Nitrate poisoning and I'm desperate to save my fish!!!! Please help...

[Andy Sager]

Omg - first, I just wanna say that I really appreciate your humor; it makes me laugh amidst this stress, and it also makes me feel like perhaps I'm not a terrible person by having (very UNintentionally) allowed this situation to happen with my fish... and it gives me courage to do what I gotta do and hopefully not freak out.

Life ain't worth living if you can't laugh a bit.

Thanks for the clarification on the ammonia. Do I also have to check my nitrites? Or it's enough if I monitor ammonia and nitrates?

If your ammonia is lowering and your nitrate is rising, there shouldn't be appreciable nitrites with this process. Feel free to to check the nitrites if it will make you feel better but again, as long as the ammonia and nitrite levels combined are .25ppm or lower, the fish should be okay.

Okay so I guess I'll take some of the below media out of my Eheim Canister filter. More of the balls than the white stuff I think..

Also, I'm wondering if I should take the media from the new filter and put it into the Eheim so it builds bacteria, and at some point switch it back? Or rather not switch things around? This way perhaps I don't have to buy a huge bundle of this stuff to replace a tiny little amount....?

View attachment 391376View attachment 391379

No need to switch them back. Also, just use the bio media ( the one on the left here) , the rings will take up too much space. You need more surface area for the microbes not mechanical filtration.

This is the filter:

As you can see, it has a very small compartment for the media.. although, perhaps this is enough? I'll try to fit in as much as possible but it's small.

Also, it has the white sponge, a black mesh-like sponge, and a carbon filter. Interestingly, the used one of this has the white sponge on the top. I'm not sure why it's pictured on the bottom in the one below. Perhaps you'd know which is the correct way?

The filter works this way: Water is sucked into the filter from the top. It goes through the carbon filter first to remove chemicals ( ammonia, nitrite et al are chemicals) then the black mesh sponge takes out the bigger particles from the water then the finer materials get taken out by the white filter pad. You put the carbon on top because that one should be changed more often then the rest of the pads. What I would do is not use the carbon filter, take the black sponge out and use that whole area for the bio media from the Eheim. The microbes will leech from the bio media onto the white pad. When you clean the filter, do not scrub or replace the white pad. Lightly rinse off the white pad to remove just surface dirt and only replace when the white pad is falling apart.

Here's the link in case you wanna read up on the details of this filter:

Amazon.com

View attachment 391378

I have one like this that I've already used in the past, not too much, though. Just as part of my hospital tank. Is it okay if I use that, or do I have to use a new one? If you say it's okay, is it enough if I just rinse the sponges and media with regular water?

Never use just regular water for cleaning the filter pads as chlorine / chloramine can kill off your nitrifying microbes. For the first time back in use, rinse the white pad really well to get it as clean as possible before use.

Such interesting pieces of information that I never realized!

Keeping fish is so much more than just putting water into a box and adding fish.

A pump that's 30 years old!!!??? Wow. I hope I'll get to say that on all my fish hehe.
And, indeed, I had bought a powerful Tetra whisper pump with 2 outputs and it flooded and broke. I was very frustrated. To say the least. Yeah, that was probably me bitching.

That's what happens when you take care of your equipment. One of my oldest friends in the fish business once asked me " Do you EVER buy new equipment?? " I told him " Only when my old stuff breaks and I can't fix it, but you know I can fix almost anything. "

Thanks for the encouragement and support!! and for putting the humor in.

See my first reply at the top.

Oh. Very good point. The reason I didn't wanna do it at night is because I don't wanna disturb them, especially now when they get so bullied, I can only relax at night knowing that hopefully most of the night they all sleep. But you're right. The problem is, I haven't yet set up the tank because I need to work on it by day, with all the filter stuff, etc. So there goes yet another day that I'm worried for my fish that's not eating. Ugh.

Short term pain for long term gain. It would be more stressful for the fish for you to be chasing them around trying to catch the Parrot when he's wide awake.

Yikes! Wait an entire 24 hours?? And yes, that possibility is scary..!
Thing is, this tank is fairly new. Barely used, only as a hospital tank from time to time, and maybe in the beginning when I bought my dollars and parrots, till I set up the 36-gallon. So I don't see why it would leak

Sh*t happens. I've had tanks leak for a number of reasons. Poor workmanship, silicone dried out, tank wasn't level on the stand, stand collapsed, small piece of gravel was under the tank so the pressure against it caused the glass to break,,,,,,,so many things can happen which is why I'm overly preventative.

but perhaps I can set it up tomorrow by day (it's gonna take time to set up) with the tank water, filter, heater, etc. and if by nighttime it's fine, can I then transfer my parrot..?

The downside of doing it that way is that if the tank does leak, you've lost the water you want and you'd need to take more water from the big tank which means you will need to do the same work twice. I try not to over work myself.

(I'm terrified of that part Omg. I don't wanna harm him or stress him).

Catching the fish is going to stress him a bit. There's no way to avoid that. The faster you catch him, the less stress will be involved. YOU need to be in control. He'll get over it.

I'm just so worried that yet another day is passing by with him still in there... Okay I'm gonna try to stay positive. I'm doing what needs to be done. It's a process..


Ha!! Literally!! You've literally been a lifesaver. I have no words to thank you!!

Words , no. A million dollars in a Swiss bank account will do just fine.

And you're right, you're mapping it out piece by piece. I wanted to tell you that I appreciate so much that you're taking the time to read all the details I'm telling you and asking, and you're giving me guidance by breaking it down for me in so much detail so that I have clarity on what to do. I guess my brain and emotions are just so overloaded that it makes me feel lost. But I'm not. hopefully this will be a great survival story to tell! That after surviving the nitrate poisoning, they also survived their bully tankmate and lived many more happy and healthy years. And my parrot also.

Hopefully When you are dealing with living things, nothing is guaranteed.

Not too late to work.....? I'm afraid to ask what you mean by that... Yikes! I'm not asking.... I'm just gonna hope for the absolute best scenario and outcome...... they're all gonna regain their appetite and happiness and they'll gain weight and live forever. Right????

Hopefully. When you are dealing with living things, nothing is guaranteed.

 

[Libby1]

No need to switch them back. Also, just use the bio media ( the one on the left here) , the rings will take up too much space. You need more surface area for the microbes not mechanical filtration.

Okay. What should I do about replacing them in my Eheim.. I don't have replacement right now (nor am I necessarily looking for the expense of buying a whole new shipment of that, yikes).. is it crucial that I do it?
(maybe that sounds like a silly question....)

Update:
I have since ordered a pack of the bio media... not that I'm thrilled about the $36 expense while I'm only using a little bit, but I sense it's the smarter thing to do, and I guess can't hurt to have more of this media for later times...?

The filter works this way: Water is sucked into the filter from the top. It goes through the carbon filter first to remove chemicals ( ammonia, nitrite et al are chemicals) then the black mesh sponge takes out the bigger particles from the water then the finer materials get taken out by the white filter pad. You put the carbon on top because that one should be changed more often then the rest of the pads. What I would do is not use the carbon filter, take the black sponge out and use that whole area for the bio media from the Eheim. The microbes will leech from the bio media onto the white pad. When you clean the filter, do not scrub or replace the white pad. Lightly rinse off the white pad to remove just surface dirt and only replace when the white pad is falling apart.

