generally organic compounds, like tannins and phenols. It will remove medication from the water once you end a medication period. If you think something might have got in the water, like aerosol fumes maybe, do a big water change and get some carbon in the filtration. Most of the situations that carbon is useful are temporary, use it to deal with a specific issue, then remove the carbon. It's expensive and 99% of the time it doesn't do anything useful, and it only does a job for a couple of weeks before it gets filled and needs replacing. Always useful to keep some carbon in storage should the need arise though.

What filter media helps ammonia? Your biomedia. These are the ceramic rings (or similar) in your filtration, and your sponges. This is where the microbes that consume the ammonia and turn it into nitrate live and grow.
 
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Just wanted to stick this in here for future readers etc. If you are giving your fish veggies try to purchase organic veggies as they are supposed to be grown without the use of chemicals. Wash, blanch and peel (if applicable) before feeding. If you are using non-organic veggies, always peel squash, carrots, cucumbers etc. Do not feed the peelings of veggies. Blanch, cool, feed. Any remaining veggies in aquarium should be removed manually after 24 hours. Some after 12 hours. Rule of thumb is the harder the veggie the longer you can leave it. You can prepare and freeze fish veggies for up to 3 months
 
So what can I do, how do I set up a new tank that can immediately house my blood parrot without jeopardizing him due to it being a new tank, new filter, etc. I'm so lost and devastated - my silver dollar must eat immediately -- I don't know what to do anymore! My only option at the moment is the 10-gallon tank, I don't know what else to do. I even asked my LFS if he could home him temporarily but he doesn't have an empty tank available. So even if he does it, it would be the same process of setting up a new tank, but I don't trust that he would know 100% rules of how to do it, the way you would know. He basically said, oh, just use your current tank water and that's what's gonna cycle in the new filter...so it should be fine... etc.
Here's how you cycle a tank quickly: Set up the new tank with new water that has the similar parameters ( pH, ammonia, nitrite and Temperature) to your main tank. Set up a new filter and add some of the filter material from your existing filter to the new filter. ( In your case, if you have multiple pads in your old filter, you can replace 1 whole pad without doing damage to your main tank as you are going to be reducing the amount of ammonia production. If you only have 1 pad in your old filter, remove about 1/3 of the pad for the new filter and then replace the missing part of the pad with either new filter pad or filter floss.)
What all this does is move some of the nitrifying microbes from the one filter to the other so that they exist in now both tanks and each colony in both tanks will reproduce to catch up to the amount of ammonia present. In most cases, that happens in 24-48 hours. In a tank with new water, it usually takes longer than that for ammonia to get a toxic level. In your case, because you will be putting a large fish into a small tank, you should test ammonia daily and do water changes if necessary.

Re the filter you linked, you can use the one for the 20-50 gallon tank but they run by an air pump so if you don't have one, you will need to get an Air pump, airline tubing, 2 way valve ( or larger) and the filter. The valve is to control the amount of air going into the filter. The valve allows you to bleed off the excess back pressure which will make your air pump run quieter and last longer. (y)
 
Here's how you cycle a tank quickly: Set up the new tank with new water that has the similar parameters ( pH, ammonia, nitrite and Temperature) to your main tank.
First, thank you so much for explaining this. I have a few questions. When you say "new water", can I use my current tank water? It would make me feel a lot calmer knowing it matches everything right from the start.
Set up a new filter and add some of the filter material from your existing filter to the new filter. ( In your case, if you have multiple pads in your old filter, you can replace 1 whole pad without doing damage to your main tank as you are going to be reducing the amount of ammonia production. If you only have 1 pad in your old filter, remove about 1/3 of the pad for the new filter and then replace the missing part of the pad with either new filter pad or filter floss.)
I have questions about the above so I'll explain in detail:

I have the Eheim Classic 2215 Canister filter (I think it's the 2215) so there's the following layers of filtration:

All the way on the bottom there's this (or extremely similar):

on top of that, there's this media (or extremely similar) in a mesh bag:

Above that there's a white sponge, and above that the carbon filter.

So my question is, I wouldn't wanna touch any of that media... is it enough if I use a piece of the carbon and white pad in the new filter? Although then I'd probably have to replace both pads in my Eheim filter. This is why I asked you about that filter I linked, because it seems to be most similar to what I have (except on a much smaller scale) and working with the same kind of system as the Eheim. Am I making sense? Do you agree it's a good option, better than the regular hanging filters that make a bunch of noise?

