Seeking folks experienced w/Hillstream Loaches (HEY ANDY!!!)

[EGGBERT]

(Hoping Andy Sager will also see this post!!!)

Currently have a hillstream isolated in a medicated nano tank (2.5gals)—meds: Seachem Kanaplex—reason: observed what appears to be tiny spot of fungus.

His mates r housed in a recently cycled 20gal—all inhabitants appear healthy, lively. Ironically, apart from the fungus concern, the guy in question has stable, excellent colouration & appetite, but he’s been isolated since Friday (10 Oct) & hasn’t unfastened himself from the nano tank’s heater. The tank contains an algae coated object (for hiding) & an algae coated plant (from another aquarium).

Kanaplex instructions r to medicate a max of 3x (w/2 days between each dose); next dose is tomorrow (TG, Monday, 13 Oct).

I think he’s depressed (what isolated schooling fish wouldn’t be?), & i’m concerned that he’s not eating—how many days can a fish undergoing healthcare treatment starve themselves?

The photos r of the nano tank (now has diff. aerator), the patient clinging to the heater, & the patient himself (i know it’s hard to detect much).

Please advise—REALLY WORRIED—TY

 

[EGGBERT]

Further…
He finally moved from the bottom to the side of the heater (photo below); I think he looks great & i wonder if i should rtn him to the 20gal; he still has a weird issue that began about a month ago in the previous habitat, a 10gal—that issue being a reduction in his adhesion capability, which had not adversely impacted his appearance (colouration) or behaviour (including appetite).

Anyone out there experience anything of this nature?

 

[Andy Sager]

Further…
He finally moved from the bottom to the side of the heater (photo below); I think he looks great & i wonder if i should rtn him to the 20gal; he still has a weird issue that began about a month ago in the previous habitat, a 10gal—that issue being a reduction in his adhesion capability, which had not adversely impacted his appearance (colouration) or behaviour (including appetite).

Anyone out there experience anything of this nature?

It looks more like an excess of body slime than fungus. Fish will do that as a band-aid when they bump into things or have irritations at a certain spot. The under skin does not look like it's broken so there's no place for a fungus to grow on. If the fish isn't eating, I'd put him back into the 20. If he is eating, I'd leave him in the smaller tank and do at least a full course of the Kanaplex before putting him back into the 20. Don't forget to do at least a 30%-40% water change before each dose of Kanaplex. Regarding how long they can go without eating, if a fish is well fed, it can go 1-2 weeks most often without issue but then needs to gradually be fed more food to get them plump again. Regarding being alone, sick fish do not need company. All company does is either get the company sick, get sicker themselves or get attacked by the company because sick fish are prime targets for killing and eating.
The fact that he's sucking on something in the pic says that the problem was not with the fish but the surface of what he was trying to suck on to. Most likely too much biofilm as we discussed previously.
(FYI, I sent you a PM regarding what to do. )

 

[EGGBERT]

Thanks Andy—will look for the PM!

Honestly, i don’t know if he’s eating (in his current location—the isolation tank) he was eating normally in the 20gal, pre-transfer. As mentioned, he finally budged from the heater (bottom) he was fastened to, but haven’t witnessed feeding since that shift.

I’m going to eyeball him shortly—it would be encouraging to see him going at the algae—but no expectations here.

Per Kanaplex instructions—3 doses max—BUT, they recommend returning the patient to their ‘normal’ habitat (20gal in this case), IF the condition ‘appears’ ‘cured’.
Right now he looks pretty good to me, & the ‘slidey’ factor seems like more of an ‘inconvenience’ to him than anything (suggesting this on basis of coloration & appetite).

Do u think he needs more than one more dose? Water parameters have been stable (checking every day)—but will not skip the big change u recommend pre- successive doses.

Just checked him—hasn’t budged from his new location, which is not to say he didn’t betw now & when i last checked

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks Andy—will look for the PM!

Honestly, i don’t know if he’s eating (in his current location—the isolation tank) he was eating normally in the 20gal, pre-transfer. As mentioned, he finally budged from the heater (bottom) he was fastened to, but haven’t witnessed feeding since that shift.