Oh. I'm surprised you're telling me to remove the carbon filter altogether! I don't know why I was always under the impression (or told by a LFS) that the carbon filter helps with ammonia. Someone actually commented on this a few posts back, I'll go back to it and check.

So the thing is, one of the black sponges is a thick plastic kind, where I think the bacteria will find a good place to grow in. Can I leave that one in...? My Eheim also has it and I never remove it or replace it, it's there as media with the other media (on top of the other media actually) Also, it seems scary to not use the filter the way I have it, but I trust what you're saying.

Another thing, in the link I sent you of the filter, you can see that in the "single" filter the white pad is on the bottom, underneath the black pads.. but in the "double" filter of the same, the white pads are on top. So I'm actually confused which one is correct. I guess I would have to check how the water flows?

Update:
I checked how the filter works; it draws the air in from the pump, taking it down to the bottom which is where it flows through all the media to the top, where the bubble come out of the angled piece. So I guess this mean that the white sponge belongs on top. By the way, the white sponge seems to be not like a regular sponge, just more course. Is that something I should only rinse? Or will I have to replace that eventually?

Never use just regular water for cleaning the filter pads as chlorine / chloramine can kill off your nitrifying microbes. For the first time back in use, rinse the white pad really well to get it as clean as possible before use.

No, I never use regular water to rinse my filter pads. I use tank water. I was just asking about using this "used" filter for the first time.. if rinsing it with tap water is enough to clean it.

That's what happens when you take care of your equipment. One of my oldest friends in the fish business once asked me " Do you EVER buy new equipment?? " I told him " Only when my old stuff breaks and I can't fix it, but you know I can fix almost anything. "

That's awesome! I wish I can say the same about myself haha. I still have that pump that got flooded and I'm pretty sure it can be fixed..

Catching the fish is going to stress him a bit. There's no way to avoid that. The faster you catch him, the less stress will be involved. YOU need to be in control. He'll get over it.

You're right (of course). I'll have to remove the glass cover on top so I have easier access... I hope it won't stir them up. Oh, well. Gosh, the stress!!

Words , no. A million dollars in a Swiss bank account will do just fine.

Ha!!

 

[Aiken Drum]

It goes through the carbon filter first to remove chemicals ( ammonia, nitrite et al are chemicals)

Carbon does "not" remove ammonia, nitrite or nitrate.

 

[Libby1]

Carbon does "not" remove ammonia, nitrite or nitrate.

I was actually gonna go back to your previous post (back on this thread) and ask you about this.. I'll do so shortly so I could articulate my questions better. Thanks!

 

[Andy Sager]

Carbon does "not" remove ammonia, nitrite or nitrate.

Actually, according to multiple water companies, "
Does carbon remove chloramines?
This means that carbon filtration is the best removal method, and, contrary to urban legends, filter carbon does indeed remove chloramine. The problem is that it takes more carbon and more contact time to do the job. "
Considering chloramine is chlorine and ammonia, one can surmise that carbon can indeed, under the right circumstances remove some form of ammonia. So will carbon in a fish tank filter remove ammonia? Probably not or not enough to not use other means of removal because we usually have flow rates that are too quick.
I'm not really sure where I said that carbon removes nitrites or nitrates but I am not rereading this whole thread to find it. I'm too tired. I did say in post # 86, " Carbon removes organic matter so things like Tannins, Gases like Carbon Dioxide & Methane, the materials that darken water from fish waste over time ad such" ( it should have read and such. ) That said, if I did say nitrites and nitrates, consider it a senior moment. I do know that I would never recommend to someone to use carbon to remove them considering that I don't really recommend carbon over water changes on the whole. Hopefully no harm done.

 

[Libby1]

Okay. What should I do about replacing them in my Eheim.. I don't have replacement right now (nor am I necessarily looking for the expense of buying a whole new shipment of that, yikes).. is it crucial that I do it?
(maybe that sounds like a silly question....)

Update:
I have since ordered a pack of the bio media... not that I'm thrilled about the $36 expense while I'm only using a little bit, but I sense it's the smarter thing to do, and I guess can't hurt to have more of this media for later times...?

Oh. I'm surprised you're telling me to remove the carbon filter altogether! I don't know why I was always under the impression (or told by a LFS) that the carbon filter helps with ammonia. Someone actually commented on this a few posts back, I'll go back to it and check.

So the thing is, one of the black sponges is a thick plastic kind, where I think the bacteria will find a good place to grow in. Can I leave that one in...? My Eheim also has it and I never remove it or replace it, it's there as media with the other media (on top of the other media actually) Also, it seems scary to not use the filter the way I have it, but I trust what you're saying.

Another thing, in the link I sent you of the filter, you can see that in the "single" filter the white pad is on the bottom, underneath the black pads.. but in the "double" filter of the same, the white pads are on top. So I'm actually confused which one is correct. I guess I would have to check how the water flows?

Update:
I checked how the filter works; it draws the air in from the pump, taking it down to the bottom which is where it flows through all the media to the top, where the bubble come out of the angled piece. So I guess this mean that the white sponge belongs on top. By the way, the white sponge seems to be not like a regular sponge, just more course. Is that something I should only rinse? Or will I have to replace that eventually?


No, I never use regular water to rinse my filter pads. I use tank water. I was just asking about using this "used" filter for the first time.. if rinsing it with tap water is enough to clean it.


That's awesome! I wish I can say the same about myself haha. I still have that pump that got flooded and I'm pretty sure it can be fixed..


You're right (of course). I'll have to remove the glass cover on top so I have easier access... I hope it won't stir them up. Oh, well. Gosh, the stress!!

Ha!!

Okay --- quick update here (still would love to hear your responses on the above, though. Thanks)

At approx 5:45pm I finished setting up the new tank... (it took me 3 hours!!) I did what you told me, putting those balls into the filter. You're right, it's quite a handful of it so I guess that's good. I left the white sponge on top, and underneath it I did leave the black one that's rough. I removed the other black one so I could fit more of the balls in. Do I have to worry that I removed that handful of balls from my Eheim..? Can it throw things off in my large tank...??

Right now the tank is running; filter is getting water and air going through it (the bubbles are coming out of that piece on top) and the heater is slowly heating up the water so I can try to match the main tank's temperature. I hope it does the job well.

I haven't yet checked any of the parameters of either one of my tanks because I also did a water change on each, adding approx 25% fresh water. So I guess I'll wait for it to settle. I'm so nervous to check the details. Gosh, why am I so nervous about all this..

I am also TERRIFIED of transferring my parrot to the other tank. My net is barely as big as him, and I don't want to have to fight with him or spook the whole tank. I'm nauseous thinking of it. I hate stressing out my fish!! Any tips on how to do this swiftly and easily and safely? Thanks

It is so odd to note that although my fish got spooked a number of times as I was doing all the work, it almost feels like my silver dollars know that salvation is coming. Oddly, they are swimming around slightly better and seem a bit more confident. Weird, no? Could it be they sense that these moves are good moves...? I really hope this resolves the issue and they thrive beautifully. And that Bumpy Fish starts eating again and gains weight and health.