Also, I had removed some of my gravel (before I saw your response that I shouldn't remove it) so I have that to add to the new tank. Not a huge amount at all, though. However, I did not keep it wet; it has dried out since. I did not rinse it, though. So whatever came out of the tank with it, is there. Are the healthy bacteria dead on those gravels? Or once it gets wet it gets reactivated? And if so, how do you then advise in terms of using media from my current filter... is it still necessary, etc?

I also have a tiny little fake plant in the tank that I could transfer over. It probably has stuff in it by now; it's there for years. Also, I had put some crushed coral in a mesh bag at some point (my PH was low.. haven't checked it in a while actually...) so I could put some of that also into the tank since it probably holds good bacteria by now.. am I correct with all this?

Also, my LFS said they have a used filter I could use... should I take that (I don't know which kind it is yet) or do you feel the link I sent you is a good choice...?

What all this does is move some of the nitrifying microbes from the one filter to the other so that they exist in now both tanks and each colony in both tanks will reproduce to catch up to the amount of ammonia present. In most cases, that happens in 24-48 hours. In a tank with new water, it usually takes longer than that for ammonia to get a toxic level. In your case, because you will be putting a large fish into a small tank, you should test ammonia daily and do water changes if necessary.
For how long do I need to test it daily until the cycle catches up and I don't have to worry about it spiking, etc?

Re the filter you linked, you can use the one for the 20-50 gallon tank but they run by an air pump so if you don't have one, you will need to get an Air pump, airline tubing, 2 way valve ( or larger) and the filter. The valve is to control the amount of air going into the filter. The valve allows you to bleed off the excess back pressure which will make your air pump run quieter and last longer. (y)
I believe I have an air pump. My little tank is a 10-gal, do I need to worry that this might be too strong? I think I have the smaller version also, it doesn't have 2 compartments, only one. With the filtration media, etc.
The valve you're talking about is the little black thing that connects the two tubes together, yes? (one going from the pump to the valve, the other going from valve to the tank)

I put cucumber peels for my fish, Bumpy Fish is not even coming to eat from it :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: I would give blood worms soon, but that also my Blood Parrot dominates. And I didn't set up that other tank yet. I'm so terrified, I can't begin to tell you how terrified and miserable I am about this.
 
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First, thank you so much for explaining this. I have a few questions. When you say "new water", can I use my current tank water? It would make me feel a lot calmer knowing it matches everything right from the start.
New water is better but if you use tank water, you can tell how well the microbes are working by judging the nitrate level. Know what it is when you first add the fish and then test daily ( along with ammonia ) and see if it's going up. If it is, then you have an active microbe bed. When that happens, you should see no ammonia and rising nitrates.
I have questions about the above so I'll explain in detail:

I have the Eheim Classic 2215 Canister filter (I think it's the 2215) so there's the following layers of filtration:

All the way on the bottom there's this (or extremely similar):

on top of that, there's this media (or extremely similar) in a mesh bag:

Above that there's a white sponge, and above that the carbon filter.

