Quite embarrassing situation, but Im determined to WIN...

[Aiken Drum]

That's fine. Leave things alone, see where you are tomorrow.

What fish do you currently have?

One issue is your high pH. Some of your fish suit hard, high pH water (mollys) whereas some suit soft, acidic water (tetras) so moving forward you would expect the mollys to do better in your water than the tetras.

 

[Axledoc]

That's fine. Leave things alone, see where you are tomorrow.

What fish do you currently have?

One issue is your high pH. Some of your fish suit hard, high pH water (mollys) whereas some suit soft, acidic water (tetras) so moving forward you would expect the mollys to do better in your water than the tetras.

I have 5,blk/gold mollies,1 red finn tetra (had 8) and 6 little red shrimp. Also have 2 Anubias
Mollies are the same 5 I started with,3 weeks ago

 

[Axledoc]

should I attempt to lower pH?
Patience is the hardest part of this.......

 

[Aiken Drum]

Mucking about with pH usually causes more problems than it solves. It's also very difficult to lower pH as high pH is caused by mineral content. It's easy to raise pH as you add more minerals. Lowering it is difficult as it involves removing disolved mineral content and things like carbonate hardness are always working against pH lowering chemicals.

It's much better to match fish to the water rather than trying to force water to suit the fish. It's not really a surprise that the mollys are doing better than the tetras.

I'd look at livebearers as good fish to suit your aquarium. Mollys, guppies, platys, swordtails. Try and keep male only fish as livebearers breed like rabbits and you will quickly overpopulate your aquarium. In fact if you have M + F mollys, once you have your water quality under control expect to see fry.

You might be able to keep tetras, fish can be adaptable, especially farmed fish rather than wild caught fish. If you want to try that you will have to see how it goes. But let's see your water quality kept safe for a couple of weeks first.

 

[Axledoc]

Mucking about with pH usually causes more problems than it solves. It's also very difficult to lower pH as high pH is caused by mineral content. It's easy to raise pH as you add more minerals. Lowering it is difficult as it involves removing disolved mineral content and things like carbonate hardness are always working against pH lowering chemicals.

It's much better to match fish to the water rather than trying to force water to suit the fish. It's not really a surprise that the mollys are doing better than the tetras.

I'd look at livebearers as good fish to suit your aquarium. Mollys, guppies, platys, swordtails. Try and keep male only fish as livebearers breed like rabbits and you will quickly overpopulate your aquarium. In fact if you have M + F mollys, once you have your water quality under control expect to see fry.

You might be able to keep tetras, fish can be adaptable, especially farmed fish rather than wild caught fish. If you want to try that you will have to see how it goes. But let's see your water quality kept safe for a couple of weeks first.

very well, im good with matching fish to my water. I will watch it for a couple days. Thanks very much!

 

[Andy Sager]

Good Morning, this mornings tests..
Ammonia-0-.25
Nitrites-0
Nitrates-between 10 and 20 ppm
37 gal tank

guessing to watch a couple days and see what moves,or small water change?

If the tank is cycled, the nitrates should be increasing while the ammonia and nitrites remain at zero. If that's the case, you can go to a once a week water change provided your nitrates do not exceed 40 ppm in those 7 days. For the next week, check the values every 2 days to confirm the ammonia and nitrites remain at zero and see how high the nitrates get. If you see the nitrates get to 40 PPM before the week is over, you'll know that you need to be changing water every X days. ( for example, if the nitrates hit 40 ppm in 4 days, you need to change water every 3-4 days.) Keep in mind that you change water for more reasons than just to reduce nitrates so you will want to be doing water changes at least once a week.

 

[Axledoc]

I did a cursory check for the monitors we've used in the past and none of the brands we've used or sold are listed anymore. I'm not trying to spend your money but I found this which does almost everything the old brands did but it's through a smart phone. If you don't have a smart phone ( FYI, I don't have one and refuse to. I'm old and "old school" ) it won't help. Amazon.com
If an item like this is not in your budget, I suggest a trip to your local fish store and talk with them about other possible options for you that are digital.


Once a day is enough now that your readings are bearable. You'll know tomorrow if your readings are increasing or decreasing or are just not moving yet.

good morning. this mornings tests showed
Amm-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate moved from 20 yesterday to 40ppm today.
so,water change? How much? (37 gal tank)

 

[Aiken Drum]

Change half the water and see how long it takes to get back to 40ppm. If it's really going from 20ppm to 40ppm in 1 day there is something wrong. You only have 6 fish and a few shrimp. Maybe you are overfeeding?