I'm very worried about my parrot, though, hoping that all works out amazingly now and for the future. I am anxious to know that the water quality will remain pristine, and that I can maintain it with basically weekly water changes. I'm also concerned he shouldn't feel stressed in so much of a smaller tank till I figure things out. Although, he will be the only one in there, so hopefully won't feel pressured that others are bothering his territory. And I added a bit of gravel (it only covers a small portion, though. Is it necessary that I add more?) and some little fake greens for him to play with. But I don't have a "hiding place" for him.. is there something I should be adding?

I literally can't believe I have two tanks now. This is the last thing i can imagine having the time to deal with. And the stress since I'm so concerned about everything working out. And now, two tanks. Not just one. I think I am low-key horrified.

 

[Andy Sager]

Okay --- quick update here (still would love to hear your responses on the above, though. Thanks)

At approx 5:45pm I finished setting up the new tank... (it took me 3 hours!!) I did what you told me, putting those balls into the filter. You're right, it's quite a handful of it so I guess that's good. I left the white sponge on top, and underneath it I did leave the black one that's rough. I removed the other black one so I could fit more of the balls in. Do I have to worry that I removed that handful of balls from my Eheim..? Can it throw things off in my large tank...??

Right now the tank is running; filter is getting water and air going through it (the bubbles are coming out of that piece on top) and the heater is slowly heating up the water so I can try to match the main tank's temperature. I hope it does the job well.

I haven't yet checked any of the parameters of either one of my tanks because I also did a water change on each, adding approx 25% fresh water. So I guess I'll wait for it to settle. I'm so nervous to check the details. Gosh, why am I so nervous about all this..

I am also TERRIFIED of transferring my parrot to the other tank. My net is barely as big as him, and I don't want to have to fight with him or spook the whole tank. I'm nauseous thinking of it. I hate stressing out my fish!! Any tips on how to do this swiftly and easily and safely? Thanks

It is so odd to note that although my fish got spooked a number of times as I was doing all the work, it almost feels like my silver dollars know that salvation is coming. Oddly, they are swimming around slightly better and seem a bit more confident. Weird, no? Could it be they sense that these moves are good moves...? I really hope this resolves the issue and they thrive beautifully. And that Bumpy Fish starts eating again and gains weight and health.

I'm very worried about my parrot, though, hoping that all works out amazingly now and for the future. I am anxious to know that the water quality will remain pristine, and that I can maintain it with basically weekly water changes. I'm also concerned he shouldn't feel stressed in so much of a smaller tank till I figure things out. Although, he will be the only one in there, so hopefully won't feel pressured that others are bothering his territory. And I added a bit of gravel (it only covers a small portion, though. Is it necessary that I add more?) and some little fake greens for him to play with. But I don't have a "hiding place" for him.. is there something I should be adding?

I literally can't believe I have two tanks now. This is the last thing i can imagine having the time to deal with. And the stress since I'm so concerned about everything working out. And now, two tanks. Not just one. I think I am low-key horrified.

I'm sorry but I couldn't even read your whole post because it's sooo far off base. The Dollars are probably feeling better because of the water change. They do not have the intelligence to know of things that are happening in another tank in another room . They are just not that smart. They can see a difference in their tank only after a change occurs, not before. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The parrotfish is not going to be happy in that 10 gallon tank. This is just a short term solution to save the Dollars until you do a long term solution for the Parrot. He may sulk, may stop eating for some time may even get sick over the move but YOU HAVE NO CHOICE if you want the Dollars to get better. If you want the Parrot to have a happy life, take him to the pet store so someone with the proper sized tank for him can get him or get him a larger more appropriate sized tank for him alone. You are not alone with Parrot issues. Read this thread: Need Advice - Tank Mate for Red Parrot Cichlid in 55G??
If you only have a smaller net, use something bigger to catch him. You can use a larger tupperware container, plastic bowl, a bigger plastic bag, or anything that is big enough to hold the fish without him getting a fin or spine stuck into it. You may even want to see if the pet store has a larger net they can lend to you or you can buy. Using equipment that is too small is not going to be easy on you and will be more stressful to the fish.

Regarding the filter in the 10, the white pad should be on the bottom ( underneath the bio balls) and the course black sponge should be on the top. You also need to replace the material taken from the Eheim in a reasonable amount of time. ( Not tonight but in the next couple of days. That's a reasonable amount of time. )
I've been as kind as I can be with your situations and I'm sorry to be blunt but you need to have a reality check here so you don't make the same mistakes in the future. Fish that get big do not stay small, even in a smaller tank, even if you get them small. All a smaller tank does is physically and emotionally hurt the fish. There are hundreds of species of fish available to the aquarium hobby that can fit in smaller tanks so there really is no excuse to put fish that grow large in smaller tanks past getting bad information or having delusions of them staying small. What you are experiencing is the result of one of these two. Now you know why YOU need to be more educated about your pets so that you don't expect things to happen that realistically won't or the odds of them working are astronomically not in your favor. A 10 gallon tank is too small for an adult Parrot so adding anything in the tank that takes up space is not helpful. The plastic plant can help him hide but in reality, it's like trying to hide a Gorilla behind a toothpick. So don't expect miracles.
Good luck with the move.

 

[Libby1]

I'm sorry but I couldn't even read your whole post because it's sooo far off base. The Dollars are probably feeling better because of the water change. They do not have the intelligence to know of things that are happening in another tank in another room . They are just not that smart. They can see a difference in their tank only after a change occurs, not before. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The parrotfish is not going to be happy in that 10 gallon tank. This is just a short term solution to save the Dollars until you do a long term solution for the Parrot. He may sulk, may stop eating for some time may even get sick over the move but YOU HAVE NO CHOICE if you want the Dollars to get better. If you want the Parrot to have a happy life, take him to the pet store so someone with the proper sized tank for him can get him or get him a larger more appropriate sized tank for him alone. You are not alone with Parrot issues. Read this thread: Need Advice - Tank Mate for Red Parrot Cichlid in 55G??
If you only have a smaller net, use something bigger to catch him. You can use a larger tupperware container, plastic bowl, a bigger plastic bag, or anything that is big enough to hold the fish without him getting a fin or spine stuck into it. You may even want to see if the pet store has a larger net they can lend to you or you can buy. Using equipment that is too small is not going to be easy on you and will be more stressful to the fish.

Regarding the filter in the 10, the white pad should be on the bottom ( underneath the bio balls) and the course black sponge should be on the top. You also need to replace the material taken from the Eheim in a reasonable amount of time. ( Not tonight but in the next couple of days. That's a reasonable amount of time. )
I've been as kind as I can be with your situations and I'm sorry to be blunt but you need to have a reality check here so you don't make the same mistakes in the future. Fish that get big do not stay small, even in a smaller tank, even if you get them small. All a smaller tank does is physically and emotionally hurt the fish. There are hundreds of species of fish available to the aquarium hobby that can fit in smaller tanks so there really is no excuse to put fish that grow large in smaller tanks past getting bad information or having delusions of them staying small. What you are experiencing is the result of one of these two. Now you know why YOU need to be more educated about your pets so that you don't expect things to happen that realistically won't or the odds of them working are astronomically not in your favor. A 10 gallon tank is too small for an adult Parrot so adding anything in the tank that takes up space is not helpful. The plastic plant can help him hide but in reality, it's like trying to hide a Gorilla behind a toothpick. So don't expect miracles.
Good luck with the move.