So my question is, I wouldn't wanna touch any of that media... is it enough if I use a piece of the carbon and white pad in the new filter? Although then I'd probably have to replace both pads in my Eheim filter. This is why I asked you about that filter I linked, because it seems to be most similar to what I have (except on a much smaller scale) and working with the same kind of system as the Eheim. Am I making sense? Do you agree it's a good option, better than the regular hanging filters that make a bunch of noise?
Neither a HOB or a corner filter is a great option because the fish is too big for the tank and will probably mess with either. The inside filter is a better compromise because the worst that can happen is he dumps the filter material in the tank while if he attacks the HOB, it can drain onto the floor. As long as it's in the tank, it will keep the microbes alive until you fix the filter. I see there are two ways of setting up that Eheim filter. ( Function; Installation; Maintenance - EHEIM classic 2215 Manual [Page 3] ) I was hoping you had the set up in B but it sounds like you have B1. If that's the case, use a good handful of the Pro-biological filter material in the new filter and replace what you took out with either more of the same or filter floss or pad. That's there the microbes would be in your filter.
Also, I had removed some of my gravel (before I saw your response that I shouldn't remove it) so I have that to add to the new tank. Not a huge amount at all, though. However, I did not keep it wet; it has dried out since. I did not rinse it, though. So whatever came out of the tank with it, is there. Are the healthy bacteria dead on those gravels? Or once it gets wet it gets reactivated? And if so, how do you then advise in terms of using media from my current filter... is it still necessary, etc?
Once the gravel dried out, nothing on it would be alive so you need to wash it thoroughly before reusing or else you risk contaminating the tank.
I also have a tiny little fake plant in the tank that I could transfer over. It probably has stuff in it by now; it's there for years. Also, I had put some crushed coral in a mesh bag at some point (my PH was low.. haven't checked it in a while actually...) so I could put some of that also into the tank since it probably holds good bacteria by now.. am I correct with all this?
Maybe the fake plant can keep him occupied. As for there being any nitrifying microbes, just because it's in the water does not mean things will grow on it. Nitrifying microbes are dependent on oxygen and are only found in quantity where there is high oxygen levels in the water. ( This is why the filter has the most microbes. ) If the plant is not in an area like that, it just has biofilm on it and of no biological value.
Also, my LFS said they have a used filter I could use... should I take that (I don't know which kind it is yet) or do you feel the link I sent you is a good choice...?
Since I have no idea what kind of filter you are talking about, I can't say yes or no but how I explained how to set up the new filter above applies to any new filter that's not a sponge filter. With a sponge filter, it's better using a pad to attach to the sponge so that water flows through them both.
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For how long do I need to test it daily until the cycle catches up and I don't have to worry about it spiking, etc?
At least a week or two. When you see no ammonia and rising nitrates, you'll know that the microbe bed is caught up and then you just need to worry about too much nitrates.
I believe I have an air pump. My little tank is a 10-gal, do I need to worry that this might be too strong? I think I have the smaller version also, it doesn't have 2 compartments, only one. With the filtration media, etc.
The valve you're talking about is the little black thing that connects the two tubes together, yes? (one going from the pump to the valve, the other going from valve to the tank)
Unless it's got more than one way to control air flow, it's not what I'm talking about. This is a gang valve: 1738716205600.png This happens to be a 5 way gang valve but they come in sizes from 2 way valves to 10 way or larger valves. You run a line from your air pump to the side nipple of the valve. Attach airline to one of the top nipples and attach to your filter. Using this 5 way as an example, open the one valve that is attached to the filter all the way and close all the rest of the valves. Plug in the air pump. The filter should be bubbling too strong if you have too big an air pump so you slowly open any one of the closed valves ( now called the bleeder valve) until the filter is bubbling correctly. If the bleeder valve is totally open and the filter is still bubbling too strong, open a second valve slowly until the filter is functioning correctly and so on. If you just have a one way valve, you are creating back pressure on the pump when you adjust the level and THAT is what kills pumps ( actually the diaphragms inside the pump. )
I put cucumber peels for my fish, Bumpy Fish is not even coming to eat from it :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: I would give blood worms soon, but that also my Blood Parrot dominates. And I didn't set up that other tank yet. I'm so terrified, I can't begin to tell you how terrified and miserable I am about this.
Well, buck up!!! ;) ;) You being terrified and miserable is not helping the fish at all. You doing the work will. (y) I will however add a little salt in the wound ;) because if you did this weeks ago when it was suggested, the Dollars would be in better shape by now. So stop reading this and start doing the work. ;) :clown:
 
New water is better but if you use tank water, you can tell how well the microbes are working by judging the nitrate level. Know what it is when you first add the fish and then test daily ( along with ammonia ) and see if it's going up. If it is, then you have an active microbe bed. When that happens, you should see no ammonia and rising nitrates.
Do I have to panic if the ammonia goes up...? Or is this expected until the microbe bed is active? (gosh, all these fancy words I'm learning). And if so, what level of ammonia is okay to expect, and what level would be alarming?
Neither a HOB or a corner filter is a great option because the fish is too big for the tank and will probably mess with either. The inside filter is a better compromise because the worst that can happen is he dumps the filter material in the tank while if he attacks the HOB, it can drain onto the floor. As long as it's in the tank, it will keep the microbes alive until you fix the filter. I see there are two ways of setting up that Eheim filter. ( Function; Installation; Maintenance - EHEIM classic 2215 Manual [Page 3] ) I was hoping you had the set up in B but it sounds like you have B1. If that's the case, use a good handful of the Pro-biological filter material in the new filter and replace what you took out with either more of the same or filter floss or pad. That's there the microbes would be in your filter.
I never realized there are 2 setups to the Eheim Classic 2215... I'll check it out. My LFS had set it up for me. That being said, the new filter for the 10-gal is really small. I don't know if what you call a "handful" would fit into the section that has the pro-biological material. But I guess that's good enough? Also, I don't have any more of that material to replace what I take out.. that's why I was hoping I won't have to remove any from my Eheim... but you're saying it's the only and safest way?

