Partner's betta not doing well - Euthanasia?

[holedaemon]

Hi folks,

Hope you're well. I'm new to the forums hoping I can get some guidance or advice regarding my partner's betta fish, Nishiki. He hasn't been doing well for the last two months or so & it's really been weighing on them. They've been doing everything they can to help him out, but nothing seems to be working. They posted on r/aquariums over on Reddit last night asking for advice on whether or not he should be euthanized, but no one has responded. If you have any insight, it would be most appreciated. I also want to preface this by saying, I am not an aquarium hobbyist, I am here simply out of concern for my partner & their pet. All of my (limited) knowledge regarding the care, maintenance, etc of a fish tank / fish comes from them. So, if I'm wrong, misinformed, etc about anything, please let me know, I apologize in advance. Furthermore, if I'm breaking any forum rules in this post, let me know so I may correct them. Thank you to anyone that may read this. Anyway...

Sometime in August, the filter in my partner's tank broke out of nowhere & as a result, it experienced an ammonia spike. Nishiki got sick but seemed to recover after some water changes, however he was less active. Unfortunately, in late September, he sunk to the bottom of the tank & started to gasp. My partner has had him in an isolation tank since, it's shallow enough that Nishiki has been able to reach the surface, and they've been cleaning the tank consistently. Up until a few days ago, he was eating & would rise to greet my partner, but recently his eyes have developed cataracts. He's stopped reacting to food & hasn't eaten in a day or two, so I'm guessing he's gone blind. The working theory now is that he suffered internal damage when the ammonia spiked & has just been slowly getting worse with time.

My partner has done everything they can to try and remedy the problem. They've tried many different medicines; I know one was melafix, but I'm not sure of the others off the top of my head; I can ask if needed. They've also done many 10-25% water changes. More recently, they transplanted everything to a new tank (same size, just horizontal instead of vertical). They did not carry over any decorations without extensive cleaning (the goal was to get rid of a pest snail problem). They did, however, ensure that they kept most of the water during the transplant (I believe 50%?), to keep the bacteria, etc, etc. For reference, Nishiki shares his tank with a bristlenose pleco, and eats Newlife Spectrum Betta Formula. If there is any other information you need, please let me know.

Basically, they're running out of ideas. Is euthanasia the only route to take in this case, or is there perhaps something that can be done to help Nishiki? If you have any advice on what to do, it would be appreciated. Thank you very much.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hi folks,

Hope you're well. I'm new to the forums hoping I can get some guidance or advice regarding my partner's betta fish, Nishiki. He hasn't been doing well for the last two months or so & it's really been weighing on them. They've been doing everything they can to help him out, but nothing seems to be working. They posted on r/aquariums over on Reddit last night asking for advice on whether or not he should be euthanized, but no one has responded. If you have any insight, it would be most appreciated. I also want to preface this by saying, I am not an aquarium hobbyist, I am here simply out of concern for my partner & their pet. All of my (limited) knowledge regarding the care, maintenance, etc of a fish tank / fish comes from them. So, if I'm wrong, misinformed, etc about anything, please let me know, I apologize in advance. Furthermore, if I'm breaking any forum rules in this post, let me know so I may correct them. Thank you to anyone that may read this. Anyway...

Sometime in August, the filter in my partner's tank broke out of nowhere & as a result, it experienced an ammonia spike. Nishiki got sick but seemed to recover after some water changes, however he was less active. Unfortunately, in late September, he sunk to the bottom of the tank & started to gasp. My partner has had him in an isolation tank since, it's shallow enough that Nishiki has been able to reach the surface, and they've been cleaning the tank consistently. Up until a few days ago, he was eating & would rise to greet my partner, but recently his eyes have developed cataracts. He's stopped reacting to food & hasn't eaten in a day or two, so I'm guessing he's gone blind. The working theory now is that he suffered internal damage when the ammonia spiked & has just been slowly getting worse with time.

My partner has done everything they can to try and remedy the problem. They've tried many different medicines; I know one was melafix, but I'm not sure of the others off the top of my head; I can ask if needed. They've also done many 10-25% water changes. More recently, they transplanted everything to a new tank (same size, just horizontal instead of vertical). They did not carry over any decorations without extensive cleaning (the goal was to get rid of a pest snail problem). They did, however, ensure that they kept most of the water during the transplant (I believe 50%?), to keep the bacteria, etc, etc. For reference, Nishiki shares his tank with a bristlenose pleco, and eats Newlife Spectrum Betta Formula. If there is any other information you need, please let me know.