Ouch. That hurt.

 

[Andy Sager]

Ouch. That hurt.

Sorry but you have a pie in the sky assumption that you can take a bad situation and fix it all with another bad situation. 10 gallon tanks are not made for large Cichlids. You can use them as a temporary holding tank but they are not a permanent solution. ( I believe I went over that with you back a few pages. ) To give you a visual, you can go hide in a closet. You can even stay in the closet for a day or two but how well can you live permanently in the closet? That is the situation your Parrot is in. If you want to save your Silver Dollars, you need to remove the Parrotfish. If you want to keep the Parrot for the rest of it's life, you need to get him a tank at least as big as the tank you are taking him out of. If you can do that, great That will make everybody happier. If you can't do that, you have to decide just how much you want to save your Dollars and/or your Parrotfish. I'm only thinking about the health of the fish. I've dealt with many large fish so I have first hand experience of their needs and space is their #1 thing they need after a healthy tank to live in. That's just the facts. The sooner you come to the realization that that is the truth, the better off all your fish will be. The decision obviously is yours but you've already seen how bad this situation is so there is no sugar coating it.

 

[Libby1]

Sorry but you have a pie in the sky assumption that you can take a bad situation and fix it all with another bad situation. 10 gallon tanks are not made for large Cichlids. You can use them as a temporary holding tank but they are not a permanent solution. ( I believe I went over that with you back a few pages. ) To give you a visual, you can go hide in a closet. You can even stay in the closet for a day or two but how well can you live permanently in the closet? That is the situation your Parrot is in. If you want to save your Silver Dollars, you need to remove the Parrotfish. If you want to keep the Parrot for the rest of it's life, you need to get him a tank at least as big as the tank you are taking him out of. If you can do that, great That will make everybody happier. If you can't do that, you have to decide just how much you want to save your Dollars and/or your Parrotfish. I'm only thinking about the health of the fish. I've dealt with many large fish so I have first hand experience of their needs and space is their #1 thing they need after a healthy tank to live in. That's just the facts. The sooner you come to the realization that that is the truth, the better off all your fish will be. The decision obviously is yours but you've already seen how bad this situation is so there is no sugar coating it.

First, based on this post and my previous one, I just want to express that I'm not a fool and when I say my silver dollars have intuition I'm not actually thinking they do. It's a way of coping under this really stressful situation, writing in humor that perhaps they sense that salvation is coming. I'm not an idiot, I know they don't actually sense things like that.

The fact is, I am truly devastated about all that's been going on and doing my best under the circumstances. This is a situation I didn't expect to have to deal with, and I'm very distressed about it for various reasons. Maybe I'm crazy but I've cried tears. Because yes I do care. I'm just really kind of stuck and need to make some decisions.

I will update you here but I really hope that when you respond you can consider the fact that I am not just randomly doing whatever I please, I'm trying my hardest and the circumstances are not in my favor so it's really tough. I need to gain some clarity on what to do going forward. And any option just makes me so sad and worried.

On Friday I transferred my blood parrot to my 10-gal tank. I literally cried doing it. And I cried afterwards. Because he is a strong and healthy fish and really feisty with a lot of personality, and the last thing I want to do is jeopardize his health. But first, he needed to get out of that tank if I wanted to save my silver dollars. He put up a fight. It broke my heart!!! I'm in tears as I'm writing this. I shouldn't have pets.

On Saturday evening the ammonia in the 10-gal was at 0.25ppm so I did a 25% water change. Did not feed the parrot.

Today during the day, the ammonia was above 0.25ppm so I did a 30% water change. I did not feed him.

I am afraid to test it tomorrow. I will, of course. But can you tell me what to expect, and is this normal and is it possible the tank is cycling well even though the ammonia is there?

He is acting normal. I yearn to hold onto him. But at the same time I want to rehome him in a healthy, big tank. I haven't even found anyone yet that would take him. But I'm also very devastated to give him away - I would have much rather just had him remain in the old tank. He's really pretty and entertaining. It's heartbreaking. I don't know if I should have rather transferred my silver dollars and left him there. But I was afraid to stress them out more.

I don't know if the solution would be to set up a 20-gal tank. I don't know if this filter I'm using is the answer for the 10-gal (the one I sent you the link). I'm using the filter with one compartment since the one with 2 hasn't arrived due to weather delays in shipping. But it has the bio-media of the old tank's filter. And it's supposed to be good for up to 30gal tank.

I don't know if there is anything else I should be doing to make sure my blood parrot stays healthy.

I need to check my PH - stupidly I haven't checked it in a while. Also, this means I might have to add some crushed coral in the 10-gal tank.

Gosh, what do I do now. How do I do best for my parrot but not lose him. I'm devastated.

My silver dollars, at first, were so happy in the tank without him. Bumpy Fish even came up to the surface to eat, although I don't think she actually ate. Today, though, they were scared of the light and they huddled in the corner like the times when they were bullied. Is it possible they're still used to being scared and it takes a few days for them to realize they can relax? I don't know. I'm not sure Bumpy Fish ate today at all, I haven't really seen her eat in a while. She swims around fine but rests also.

I'm nauseous from all of this. I hope I didn't remove my blood parrot for nothing. He definitely bullied them into this situation, but I hope they get better and gain back their weight and happiness. I guess time will tell? What do I do about my parrot in the meantime

My LFS said he knows someone who has a huge tank filled with parrot fish. He would ask if the person would take my fish. What if he does, at least till I figure out what to do.. do you feel it's better that my parrot be rehomed even if temporarily, rather than doing this new tank thing...? I just don't know how soon that would even happen, and I don't know yet if the person will agree either way. I'm just so confused. I guess I will know more once my LFS asks him, but I'm wondering if that's a smarter route to consider.

Please, when you respond can you be gentle. I'm no idiot, I know the situation is not good. I'm devastated as it is. I've cried, I've lost my appetite. I care about my fish tremendously. But I also have a lot going on in my life which just makes this that much more stressful and is the reason I can't just randomly start a brand-new huge tank. I wish I could. I'm trying my best. I really am.

 

[Andy Sager]

First, based on this post and my previous one, I just want to express that I'm not a fool and when I say my silver dollars have intuition I'm not actually thinking they do. It's a way of coping under this really stressful situation, writing in humor that perhaps they sense that salvation is coming. I'm not an idiot, I know they don't actually sense things like that.

I don't think your a fool as much as you were a victim of improper preparation. Whoever sold you the parrot and silver dollars for that tank was not kind to you at all because what you are experiencing was totally expected if they had any knowledge of the fish they were selling. That said, I can only respond to what you write because I don't know you personally. If you've spoken to as many people as I have working in retail pet shops, you'd understand that there are MANY people who are delusional in their expectations for fish so there's no way of knowing if you fit this category or not. I just have to "call 'em like I read 'em." Glad to know that you know the fish can't see the future.

The fact is, I am truly devastated about all that's been going on and doing my best under the circumstances. This is a situation I didn't expect to have to deal with, and I'm very distressed about it for various reasons. Maybe I'm crazy but I've cried tears. Because yes I do care. I'm just really kind of stuck and need to make some decisions.