Also, the "new" filter is a filter I've used in the past. I did order a brand new one, though, just in case. Can I use the "used" one and rinse sponge and carbon filter well, with regular water? Or do you strongly advise using the brand new filter? (it's the one I sent you in the link)

Also, can I use the sponges it comes with, or do I have to also take a piece of that from my Eheim...? (I'm hoping the media is enough...?)
Once the gravel dried out, nothing on it would be alive so you need to wash it thoroughly before reusing or else you risk contaminating the tank.
What a shame that I didn't keep it wet.

Maybe the fake plant can keep him occupied. As for there being any nitrifying microbes, just because it's in the water does not mean things will grow on it. Nitrifying microbes are dependent on oxygen and are only found in quantity where there is high oxygen levels in the water. ( This is why the filter has the most microbes. ) If the plant is not in an area like that, it just has biofilm on it and of no biological value.
Ohh... so I guess this means there's no point in me transferring some of the crushed coral..? Or can it make somewhat of a difference...? It's just sitting on the gravel in a mesh bag.

At least a week or two. When you see no ammonia and rising nitrates, you'll know that the microbe bed is caught up and then you just need to worry about too much nitrates.

Unless it's got more than one way to control air flow, it's not what I'm talking about. This is a gang valve: View attachment 391374 This happens to be a 5 way gang valve but they come in sizes from 2 way valves to 10 way or larger valves. You run a line from your air pump to the side nipple of the valve. Attach airline to one of the top nipples and attach to your filter. Using this 5 way as an example, open the one valve that is attached to the filter all the way and close all the rest of the valves. Plug in the air pump. The filter should be bubbling too strong if you have too big an air pump so you slowly open any one of the closed valves ( now called the bleeder valve) until the filter is bubbling correctly. If the bleeder valve is totally open and the filter is still bubbling too strong, open a second valve slowly until the filter is functioning correctly and so on. If you just have a one way valve, you are creating back pressure on the pump when you adjust the level and THAT is what kills pumps ( actually the diaphragms inside the pump. )
Thanks for explaining the above. I will study it and try to set it up correctly. I do have the valve piece you're talking about..
Well, buck up!!! ;) ;) You being terrified and miserable is not helping the fish at all. You doing the work will. (y) I will however add a little salt in the wound ;) because if you did this weeks ago when it was suggested, the Dollars would be in better shape by now. So stop reading this and start doing the work. ;) :clown:
I knowwwwwwwwww :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: I'm kicking myself terribly for that!!! I've been so consumed with the hospital stuff and all that craziness, that I don't even know how I could have done it back then, but I truly wish I did.

Tonight I will prepare a spot for the 10-gallon (my house is tiny). I don't want to bother my fish now (I've been so scared not to stress them out even more) so I guess in the morning I will do a water change and use the removed water for the 10-gallon tank. Oh, and I'll have to remove some of the media from the Eheim but I'm waiting to see your response above to my questions regarding that.

So, once I did all that and the heater is in and the water is basically around the same temperature, are you saying it's safe to net my parrot and drop him into the new tank...? And I don't need to panic doing that....? I'm gonna have to put him in a pail first because the new tank will have to be in a different room. Ugh this whole thing sucks!! :(

By the way thanks for your support. I feel so lost and actually so sad. I'm really hoping that once the bully is out of the tank, my silver dollars will liven up and start relaxing and eating again? Mainly my large one (Bumpy Fish) hasn't been eating. :( I really hope they all become their happy selves again. But also, I hope my blood parrot will do greatly in the new tank. I'm terrified. (no point in being terrified! I know, I know.. lol)

Oh-- another thing -- I know we've discussed Prime & Stability.. I do use those every time I do a water change. Should I be adding Stability daily for the first week? According to the label I think that's what needs to be done in a "new" tank but is this not gonna be considered "new" since I'm using some of the cycled material?
 