Basically, they're running out of ideas. Is euthanasia the only route to take in this case, or is there perhaps something that can be done to help Nishiki? If you have any advice on what to do, it would be appreciated. Thank you very much.

You came to the right place because we respond to inquires rather quickly.

A picture of the fish would be better to confirm some potential issues but from the sounds of it, the eye issue was probably caused by the ammonia spike which burned the covers of his eyes. This can be treated with antibiotics but we'd need to know what the water parameters are regarding pH and hardness in order to recommend the correct med for the water. Not all meds work under all situations. The big question is, since the fish responded after the ammonia spike and was eating but now isn't, has the new tank " cycled" or is there just an assumption that since they added just the water, the tank would be automatically cycled? If it's choice #2, your partner needs to do a full panel of tests ( pH, ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate) to confirm where in the cycle the tank is.
Just so you know, the bacteria that are needed to keep the water stable ( a.k.a. Cycled) are not in the water column but are on the surfaces where the highest volume of oxygen is. The filter media from the old tank would have been the right thing to move to the new tank if it was kept wet and in oxygenated water in under 48 hours of the filter breaking because usually, that is the place in the tank with the most amount of oxygen so the highest concentration of nitrifying bacteria.

So we need that information above to know what to do next.
Hope this helps.

 

[holedaemon]

You came to the right place because we respond to inquires rather quickly.

A picture of the fish would be better to confirm some potential issues but from the sounds of it, the eye issue was probably caused by the ammonia spike which burned the covers of his eyes. This can be treated with antibiotics but we'd need to know what the water parameters are regarding pH and hardness in order to recommend the correct med for the water. Not all meds work under all situations. The big question is, since the fish responded after the ammonia spike and was eating but now isn't, has the new tank " cycled" or is there just an assumption that since they added just the water, the tank would be automatically cycled? If it's choice #2, your partner needs to do a full panel of tests ( pH, ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate) to confirm where in the cycle the tank is.
Just so you know, the bacteria that are needed to keep the water stable ( a.k.a. Cycled) are not in the water column but are on the surfaces where the highest volume of oxygen is. The filter media from the old tank would have been the right thing to move to the new tank if it was kept wet and in oxygenated water in under 48 hours of the filter breaking because usually, that is the place in the tank with the most amount of oxygen so the highest concentration of nitrifying bacteria.

So we need that information above to know what to do next.
Hope this helps.

Hi there! Thank you so much for reply. It's very much appreciated.

I've spoken with my partner & gotten some clarification on things. I first want to confirm that the filter media was carried over to the new tank in full. On top of that, they said that the tank has not cycled yet, but they've been keeping an eye on things. They have a test kit & are going to do a full panel of tests tomorrow morning. I will post a reply with the results of that. Here are some pictures of Nishiki. If there is anything else I'm able to answer for you, please let me know. Again, your time & assistance is very much appreciated.

 

[Aiken Drum]

How long have you had the betta?

 

[Andy Sager]

Hi there! Thank you so much for reply. It's very much appreciated.

I've spoken with my partner & gotten some clarification on things. I first want to confirm that the filter media was carried over to the new tank in full. On top of that, they said that the tank has not cycled yet, but they've been keeping an eye on things. They have a test kit & are going to do a full panel of tests tomorrow morning. I will post a reply with the results of that. Here are some pictures of Nishiki. If there is anything else I'm able to answer for you, please let me know. Again, your time & assistance is very much appreciated.

Thanks for the pictures It looks like the fish has lost some scales on it's side and the anal fin ( the one on the bottom) is missing some parts which makes me wonder if the Pleco didn't have a little snack on the fish while it was sleeping. The eyes definitely look like they were burnt vs disease so it's going to come down to water quality to make a better decision.

 

[holedaemon]

How long have you had the betta?

They have had Nishiki since February of this year, but he is presumed to be around 2 years old.

Thanks for the pictures It looks like the fish has lost some scales on it's side and the anal fin ( the one on the bottom) is missing some parts which makes me wonder if the Pleco didn't have a little snack on the fish while it was sleeping. The eyes definitely look like they were burnt vs disease so it's going to come down to water quality to make a better decision.