Pet people are different from those " regular" people. We all get really attached to our pets so being distressed about a bad situation is normal. That said tho, being so distressed that you can't move forward is not helping resolve the problem. Believe it or not, every action you take is a life or death decision. Not your life but your pet's life. So every moment you don't move forward can have devastating results.

I will update you here but I really hope that when you respond you can consider the fact that I am not just randomly doing whatever I please, I'm trying my hardest and the circumstances are not in my favor so it's really tough. I need to gain some clarity on what to do going forward.

We told you at the beginning of this thread, you have old fish. They are close to their expected lifespans so there is no way of telling how much longer they are going to be with you. They've been through a lot with the poisoning, the bullying and the lack space so all that can contribute to their longevity or lack of it. Everything we've told you is in regards to the best options for the fish to live out to their expected lifespan.

And any option just makes me so sad and worried.

This goes back to the person who sold you these fish for a 36 gallon tank. Now you are facing the consequences of their action.

On Friday I transferred my blood parrot to my 10-gal tank. I literally cried doing it. And I cried afterwards. Because he is a strong and healthy fish and really feisty with a lot of personality, and the last thing I want to do is jeopardize his health. But first, he needed to get out of that tank if I wanted to save my silver dollars. He put up a fight. It broke my heart!!! I'm in tears as I'm writing this.

That was the problem, in order to save the one, you needed to remove the other. You had a bad mix of fish for that tank.

I shouldn't have pets.

I'll be honest here, not everybody is a good candidate for being a pet owner. (Just because you can get one doesn't mean that you should get one.) In my work in retail pet stores, I have turned people away because their expectations or abilities to care for the pet they wanted didn't match. My theory has always been " The pet comes first." Truthfully, this "philosophy" has left many shops in the past couple of decades. Had I been your salesman when you started this tank, I can guarantee you that you wouldn't have these fish so you wouldn't have this situation but would have fish that were a better choice for your tank size and longevity expectations.

On Saturday evening the ammonia in the 10-gal was at 0.25ppm so I did a 25% water change. Did not feed the parrot.

Today during the day, the ammonia was above 0.25ppm so I did a 30% water change. I did not feed him.

I am afraid to test it tomorrow. I will, of course. But can you tell me what to expect, and is this normal and is it possible the tank is cycling well even though the ammonia is there?

It's going to take some time, not too long I expect, for the biological filter to establish in that 10 gal. You are going to need to be doing water changes until it catches up on the bioload. You don't want the ammonia to be zero or you will starve out the microbes. Do a nitrite check as well just to make sure that isn't rising too.

He is acting normal. I yearn to hold onto him. But at the same time I want to rehome him in a healthy, big tank. I haven't even found anyone yet that would take him. But I'm also very devastated to give him away - I would have much rather just had him remain in the old tank. He's really pretty and entertaining. It's heartbreaking. I don't know if I should have rather transferred my silver dollars and left him there. But I was afraid to stress them out more.

Putting the Dollars into the 10 gal would have been an immediate death sentence most likely.

I don't know if the solution would be to set up a 20-gal tank. I don't know if this filter I'm using is the answer for the 10-gal (the one I sent you the link). I'm using the filter with one compartment since the one with 2 hasn't arrived due to weather delays in shipping. But it has the bio-media of the old tank's filter. And it's supposed to be good for up to 30gal tank.

The 20 gal would only be a short term solution to delay water changes by a day I suspect since you are getting ammonia readings without feeding the fish. That means it's coming from the fish's respiration. Suggested parrotfish tank size is 30 gallons minimum for when they are small fish. A tank upgrade will be necessary as an adult.

I don't know if there is anything else I should be doing to make sure my blood parrot stays healthy.

Get him a 4' long or larger tank. That will keep him healthy. Not feeding him is not helping.

I need to check my PH - stupidly I haven't checked it in a while. Also, this means I might have to add some crushed coral in the 10-gal tank.

Do not add the coral until you have a pH test result posted here and I see what it is.

Gosh, what do I do now. How do I do best for my parrot but not lose him. I'm devastated.

My silver dollars, at first, were so happy in the tank without him. Bumpy Fish even came up to the surface to eat, although I don't think she actually ate. Today, though, they were scared of the light and they huddled in the corner like the times when they were bullied. Is it possible they're still used to being scared and it takes a few days for them to realize they can relax? I don't know. I'm not sure Bumpy Fish ate today at all, I haven't really seen her eat in a while. She swims around fine but rests also.

I'm nauseous from all of this. I hope I didn't remove my blood parrot for nothing. He definitely bullied them into this situation, but I hope they get better and gain back their weight and happiness. I guess time will tell? What do I do about my parrot in the meantime

My LFS said he knows someone who has a huge tank filled with parrot fish. He would ask if the person would take my fish. What if he does, at least till I figure out what to do.. do you feel it's better that my parrot be rehomed even if temporarily, rather than doing this new tank thing...? I just don't know how soon that would even happen, and I don't know yet if the person will agree either way.

I'm just so confused. I guess I will know more once my LFS asks him, but I'm wondering if that's a smarter route to consider.

Yes it is unless you can give him a big tank.

Please, when you respond can you be gentle. I'm no idiot, I know the situation is not good. I'm devastated as it is. I've cried, I've lost my appetite. I care about my fish tremendously. But I also have a lot going on in my life which just makes this that much more stressful and is the reason I can't just randomly start a brand-new huge tank. I wish I could. I'm trying my best. I really am.

I've been as gentle as I can be under the circumstances. You have a bad situation. Your disposition does not help that and the situation doesn't help your disposition. That means you have to make a choice and be able to live with the consequences. If you can't do that, my opinion is to get out of the situation. ( But I'm no Dr. )
You are not the first person to have this situation. Not far from me is a Primate Facility filled with Chimps ( Including Michael Jackson's Bubbles) and Orangutans that were bought as pets when they were babies only the owners couldn't handle them as adults. The local shelters everywhere are filled with dogs and cats and other animals that were purchased by people who didn't do their homework before getting them. One of the members here ( in Ohio?) takes fish from his local area that have outgrown their tanks and the owners couldn't get bigger tanks. So you see, you are not alone with this situation.
It's boiled down to this: Sadly, just because you are doing your best does not mean it's the best for your fish. For now, the best you can do is test daily, do water changes if necessary and find a better home for the Parrot than you can provide. Isn't that the best for the fish?

 

[Libby1]

I don't think your a fool as much as you were a victim of improper preparation. Whoever sold you the parrot and silver dollars for that tank was not kind to you at all because what you are experiencing was totally expected if they had any knowledge of the fish they were selling. That said, I can only respond to what you write because I don't know you personally. If you've spoken to as many people as I have working in retail pet shops, you'd understand that there are MANY people who are delusional in their expectations for fish so there's no way of knowing if you fit this category or not. I just have to "call 'em like I read 'em." Glad to know that you know the fish can't see the future.

First, thank you for "getting" what I'm saying and for explaining your reason for the way you had responded to me. No, I'm definitely not one of those who just randomly buys pets and doesn't care what needs to be done with them for their benefit, health and happiness. I care extremely much about any living thing; I don't even kill a fly or garden bug! I remove them from my home and place them outside.