Do I have to panic if the ammonia goes up...? Or is this expected until the microbe bed is active? (gosh, all these fancy words I'm learning). And if so, what level of ammonia is okay to expect, and what level would be alarming?
You don't have to panic but if the ammonia level goes higher than .25 PPM, do a water change to bring it down but not down to zero.
I never realized there are 2 setups to the Eheim Classic 2215... I'll check it out. My LFS had set it up for me. That being said, the new filter for the 10-gal is really small. I don't know if what you call a "handful" would fit into the section that has the pro-biological material. But I guess that's good enough? Also, I don't have any more of that material to replace what I take out.. that's why I was hoping I won't have to remove any from my Eheim... but you're saying it's the only and safest way?
I may be missing something here but you should be taking a handful of the pro-biological material OUT of the eheim and putting it INTO the new filter. Get some new material as soon as reasonably possible. The sooner the better so that the microbes have more area to colonize. (y) And YES, it's the best way of doing this because it already contains the microbes you are trying to create.
Also, the "new" filter is a filter I've used in the past. I did order a brand new one, though, just in case. Can I use the "used" one and rinse sponge and carbon filter well, with regular water? Or do you strongly advise using the brand new filter? (it's the one I sent you in the link)
What is your old filter?
Also, can I use the sponges it comes with, or do I have to also take a piece of that from my Eheim...? (I'm hoping the media is enough...?)
Show me the filter.
What a shame that I didn't keep it wet.
It didn't need to just be wet, it also needed to be oxygenated.
Ohh... so I guess this means there's no point in me transferring some of the crushed coral..? Or can it make somewhat of a difference...? It's just sitting on the gravel in a mesh bag.
No point indeed.
Thanks for explaining the above. I will study it and try to set it up correctly. I do have the valve piece you're talking about..
You'd be surprised how many people don't use them and then bitch and moan about their air pumps not lasting. I have 30 year old pumps that still work. I wonder why? ;) ;)
I knowwwwwwwwww :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: I'm kicking myself terribly for that!!! I've been so consumed with the hospital stuff and all that craziness, that I don't even know how I could have done it back then, but I truly wish I did.
Don't kick too hard, you have work to do. ;)
Tonight I will prepare a spot for the 10-gallon (my house is tiny). I don't want to bother my fish now (I've been so scared not to stress them out even more) so I guess in the morning I will do a water change and use the removed water for the 10-gallon tank. Oh, and I'll have to remove some of the media from the Eheim but I'm waiting to see your response above to my questions regarding that.

So, once I did all that and the heater is in and the water is basically around the same temperature, are you saying it's safe to net my parrot and drop him into the new tank...? And I don't need to panic doing that....? I'm gonna have to put him in a pail first because the new tank will have to be in a different room. Ugh this whole thing sucks!! :(
For what it's worth, doing it at night while the fish is asleep is actually easier because the fish will be easier to catch asleep. I don't want to alarm you but for safety reasons, it's best to set the tank up and let it sit for 24 hours to make sure it's not going to break on the stand if it's not level or if it leaks. ( I'm a real "better safe than sorry" guy.) The worst thing you can do is have to put the parrot back into the Dollar's tank if the other tank should leak. You might want to set it up tonight or tomorrow morning and fill with regular water to test the tank then drain the tank at night and move the water and fish once you know the tank is still good.
By the way thanks for your support. I feel so lost and actually so sad.
I'm not sure why you are lost. I've been giving you a map to follow. ;) ;)
I'm really hoping that once the bully is out of the tank, my silver dollars will liven up and start relaxing and eating again? Mainly my large one (Bumpy Fish) hasn't been eating. :( I really hope they all become their happy selves again.
That's the plan. Hopefully it's not too late to work. (y)
But also, I hope my blood parrot will do greatly in the new tank. I'm terrified. (no point in being terrified! I know, I know.. lol)

Oh-- another thing -- I know we've discussed Prime & Stability.. I do use those every time I do a water change. Should I be adding Stability daily for the first week?
You shouldn't need to. You are already adding the microbes. You do need to use the PRIME when adding new water.
According to the label I think that's what needs to be done in a "new" tank but is this not gonna be considered "new" since I'm using some of the cycled material?
Correct, it's not a " new" tank anymore.
 
You don't have to panic but if the ammonia level goes higher than .25 PPM, do a water change to bring it down but not down to zero.
Omg - first, I just wanna say that I really appreciate your humor; it makes me laugh amidst this stress, and it also makes me feel like perhaps I'm not a terrible person by having (very UNintentionally) allowed this situation to happen with my fish... and it gives me courage to do what I gotta do and hopefully not freak out.

Thanks for the clarification on the ammonia. Do I also have to check my nitrites? Or it's enough if I monitor ammonia and nitrates?