 

[Axledoc]

Change half the water and see how long it takes to get back to 40ppm. If it's really going from 20ppm to 40ppm in 1 day there is something wrong. You only have 6 fish and a few shrimp. Maybe you are overfeeding?

i have lightened up on food and i went to once a day a couple days ago after it was suggested. Just looked at measuring spoons and I`d say I feed around 1/8 teaspoon. Ill do a 50% change and post results in am. Thank U

 

[Aiken Drum]

A fishes stomach is about the size of one of its eyes if you want a visual clue. But feed your 1/8 of a teaspoon, if there is still uneaten food after 3 minutes you are overfeeding.

 

[Axledoc]

A fishes stomach is about the size of one of its eyes if you want a visual clue. But feed your 1/8 of a teaspoon, if there is still uneaten food after 3 minutes you are overfeeding.

got it,i think im overfeeding

 

[Andy Sager]

got it,i think im overfeeding

I think Aiken hit the nail on the head. When I saw that the nitrate jumped from 20ppm to 40 ppm in a day, that was my first reaction, overfeeding. It's not about how often you feed the fish, it's how much you are feeding the fish. A general rule is to feed as much as the fish can eat in 1-2 minutes for small fish, 3-4 minutes for large fish, 2-3 times per day . Here's the thing tho, at the end of the day, the fish will have consumed a certain amount of food. So if you considered that whole amount of food consumed in a day as a pizza pie, think about how each slice of the pie gets smaller with every slice you make into it. So you could feed the fish as many times per day as you'd like as long as each feeding combined does not exceed the full day's ration. For example: If the whole amount for a day was a 1 and you fed 4 times per day, each feeding's amount should only be 1/4 of the 1. If you fed 8 times per day, each feeding should be 1/8 of the 1 and so on. By doing this, there should be no leftover food to decay in the bottom of the tank causing ammonia which would eventually become nitrate. The fact that you have a 0 ammonia level and an increasing nitrate level means you have a good biological filter bed of microbes doing their job. ( That's what a " cycled" tank should be. ) I would feed my fish 3-4 times per day and never had a nitrate issue because I followed this feeding routine and I changed water often. My fish responded very well to that routine. It's all just a learning process. Once you get your routine(s) down, fish keeping can be very easy.

 

[Axledoc]

Morning, Did my 50% change yesterday. This mornings tests show ammonia and nitrites are good. Nitrates were 40 yesterday before change and are still at 30 today. I did the test 3 times to make sure. So daily water changes till nitrates go down?

 

[Andy Sager]

Morning, Did my 50% change yesterday. This mornings tests show ammonia and nitrites are good. Nitrates were 40 yesterday before change and are still at 30 today. I did the test 3 times to make sure. So daily water changes till nitrates go down?

Yes. Make sure you are cleaning small sections of the substrate once a week to remove any uneaten food that may be contributing to such a high nitrate level. Look for pockets in decorations that may be hiding uneaten food. ( You don't want to do large areas of the substrate as some of the nitrifying microbes can be on the surfaces of the substrate. By only doing this cleaning once weekly, it gives the microbe colonies a chance to rebuild between cleanings. )

 

[Axledoc]

Yes. Make sure you are cleaning small sections of the substrate once a week to remove any uneaten food that may be contributing to such a high nitrate level. Look for pockets in decorations that may be hiding uneaten food. ( You don't want to do large areas of the substrate as some of the nitrifying microbes can be on the surfaces of the substrate. By only doing this cleaning once weekly, it gives the microbe colonies a chance to rebuild between cleanings. )

Very well, Thank You

 

[Axledoc]

Did the 50% change, nitrates fell from 40 to barley under 20.

Question....assuming it stays around 20, then daily smaller changes until it falls in line?

 

[Aiken Drum]

Nitrate wont fall in line.

The nitrogen cycle turns ammonia into nitrate. As long as ammonia is going into the system Nitrate will increase. The amount of nitrate is dependant on the amount of ammonia. It won't start lowering without your intervention.

Typically you control nitrate levels with water changes. A 50% water change, assuming your tap water is nitrate free, will half the nitrate. If a weekly 50% water change isn't enough to keep nitrate below 40ppm you have too much ammonia going into the aquarium. This is what I meant by.

If it's really going from 20ppm to 40ppm in 1 day there is something wrong.

Typical sources of excess ammonia are too many fish and overfeeding. Your arent overstocked and from what you have said you are controlling the feed better. But your nitrate is still rising too quickly, and that must be coming from an ammonia source.