No problem! It's definitely possible that Junior Shakedown (the Pleco) has been feeding on Nishiki a bit. As for the missing fin parts, Nishiki has had some issues with fin rot, assuming that could be the cause. Anyway, here are the results of the test panels

API Freshwater Master Test Kit
pH — consistently unreadable
Ammonia — 0ppm
Nitrite — 0ppm
Nitrate — 0ppm

API 5 in 1 Test Strips
GH — roughly 40mg/L
KH — 40mg/L
pH — between 6.5 / 7
Nitrite — 0ppm
Nitrate — 0ppm

Aqueon Ammonia Test Strips — 0ppm

Fritz 6 in 1 Test Strips
GH — 0ppm
KH — 0-20ppm
pH — 6.2 / 6.4

My partner also wanted me to relay, they know their water is soft. They read that it would help ease pain, and before it seemed like both fish were in pain, but now they are not.

If there is anything else you need, please let me know!

 

[Andy Sager]

Well the good news/bad news is that the eye issue is not from ammonia burns unless this happened when the pH of the water was above 7.0. When the pH is under 7.0, toxic ammonia is naturally converted to ammonium which is not toxic to fish unless in extremely high amounts. ( Many fish in S. America come from waters that are at pH levels below 6.0. ) So that means the eye injuries may have been caused by the pleco or a reaction to whatever caused the fin rot.

The tank is not cycled for sure but at lower pH levels, nitrification slows down tremendously and even stops below 5.5. So in your partner's case, the water is fine so the fish should not be behaving like this which means that he may be too far gone. Clean water helps many Bettas recover from a lot of things but when the fish stops eating, the chances of recovery go way down. There is one option and that is to treat the fish with Nitrofurazone or Minocycline but to be honest, the potential cure may end up costing much more than replacing the fish. Even if money is not the issue, the chances of success at this point is slim. In water with low pH, you maintain water quality with weekly water changes or twice weekly water changes if the tank is small. They can always just keep the water clean and keep him in that box to see if he responds to the clean water. It's a no lose option if they are going to euthanize anyway.

As for the API master kit, have them make sure the reagents haven't expired and they are not using the high pH test for their water. The pH is the easiest test to read because there is no clear color in the test results. It's either yellow, green or blue and in this case, yellow or green vs blue was all I needed to know. If they don't get one of those colors, the reagent is bad. I would trust the Fritz test strips over the API but to be honest, I trust liquid tests more than strips of any brand. If not stored correctly, the strips give off false results. The Fritz test strips are newer to the market so highly unlikely they are either bad or expired.

So moving forward, they need to be aware that not all fish will do well in soft water so they need to do some homework before getting any new fish species. Do not trust " the guy at the pet shop" as many shops these days do not always hire the most qualified people with expanded knowledge of fish. It's a sad reality to the lack of Mom & Pop shops.

If I can be of any further help, just post here or send me a message through the conversation button ( little envelope icon next to your name) as I check them both daily.

 

[wrex]

Hi all, I'm OP's partner. Betta boy's still kicking, I think I saw him nibble a bloodworm successfully last night. His condition is still extremely poor, though.

There is one option and that is to treat the fish with Nitrofurazone or Minocycline

As for the API master kit, have them make sure the reagents haven't expired and they are not using the high pH test for their water. The pH is the easiest test to read because there is no clear color in the test results. It's either yellow, green or blue and in this case, yellow or green vs blue was all I needed to know. If they don't get one of those colors, the reagent is bad.

Thank you so much for all of your detailed advice thus far. I'm extremely new to fishkeeping, I only started my first tank last November, but it's really filled my heart and my mind. I've learned so much and OP can verify that I was enjoying hearing the chemical reactions in my liquid tests yesterday

I have a bottle of Maracyn Oxy, the active ingredient of which is sodium chlorite? It seems like something different altogether. Money ISN'T an issue; I don't have much of it, but if I have to order an $80 bottle of juice that might save his life, I'd certainly try to. Do you have any last advice? It breaks my heart to see him suffer, but I'm not tough enough to put him down; it would destroy me, I think.

The pH liquid test was blue, but it was a light blue and the chart only had shades of bluish-teal for that range so I wasn't sure if I was reading it wrong. Thank you for telling me to check my kits, though! None of them are expired, but I didn't really realize they could, so now I know .

Here are photos from when he was much healthier, although you can already see clouding in his eyes.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hi all, I'm OP's partner. Betta boy's still kicking, I think I saw him nibble a bloodworm successfully last night. His condition is still extremely poor, though.


Thank you so much for all of your detailed advice thus far. I'm extremely new to fishkeeping, I only started my first tank last November, but it's really filled my heart and my mind. I've learned so much and OP can verify that I was enjoying hearing the chemical reactions in my liquid tests yesterday

I have a bottle of Maracyn Oxy, the active ingredient of which is sodium chlorite? It seems like something different altogether. Money ISN'T an issue; I don't have much of it, but if I have to order an $80 bottle of juice that might save his life, I'd certainly try to. Do you have any last advice? It breaks my heart to see him suffer, but I'm not tough enough to put him down; it would destroy me, I think.