I may be missing something here but you should be taking a handful of the pro-biological material OUT of the eheim and putting it INTO the new filter. Get some new material as soon as reasonably possible. The sooner the better so that the microbes have more area to colonize. (y) And YES, it's the best way of doing this because it already contains the microbes you are trying to create.
Okay so I guess I'll take some of the below media out of my Eheim Canister filter. More of the balls than the white stuff I think..

Also, I'm wondering if I should take the media from the new filter and put it into the Eheim so it builds bacteria, and at some point switch it back? Or rather not switch things around? This way perhaps I don't have to buy a huge bundle of this stuff to replace a tiny little amount....?

1738735718566.png1738736361963.png

What is your old filter? Show me the filter.
This is the filter:

As you can see, it has a very small compartment for the media.. although, perhaps this is enough? I'll try to fit in as much as possible but it's small.

Also, it has the white sponge, a black mesh-like sponge, and a carbon filter. Interestingly, the used one of this has the white sponge on the top. I'm not sure why it's pictured on the bottom in the one below. Perhaps you'd know which is the correct way?

Here's the link in case you wanna read up on the details of this filter:
716H8CsJAjL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

I have one like this that I've already used in the past, not too much, though. Just as part of my hospital tank. Is it okay if I use that, or do I have to use a new one? If you say it's okay, is it enough if I just rinse the sponges and media with regular water?

It didn't need to just be wet, it also needed to be oxygenated.
Such interesting pieces of information that I never realized!

You'd be surprised how many people don't use them and then bitch and moan about their air pumps not lasting. I have 30 year old pumps that still work. I wonder why? ;) ;)
A pump that's 30 years old!!!??? Wow. I hope I'll get to say that on all my fish ;) hehe.
And, indeed, I had bought a powerful Tetra whisper pump with 2 outputs and it flooded and broke. I was very frustrated. To say the least. Yeah, that was probably me bitching. :lol:
Don't kick too hard, you have work to do. ;)
Thanks for the encouragement and support!! :cool: and for putting the humor in.
For what it's worth, doing it at night while the fish is asleep is actually easier because the fish will be easier to catch asleep.
Oh. Very good point. The reason I didn't wanna do it at night is because I don't wanna disturb them, especially now when they get so bullied, I can only relax at night knowing that hopefully most of the night they all sleep. But you're right. The problem is, I haven't yet set up the tank because I need to work on it by day, with all the filter stuff, etc. :sneaky: So there goes yet another day that I'm worried for my fish that's not eating. Ugh.

I don't want to alarm you but for safety reasons, it's best to set the tank up and let it sit for 24 hours to make sure it's not going to break on the stand if it's not level or if it leaks. ( I'm a real "better safe than sorry" guy.) The worst thing you can do is have to put the parrot back into the Dollar's tank if the other tank should leak. You might want to set it up tonight or tomorrow morning and fill with regular water to test the tank then drain the tank at night and move the water and fish once you know the tank is still good.
Yikes! Wait an entire 24 hours?? And yes, that possibility is scary..!
Thing is, this tank is fairly new. Barely used, only as a hospital tank from time to time, and maybe in the beginning when I bought my dollars and parrots, till I set up the 36-gallon. So I don't see why it would leak 🙈 but perhaps I can set it up tomorrow by day (it's gonna take time to set up) with the tank water, filter, heater, etc. and if by nighttime it's fine, can I then transfer my parrot..? (I'm terrified of that part Omg. I don't wanna harm him or stress him). I'm just so worried that yet another day is passing by with him still in there... Okay I'm gonna try to stay positive. I'm doing what needs to be done. It's a process..

I'm not sure why you are lost. I've been giving you a map to follow. ;) ;)
Ha!! Literally!! You've literally been a lifesaver. I have no words to thank you!! And you're right, you're mapping it out piece by piece. I wanted to tell you that I appreciate so much that you're taking the time to read all the details I'm telling you and asking, and you're giving me guidance by breaking it down for me in so much detail so that I have clarity on what to do. I guess my brain and emotions are just so overloaded that it makes me feel lost. But I'm not. ;) hopefully this will be a great survival story to tell! That after surviving the nitrate poisoning, they also survived their bully tankmate and lived many more happy and healthy years. And my parrot also. :)
That's the plan. Hopefully it's not too late to work. (y)
Not too late to work.....? I'm afraid to ask what you mean by that...🙈🙈 Yikes! I'm not asking.... I'm just gonna hope for the absolute best scenario and outcome...... they're all gonna regain their appetite and happiness and they'll gain weight and live forever. Right????
 
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