You are correct in that the person who sold me these fish was really very wrong to do it, because I remember asking him a million questions just to be sure I'm doing the right thing buying these! For instance, knowing that the parrots are territorial I straight up asked him how it's possible that silver dollars, who are primarily peaceful fish, are paired with parrots. His answer was that the silver dollars are very fast fish so they'll never be bothered by the parrots who are much slower. Turns out, now my parrot is extremely fast and managed to bully my dollars so terribly.

Yes, it's very upsetting. I did ask the right questions but I had no idea of any such possibilty since I hadn't known of these forums back then and couldn't even consult a true fish lover who would tell me the truth.

Pet people are different from those " regular" people. We all get really attached to our pets so being distressed about a bad situation is normal. That said tho, being so distressed that you can't move forward is not helping resolve the problem. Believe it or not, every action you take is a life or death decision. Not your life but your pet's life. So every moment you don't move forward can have devastating results.

You're right. I'm trying.. Even while I'm nauseous. Sigh. Sometimes I need that boost.

This goes back to the person who sold you these fish for a 36 gallon tank. Now you are facing the consequences of their action. That was the problem, in order to save the one, you needed to remove the other. You had a bad mix of fish for that tank.

This makes me so mad at the guy who sold me the fish!!

I'll be honest here, not everybody is a good candidate for being a pet owner. (Just because you can get one doesn't mean that you should get one.) In my work in retail pet stores, I have turned people away because their expectations or abilities to care for the pet they wanted didn't match. My theory has always been " The pet comes first." Truthfully, this "philosophy" has left many shops in the past couple of decades. Had I been your salesman when you started this tank, I can guarantee you that you wouldn't have these fish so you wouldn't have this situation but would have fish that were a better choice for your tank size and longevity expectations.

I wish you had been my salesman. As you can see, I care extremely much. I just don't have all the knowledge in the world and find myself in this situation now, unfortunately. I commend the fact that you operated that way in your work in retail stores. If only they'd all be like this. So many pets are just sold for the sake of selling them and who knows what they go through with their "owners".

It's going to take some time, not too long I expect, for the biological filter to establish in that 10 gal. You are going to need to be doing water changes until it catches up on the bioload. You don't want the ammonia to be zero or you will starve out the microbes. Do a nitrite check as well just to make sure that isn't rising too.

Okay so I do have a quick update on that; I just checked the ammonia about 15 minutes ago, and now it's less than 0.25 , probably in the middle of 0 - 0.25 so my question is, since you said not to bring it to zero, do you suggest I do a 25% water change today, or rather not?

I need to check my nitrites, I'll do so shortly and will update you. I guess I'll also check my nitrates while at it (or is that not relevant at the moment since we're monitoring the ammonia? See, I don't know these details too clearly)

Putting the Dollars into the 10 gal would have been an immediate death sentence most likely.

Okay it's good to know this.

The 20 gal would only be a short term solution to delay water changes by a day I suspect since you are getting ammonia readings without feeding the fish. That means it's coming from the fish's respiration. Suggested parrotfish tank size is 30 gallons minimum for when they are small fish. A tank upgrade will be necessary as an adult.

Get him a 4' long or larger tank. That will keep him healthy. Not feeding him is not helping.

Sigh. I'm wondering if the higher ammonia level without eating might have been due to his being stressed and put into a new environment? Is that possible, does it make sense? That perhaps now that he's been establishing his territory, etc his respiration is more relaxed? And the fact that the ammonia is lower today, could I assume the system is starting to regulate, or could a spike still be expected?

Also, when do you suggest I start feeding him...? I don't want to "not" feed him but I'd go by what you suggest considering the ammonia and small tank size, etc so I do it carefully.

Regarding the 4' long or larger tank.. that's the problem. I don't see how I can do it, or where I can set it up. I will try to figure these things out in the next bit of time.. but this is breaking my heart. Because the only other option will be to give him up.

Do not add the coral until you have a pH test result posted here and I see what it is.

Okay I'm gonna test that also shortly and will post here.

I've been as gentle as I can be under the circumstances. You have a bad situation. You are not the first person to have this situation. Not far from me is a Primate Facility filled with Chimps ( Including Michael Jackson's Bubbles) and Orangutans that were bought as pets when they were babies only the owners couldn't handle them as adults. The local shelters everywhere are filled with dogs and cats and other animals that were purchased by people who didn't do their homework before getting them. One of the members here ( in Ohio?) takes fish from his local area that have outgrown their tanks and the owners couldn't get bigger tanks. So you see, you are not alone with this situation.

It always makes me so deeply sad knowing how many dog shelters there are, etc. and abused, abandoned animals. Wow I wish that member who takes takes large fish in Ohio would live nearby! I live in NY. Then I'd feel like I'm rehoming him well, and perhaps one day if I do somehow manage to (miraculously) set up a huge tank for him, maybe I'd be able to take him back. Sigh. Oh, well. I guess NY'ers don't have that way of thinking; people are so quick to dispose of things and just don't care.

It's boiled down to this: Sadly, just because you are doing your best does not mean it's the best for your fish. For now, the best you can do is test daily, do water changes if necessary and find a better home for the Parrot than you can provide. Isn't that the best for the fish?

I'm gonna find out about the possibility of that person taking him; the one who has the parrots tank. I don't know if he'd allow me to take my fish back if I manage to set up a tank somehow at some point, but I hope he does.

In the meantime, do I have to worry literally every day about my parrot? Or as long as the water quality is good, can I breathe easy till I figure things out? It won't be just a few days...

Also, at which point can I stop checking parameters daily, and how often would I need to check what?

Thanks

 

[Libby1]

Okay, update on parameters:

Nitrite is zero (thank G-d!)

Nitrate is at around 10... or very possibly 15 (the colors are super close. It might even be at 20. But definitely not more than that) is that odd..?? I've never had it so low. Is it because he hasn't eaten? Is it a not good indication, or it's fine?

Ammonia (based on the earlier test) was between 0 - 0.25 (possibly closer to zero but somewhere in the middle)

PH interestingly is at 7 or 7.2 ! Which technically is perfect.

What I'm confused about regarding the PH is that my "main" (old) tank's PH is now 6.8 but a while back it was very low for a long time (like literally 6 or lower) so I had added crushed coral but still it only lifted a little bit and was around 6.4 but now it's 6.8 so I guess I don't have to do anything about the PH. Right?

Regarding my parrot, he seems perfectly fine in terms of "mood". I'm relieved to see he's not sulking, at least not for the most part when I'm there. He comes to the glass and when I put my finger there he follows and I give him some "attention" so he doesn't feel "abandoned" (again, I'm talking in fish terms....)

Regarding the above readings, and considering I haven't fed him yet (when should I feed him?) what is your assessment on where the bioload establishment is at?