The pH liquid test was blue, but it was a light blue and the chart only had shades of bluish-teal for that range so I wasn't sure if I was reading it wrong. Thank you for telling me to check my kits, though! None of them are expired, but I didn't really realize they could, so now I know .

Here are photos from when he was much healthier, although you can already see clouding in his eyes.View attachment 390816

View attachment 390815

Hi and Welcome to the site.
We always try to offer information that makes the most amount of sense for the new and experienced hobbyists so you will get advice that comes from years of experience in the hobby and in my case, 45+ years in the pet business directly. ( I've also been keeping fish as a hobby for close to 60 years. )

The light blue color in the pH test does not actually correlate to the Fritz strip result. At 6.2-6.4, the API test result should be yellow not blue. Light blue means it's somewhere in the low 7s. Green would be 7.0. The more blue and less green present means higher than 7.0. ( so now I question the fritz strip results. ) While the actual number may be a ticky tack thing, when it comes to medicating fish the value matters as certain meds work better under certain conditions. I suggest if you have issues discerning colors, you may want to look into digital test readers. They have really been helpful to people who are colorblind as well.

Regarding the Maracyn Oxy, That is for external issues but it's a combination of oxygen and chlorine so it's not for a main tank and should be used in a separate hospital tank. Because it contains chlorine, you have to be careful not to overdose it. For example, when the directions say 1/2 capful per 10 gallons of water, that means 10 actual gallons of water so a 10 gallon tank would not require a 1/2 capful because 10 gallon tanks do not hold 10 actual gallons of water. This means you have to measure out the water you are using. ( If you already know this stuff, my apologies but maybe it will help someone not familiar and are reading your thread. )

As for paying "$80 for a bottle of juice to save him..." I implore you to think again about that. Granted Koi Bettas are a bit expensive, they also have an inherent issue with tumors as they age so they don't always live a long easy life through no fault of the hobbyist. In fact, the farm bred Bettas of all kinds these days seem to be getting tumors no matter how fancy they are. So sometimes it just makes more sense and is less stressful on the fish to euthanize them. Sadly, the hobby as shifted away more from wild caught fish to more farm bred and genetically altered fish which has opened the fish up to new diseases, viruses and pathogens that are not always treatable. That's not to say there aren't any good farm bred fish but you have to understand that if the internet says a fish should live say 5 years +, that is for wild caught fish. Your fish may only lasts 2-3 years. ( These numbers are just examples. ) So this is something new fish keepers should know so they don't over react to situations.

So with all that said, back to your situation. It's a no lose option to wait and see because one of two things are going to happen. Either the fish will get better or the fish will die. There's no other choices. If you can't euthanize, there's nothing wrong in waiting it out and let nature take it's course. Animals have the ability to surprise us sometimes.

I'll leave you with something my Vet once told me when I had to put down one of my dogs: "Unfortunately we humans keep pets that do not live as long as we do so death will always be a part of the pet experience. The best we can do is give them the best possible life while they are with us. " So unless you have one of the few parrots or tortoises that can live 100 years, you are going to lose pets. It's all part of the pet experience.

Hope this helps

 

[wrex]

Hi and Welcome to the site.
We always try to offer information that makes the most amount of sense for the new and experienced hobbyists so you will get advice that comes from years of experience in the hobby and in my case, 45+ years in the pet business directly. ( I've also been keeping fish as a hobby for close to 60 years. )

Hope this helps

Hi Andy, thank you so much for all of your expertise. I really hope I can be as skilled at this as you are someday! I also think it's really incredible that this forum has been around since I was maybe eight years old. Thank you for keeping this corner of the internet thriving.

The commercial over-and-inbreeding of fish for the aquarium trade was definitely something I learned after I got invested in this hobby, and it's been tough to reconcile. I work in a retail pet place, so I typically get my fish from work, but I want to pursue more mom-and-pop fish stores and perhaps even online retailers. Where do you get your fish; do you have any advice for being as humane and responsible an aquarist as possible?

I just got back from a long weekend downstate and, astoundingly, Nishiki is still alive. I expected it to be a matter of days before he passed away; the longer he lives like this, the worse I feel. What should I do...?