Perhaps it's excess food that you havent managed to syphon out yet and it will resolve itself over time as things get cleaned up.

Substrates, especially soil based substates can sometimes leach ammonia into the water. What substrate do you have? Maybe try a test and put some of your substrate in a jug of clean water and let it sit for a day or 2 and then test to see if it's contaminated with ammonia.

Other things you can do to control excess nitrates is keep nutrient hungry plants. Floating plants are great at soaking up nitrate.

If we cant figure it out, then maybe its time to consider a nitrate absorbing pad in the filtration. You dont want to be stuck changing water every day for ever more or the hobby will just become a chore.

Have a think about whats in the aquarium and what might be releasing ammonia. Anything dead and decomposing?

 

[Axledoc]

Substrate is blue and white rock,mostly 1 -2 inches of depth, some higher spots and some lower. What are the rules on vacuuming? meaning just skim the top?
Yesterdays 50% water change was just water, todays change I put the siphon tube down in the substrate and inch or so,got what I would call quite alot of gunk, and pretty much did the whole bottom. Also today I seen 20 or 30 little orange (wife confirmed) dots (prob 4mm) on the glass on all 4 sides to which I ran the little brush over before todays drain. Is cleaning interior glass supposed to happen at weekly intervals too?

 

[Andy Sager]

Substrate is blue and white rock,mostly 1 -2 inches of depth, some higher spots and some lower. What are the rules on vacuuming? meaning just skim the top?
Yesterdays 50% water change was just water, todays change I put the siphon tube down in the substrate and inch or so,got what I would call quite alot of gunk, and pretty much did the whole bottom. Also today I seen 20 or 30 little orange (wife confirmed) dots (prob 4mm) on the glass on all 4 sides to which I ran the little brush over before todays drain. Is cleaning interior glass supposed to happen at weekly intervals too?

Unfortunately, you shouldn't have done the whole substrate no matter how much gunk came out of it for the reason I explained in post #34. Now you will need to test daily for ammonia as well as nitrates. What you had before was a balanced system of microbes that was converting all the ammonia and nitrites into nitrates. What you may have done was remove some of those microbes thereby reducing the system's ability to convert the ammonia/nitrites in a timely manner. You should know within the week just how much damage you may have done. Maybe none, maybe some? Your ammonia and nitrite test results will tell you.

As for the " rule" for vacuuming, ( There is no rule ) you want to stir up about 1/4 or less of the bottom to get whatever " gunk" may be in the substrate a little bit before you do your water change. As the detritus settles, you can easily siphon it off the surface of the gravel. Doing a different section once a week is more than enough. Again, you don't want to do large areas of the bottom at any one time because your nitrifying microbes use the gravel as a "home" if there is enough oxygen flowing over it. There's no way of knowing before hand where they are which is why you need to be cautious. They could be in mass at one spot while non existent in other spots. This is a " better safe than sorry" situation. Best is to make a pattern of cleaning so that you don't overdo one area and underdo another area. Some people find it helpful to write out a plan for what area gets done which week. ( i.e. Left quarter on week 1, left center on week 2, etc)

The orange dots may be algae forming but most likely are snail egg casings. If you don't want to have lots of snails, you'll want to remove most of them when you see them. Just scraping them off the glass will not kill them. You'll need to remove them from the water. As for how often do you NEED to clean the glass, you actually never need to clean the glass. That biofilm that is forming can help filter out impurities from the water. The problem is that most people don't like seeing excess biofilm or algae in their tank so they clean their tanks or they get fish or snails that like to eat that biofilm so the tank looks clean. You can judge for yourself when you want to clean the inside glass. If you have fish that like the eat that biofilm, you might want to let the film grow on the back panel so the fish have something to eat.

On a final note, fish keeping is not a case where " If some is good, a lot is better." Fish like consistency. Drastic moves will kill fish faster than diseases or mishandling will. Once you get things under control, you should make a schedule so that you know that on "this" day, you do water changes. At " these" times, you feed your fish. The light is on for "X" number of hours ( you either put the lighting on a timer or physically turn the light on or off at a particular time.) Fish keeping can be as easy or as hard as you want to make it. It's easier when you do things consistently.

Hope this helps.

 

[Axledoc]

Any opinions on the HANNA Checkers for Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates. Seems like for me being color blind,the suggestion of digital testing Eq. will be better,assuming they can be trusted.
My numbers have been good for days , no amm or nitrites and the nitrates are either 20 or 40.....to my eyes. Thats why I ask about digital. Is it normal for the steps up to be that large?