P.s. Update on Bumpy Fish:
Just now, for the first time in a long, long time, she came running to eat the blood worms I fed them!! I'm so happy about this Omg. Even this morning she was still timid and came to eat a drop but stopped. So I stopped feeding, and just now I gave them the rest, and she (with the other 2) came running, gobbling up the entire thing! So I'm relieved to see first that she's capable and interested in eating. Then I dropped in some spirulina flakes (figured I wanna grab the opportunity while they're all in "feed" mode) and she immediately grabbed some but spit it out, I guess indeed she doesn't like it. Interesting! Because my other 2 silver dollars do like it. So now I gotta figure out what she will or won't eat, because from what I understand I shouldn't be feeding blood worms more often than once or twice a week (do you agree?). Thing is, I haven't seen her chew from the veggies lately, but perhaps that's also gonna come back slowly? Maybe it indeed just takes time for them to realize they are not being bullied anymore.. I hope that's the case. Figured I'd update you, and maybe you have ideas of what I could try feeding her.. her taste totally changed because she used to love the Hikari pellets but doesn't come up for them anymore. I guess time will tell.

 

[Andy Sager]

Okay, update on parameters:

Nitrite is zero (thank G-d!)

Nitrate is at around 10... or very possibly 15 (the colors are super close. It might even be at 20. But definitely not more than that) is that odd..?? I've never had it so low. Is it because he hasn't eaten? Is it a not good indication, or it's fine?

Did you use tank water for the 10 or new clean water?

Ammonia (based on the earlier test) was between 0 - 0.25 (possibly closer to zero but somewhere in the middle)

PH interestingly is at 7 or 7.2 ! Which technically is perfect.

Perfect for what? For nitrification, " perfect" is closer to 8.0 than 7.0.

What I'm confused about regarding the PH is that my "main" (old) tank's PH is now 6.8 but a while back it was very low for a long time (like literally 6 or lower) so I had added crushed coral but still it only lifted a little bit and was around 6.4 but now it's 6.8 so I guess I don't have to do anything about the PH. Right?

As nitrate rises, pH falls. Nitrate is an acid which is why it happens that way. The amount of coral you added just wasn't enough to raise the pH higher. That's all that means. The coral is literally dissolving in higher nitrate water to help bring the pH back up. Since at 6.8 any ammonia will be ammonium, any slight ammonia reading in that tank would not be something to be concerned about. That is not what you want to happen in the 10 gal however.

Regarding my parrot, he seems perfectly fine in terms of "mood". I'm relieved to see he's not sulking, at least not for the most part when I'm there. He comes to the glass and when I put my finger there he follows and I give him some "attention" so he doesn't feel "abandoned" (again, I'm talking in fish terms....)

Regarding the above readings, and considering I haven't fed him yet (when should I feed him?) what is your assessment on where the bioload establishment is at?

Realistically, if there are nitrates, zero nitrites and zero ammonia, the complete cycling has occurred. Since you are showing ammonia but not showing nitrites and you are showing nitrates, you have to eliminate them as coming from the initial water you put into the tank. Feed the fish.

P.s. Update on Bumpy Fish:
Just now, for the first time in a long, long time, she came running to eat the blood worms I fed them!! I'm so happy about this Omg. Even this morning she was still timid and came to eat a drop but stopped. So I stopped feeding, and just now I gave them the rest, and she (with the other 2) came running, gobbling up the entire thing! So I'm relieved to see first that she's capable and interested in eating. Then I dropped in some spirulina flakes (figured I wanna grab the opportunity while they're all in "feed" mode) and she immediately grabbed some but spit it out, I guess indeed she doesn't like it. Interesting! Because my other 2 silver dollars do like it. So now I gotta figure out what she will or won't eat, because from what I understand I shouldn't be feeding blood worms more often than once or twice a week (do you agree?). Thing is, I haven't seen her chew from the veggies lately, but perhaps that's also gonna come back slowly? Maybe it indeed just takes time for them to realize they are not being bullied anymore.. I hope that's the case. Figured I'd update you, and maybe you have ideas of what I could try feeding her.. her taste totally changed because she used to love the Hikari pellets but doesn't come up for them anymore. I guess time will tell.

Being that they are old fish, feed them whatever thy are willing to eat. Just try not to lock into only 1 or 2 foods. The bigger the variety, the healthier the diet will be. As for changing diet, I had a great, great uncle who was a big meat eater. Loved his steak!!! The last time I saw him, he only had 2 teeth left in his mouth. He wasn't eating steak anymore because of that. Get the picture? It's not unusual for fish to change diets as they mature. Their nutritional needs change.

 

[Libby1]

Did you use tank water for the 10 or new clean water?

The only time I used tank water for the 10 gallon was when I set it up initially, and the day I transferred my parrot (on Friday). I used fresh water for Saturday evening's water change, and yesterday's (Sunday). I did not do a water change today. Should I still do one tonight? To bring the ammonia down? Or wait till tomorrow?

Perfect for what? For nitrification, " perfect" is closer to 8.0 than 7.0.

Perfect for this species of fish, I think. If I remember correctly, their ideal PH is around 7.

As nitrate rises, pH falls. Nitrate is an acid which is why it happens that way.

Ohhh.... that might explain the extremely low PH and very high nitrates I had at some point....

The amount of coral you added just wasn't enough to raise the pH higher. That's all that means. The coral is literally dissolving in higher nitrate water to help bring the pH back up. Since at 6.8 any ammonia will be ammonium, any slight ammonia reading in that tank would not be something to be concerned about. That is not what you want to happen in the 10 gal however.

Your last line regarding the 10 gal.. do you mind elaborating, which part do I not want to happen.. the ammonia level? Also, are you saying this for now, or once the tank is fully cycled? Because you had said for now not to bring the ammonia down to zero, just to let it naturally get there. So I'm just double checking if I'm understanding you correctly.

Realistically, if there are nitrates, zero nitrites and zero ammonia, the complete cycling has occurred. Since you are showing ammonia but not showing nitrites and you are showing nitrates, you have to eliminate them as coming from the initial water you put into the tank. Feed the fish.

I fed the fish now per your suggestion. Boy was he happy. I fed just a neat amount.. first wanted to check with you how much to feed. Do I have to feed little, or regular should be fine?

Also, by saying I have to eliminate them as coming from the initial water I put in the tank, are you saying to do a water change now in order to eliminate? Or not? I'm not clear...

Being that they are old fish, feed them whatever thy are willing to eat. Just try not to lock into only 1 or 2 foods. The bigger the variety, the healthier the diet will be. As for changing diet, I had a great, great uncle who was a big meat eater. Loved his steak!!! The last time I saw him, he only had 2 teeth left in his mouth. He wasn't eating steak anymore because of that. Get the picture? It's not unusual for fish to change diets as they mature. Their nutritional needs change.

Got it. I'm just running out of ideas, but let's see, hopefully she starts munching the veggies again.

P.s. did you see my post before this "update" one that you answered? Just checking since I might have had a question or two in that one.

 

[Andy Sager]

The only time I used tank water for the 10 gallon was when I set it up initially, and the day I transferred my parrot (on Friday). I used fresh water for Saturday evening's water change, and yesterday's (Sunday). I did not do a water change today. Should I still do one tonight? To bring the ammonia down? Or wait till tomorrow?

So the nitrates could be ( and probably are) from the other tank water and your tank is not fully cycled. At a pH of 7 or 7.2, there is some nitrification but it's not going to be quick. So if your ammonia is under .25 ppm, I'd let the water change go for tonight but check it earlier in the day tomorrow as you may need to do a water change then from the pooping after feeding.