EDIT: Thank you as well for the advice on testing and info about Maracyn Oxy. I have a hospital tank, but I don't think this will help and I don't want to hurt him more. Now that I'm home, I can also do another full pH panel and see if I can get a more consistent (so, hopefully more accurate ) read.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hi Andy, thank you so much for all of your expertise. I really hope I can be as skilled at this as you are someday! I also think it's really incredible that this forum has been around since I was maybe eight years old. Thank you for keeping this corner of the internet thriving.

The commercial over-and-inbreeding of fish for the aquarium trade was definitely something I learned after I got invested in this hobby, and it's been tough to reconcile. I work in a retail pet place, so I typically get my fish from work, but I want to pursue more mom-and-pop fish stores and perhaps even online retailers. Where do you get your fish; do you have any advice for being as humane and responsible an aquarist as possible?

I just got back from a long weekend downstate and, astoundingly, Nishiki is still alive. I expected it to be a matter of days before he passed away; the longer he lives like this, the worse I feel. What should I do...?

EDIT: Thank you as well for the advice on testing and info about Maracyn Oxy. I have a hospital tank, but I don't think this will help and I don't want to hurt him more. Now that I'm home, I can also do another full pH panel and see if I can get a more consistent (so, hopefully more accurate ) read.

I'm a veteran of the retail pet shops as well but that didn't stop me from visiting other stores as a customer. Besides, they sometimes had fish my store didn't have.

As for expertise, that comes with time and experience. ( Read my bio and you'll see my experiences )

As for the fish, there's an old expression that goes " As long as the fish is breathing, there's a chance" so it's up to you whether you want to invest in trying to medicate the fish. You have to do what you are comfortable with. Bettas do respond to clean water so that's always an option. Just keep the water clean through water changes.

As for where to get fish, there are still places that carry wild caught fish. If you are new to the hobby however, I'd get more experience in fish keeping in general before going after wild caught fish. You have to be more precise with them. The best thing you can do is not get fish that have newly arrived to a store. Let the stores take the losses or use the medications so that when you get the fish, they have gone through all the stresses that happen to fish in transit. I know that online purchasing is the " current" method of getting fish but I'm old school, VERY old school. I won't buy fish unless I see them first. I'd rather miss out then get sick fish. I don't take fish, even for free, if I see they are sick. There is no positive to trying to save a fish that a store wasn't able or was unwilling to save. I want the fish I spend my money on to be of the utmost health ( as utmost as possible) so that I'm not spending money unnecessarily. Even with that, all new fish go into a quarantine tank for a minimum of 60 -90 days because there are parasites that have a life cycle that long. The only way I don't do quarantine is if I do a species only tank and all the fish for the tank are purchased at the same time. Otherwise, you have a potential disease spread and QT avoids that.

 

[wrex]

I'm a veteran of the retail pet shops as well but that didn't stop me from visiting other stores as a customer. Besides, they sometimes had fish my store didn't have.

As for expertise, that comes with time and experience. ( Read my bio and you'll see my experiences )

As for the fish, there's an old expression that goes " As long as the fish is breathing, there's a chance" so it's up to you whether you want to invest in trying to medicate the fish. You have to do what you are comfortable with. Bettas do respond to clean water so that's always an option. Just keep the water clean through water changes.

As for where to get fish, there are still places that carry wild caught fish. If you are new to the hobby however, I'd get more experience in fish keeping in general before going after wild caught fish. You have to be more precise with them. The best thing you can do is not get fish that have newly arrived to a store.

This is true!! And in the PNW I have a handful of options; my only limit is public transit .

I will keep trying, then. Thank you.

I've mostly been pondering better, more reputable places to find betta fish! I love them a lot, and I know the ones we get in at work are from a large farm in South Korea that we know very little about. I don't really trust local hobbyists to breed healthy fry, though, either.

As for that last bit of advice, I have heard that from customers before and I need to remember it. I think that is going to be one of the keys to future success. Again, thank you for all of your knowledge, I really appreciate it!

 

[Andy Sager]

This is true!! And in the PNW I have a handful of options; my only limit is public transit .

I will keep trying, then. Thank you.

I've mostly been pondering better, more reputable places to find betta fish! I love them a lot, and I know the ones we get in at work are from a large farm in South Korea that we know very little about. I don't really trust local hobbyists to breed healthy fry, though, either.

As for that last bit of advice, I have heard that from customers before and I need to remember it. I think that is going to be one of the keys to future success. Again, thank you for all of your knowledge, I really appreciate it!

Yes, unfortunately there are many who breed bettas but they don't really keep track of genetics and/or take the time to create quality stock. You can check with the IBC ( International Betta Congress) for breeders in your area. At least there you can find better quality fish.