Perfect for this species of fish, I think. If I remember correctly, their ideal PH is around 7.


Ohhh.... that might explain the extremely low PH and very high nitrates I had at some point....

Yup. Cause and effect.

Your last line regarding the 10 gal.. do you mind elaborating, which part do I not want to happen.. the ammonia level? Also, are you saying this for now, or once the tank is fully cycled? Because you had said for now not to bring the ammonia down to zero, just to let it naturally get there. So I'm just double checking if I'm understanding you correctly.

You do not want the pH that low when you are trying to establish the biological filter. You want it in the upper 7s for speed or if it is under that, expect everything to go more slowly. What is your tap water's pH? ( Take a sample and leave it overnight then add test reagents.)

I fed the fish now per your suggestion. Boy was he happy. I fed just a neat amount.. first wanted to check with you how much to feed. Do I have to feed little, or regular should be fine?

Feed carefully as the more that goes in, the more that comes out and that does not work in your favor right now but you shouldn't starve the fish.

Also, by saying I have to eliminate them as coming from the initial water I put in the tank, are you saying to do a water change now in order to eliminate? Or not? I'm not clear...

I explained above. Sounds like the nitrates came from the water from the other tank and NOT from the 10 gal.

Got it. I'm just running out of ideas, but let's see, hopefully she starts munching the veggies again.

P.s. did you see my post before this "update" one that you answered? Just checking since I might have had a question or two in that one.

No I didn't. What post number is it?

 

[Libby1]

So the nitrates could be ( and probably are) from the other tank water and your tank is not fully cycled. At a pH of 7 or 7.2, there is some nitrification but it's not going to be quick. So if your ammonia is under .25 ppm, I'd let the water change go for tonight but check it earlier in the day tomorrow as you may need to do a water change then from the pooping after feeding.

Damn, I was finally starting to feel more relaxed thinking my tank cycling is finally getting there because I didn't realize the nitrates are probably from the other tank.

You do not want the pH that low when you are trying to establish the biological filter. You want it in the upper 7s for speed or if it is under that, expect everything to go more slowly. What is your tap water's pH? ( Take a sample and leave it overnight then add test reagents.)

Should I add some crushed coral to the floor of the tank, in a mesh bag...?
Also, I will take the tap water sample and will update you tomorrow when I test it.

Feed carefully as the more that goes in, the more that comes out and that does not work in your favor right now but you shouldn't starve the fish.

I fed him an average portion; not too much, but also not very little. Probably around 10 pellets give-or-take but that might just be a guess. I shoulda' counted. I'll check the ammonia levels earlier in the day tomorrow.

I explained above. Sounds like the nitrates came from the water from the other tank and NOT from the 10 gal.

This being the case, should I also be checking nitrites daily? Or is checking for ammonia enough and do a water change when it's at 0.25 (or above, hopefully not)? Also I really would want to speed up the process.. I guess I'll wait to hear what you say about the PH.

No I didn't. What post number is it?

Oh, I didn't realize there are post numbers! So smart! It's post #112
Some of the info or questions might not be relevant at this point, but I guess would be good if you could read it just in case. Thanks!

Oh another thing, I've been adding a half capful of Stability daily, per their instructions for setting up a new tank... I did that with my main tank also.. what are your thoughts on that?

 

[Andy Sager]

Damn, I was finally starting to feel more relaxed thinking my tank cycling is finally getting there because I didn't realize the nitrates are probably from the other tank.

Should I add some crushed coral to the floor of the tank, in a mesh bag...?
Also, I will take the tap water sample and will update you tomorrow when I test it.


I fed him an average portion; not too much, but also not very little. Probably around 10 pellets give-or-take but that might just be a guess. I shoulda' counted. I'll check the ammonia levels earlier in the day tomorrow.

This being the case, should I also be checking nitrites daily? Or is checking for ammonia enough and do a water change when it's at 0.25 (or above, hopefully not)? Also I really would want to speed up the process.. I guess I'll wait to hear what you say about the PH.

Oh, I didn't realize there are post numbers! So smart! It's post #112
Some of the info or questions might not be relevant at this point, but I guess would be good if you could read it just in case. Thanks!

Oh another thing, I've been adding a half capful of Stability daily, per their instructions for setting up a new tank... I did that with my main tank also.. what are your thoughts on that?

With a low pH, it's not going to matter. You need them to be reproducing. If you have more, there's no real harm in using it but I wouldn't buy more.

I'll look at post #112 now.

I think I've answered all the questions here except how long will you have to be hyper vigilant: The answer is daily until you find him a better home. I'll also add that I suspect that you aren't going to have a second tank larger than what you have for the parrot for quite some time so you have to be realistic about getting him back in the future. I could see someone taking a fish like that for a week or a few weeks while you set up a new tank but do you really expect someone else to care for your fish for months or longer without appropriate compensation for doing so and then returning him to you? AT that point, IMO, you'd be better off getting a large tank and raising another one appropriately if you really want another one knowing what you know now about how they can become unpredictable towards tankmates. There are so many other species to choose from that a large tank would work just fine for. Just sayin'.
Did I miss anything?

 

[Libby1]

With a low pH, it's not going to matter. You need them to be reproducing. If you have more, there's no real harm in using it but I wouldn't buy more.

I'll look at post #112 now.

I think I've answered all the questions here except how long will you have to be hyper vigilant: The answer is daily until you find him a better home. I'll also add that I suspect that you aren't going to have a second tank larger than what you have for the parrot for quite some time so you have to be realistic about getting him back in the future. I could see someone taking a fish like that for a week or a few weeks while you set up a new tank but do you really expect someone else to care for your fish for months or longer without appropriate compensation for doing so and then returning him to you? AT that point, IMO, you'd be better off getting a large tank and raising another one appropriately if you really want another one knowing what you know now about how they can become unpredictable towards tankmates. There are so many other species to choose from that a large tank would work just fine for. Just sayin'.
Did I miss anything?

Hyper vigilant every, single day...?? Omg. That means I can't even properly leave home for a weekend?? Holy smokes how am I gonna do that there's no way I can be tied down like that, I already have things scheduled that will pull me away for at least 2-3 days at a time! Omg. No solution to this for the moment??

As for my parameters this morning (approx 15 mins ago) my ammonia is at 0.25 and nitrates at approx 20. I'll do a 25% water change soon. Should I be doing 30%?

 

[Andy Sager]

Hyper vigilant every, single day...?? Omg. That means I can't even properly leave home for a weekend?? Holy smokes how am I gonna do that there's no way I can be tied down like that, I already have things scheduled that will pull me away for at least 2-3 days at a time! Omg. No solution to this for the moment??

No. This is the end result of having a big fish in a small tank. It's not only about space. It's about water quality and it's very hard to keep water quality up in a small tank with a big fish no matter how large the filter media is. Right now, you have a water parameter that is making nitrification be slower so the toxic ammonia is present longer which is not good for the fish. If you need to go away for 2 or 3 days, I'd really push to get answers on whether the person can take your fish before you go away. Yes, it sucks but you may not like the results if you don't.

As for my parameters this morning (approx 15 mins ago) my ammonia is at 0.25 and nitrates at approx 20. I'll do a 25% water change soon. Should I be doing 30%?

Either is fine.