I’m going to eyeball him shortly—it would be encouraging to see him going at the algae—but no expectations here.

Per Kanaplex instructions—3 doses max—BUT, they recommend returning the patient to their ‘normal’ habitat (20gal in this case), IF the condition ‘appears’ ‘cured’.

Is the white area all cleared up?

Right now he looks pretty good to me, & the ‘slidey’ factor seems like more of an ‘inconvenience’ to him than anything (suggesting this on basis of coloration & appetite).

Do u think he needs more than one more dose? Water parameters have been stable (checking every day)—but will not skip the big change u recommend pre- successive doses.

Just checked him—hasn’t budged from his new location, which is not to say he didn’t betw now & when i last checked

Since you need to do a water change tomorrow anyway, add 1/2 algae wafer to the tank and see if he eats it after lights are off.

 

[EGGBERT]

I don’t see the concerning white spot, but i’m experiencing a bit of confusion in distinguishing between ‘cosmetic’ vs potentially unwelcome markings, texture, etc—BUT, overall he looks good

Making sure i’m clear on your advice:
- add a bit of wafer tonight
- proceed w/water change & medicating tomorrow (whether he eats or not?!!!)

 

[Andy Sager]

I don’t see the concerning white spot, but i’m experiencing a bit of confusion in distinguishing between ‘cosmetic’ vs potentially unwelcome markings, texture, etc—BUT, overall he looks good

Making sure i’m clear on your advice:
- add a bit of wafer tonight
- proceed w/water change & medicating tomorrow (whether he eats or not?!!!)

Fungus does not usually attach to the skin unless the skin is broken. If you look at the area you circled, the skin is not broken as the pattern in the skin is complete.

As for what to do, I wanted you to try feeding the fish but not with so much food that it pollutes the water. That's why the 1/2 of the wafer. Unfortunately, that should have been last night as the fish may be shy to feed during the day. Short term exposures to any antibiotic can cause bacteria to build a resistance to it. If you only did one dose and the issue resolved, cutting the full treatment short can cause problems in the future and it's best to do the full treatment and if the fish is eating, it means that he's okay in that little tank. If he's not eating, he may be too stressed and putting him back into the big tank can solve that problem and you'd need to remember that if the fish gets a bacterial infection in the future and it doesn't respond to the Kanaplex, it means you need to try a different antibiotic which can be more difficult for you to get.

So if it were me, I would try the food now and hold off on the Kanaplex until later. If by tonight the fish hasn't eaten and he shows no sign of the original issue, put him back into the 20. If he does eat, I'd leave him in the smaller tank and do a full 3 dose course of the treatment.

That's how I'd handle it. Unfortunately, really small tanks like you are using have multiple issues that can cause the fish to act "off" and it's not the disease that's the cause but the tank. But how would you know which is which? This is why I use a 10 gallon tank for a hospital tank and only fill it with 5 gallons of water so that I can properly dose the water and the fish has no reason to have other issues outside of being sick.

 

[EGGBERT]

Did water change & administered 2nd dose—fish looks great—hope i’m not overdoing it & wonder if i should rtn him to the 20gal later today, vs another day or so, & would prefer not to give 3rd dose. Opinion? TY

 

[EGGBERT]

Sorry Andy—u already answered my Q—was really stressed yesterday & missed part of your reply… Will carry on—will likely transfer fish tonight or tomorrow. TY

 

[EGGBERT]

PS, i DID put the wafer bit in last nite (per your recommendation). He’s moved around more—a positive change—& he looks great.

It’s TG on this side if the border—will be away from home for several hrs—will hopefully transfer later.

 

[Andy Sager]

PS, i DID put the wafer bit in last nite (per your recommendation). He’s moved around more—a positive change—& he looks great.

But did he eat it?

It’s TG on this side if the border—will be away from home for several hrs—will hopefully transfer later.

Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[EGGBERT]

Andy: i did rtn the ailing bro to the 20gal—u would think corralling him in a teeny tank would’ve been a cinch—NO WAY: i thought the stress of the capture would do him in—but he’s fine—looks terrific—& bonus: his adhesion capability—so far—appears to be restored
Huge Qs: what the hay caused it? does the condition have a name (apart from adhesion loss)?
The kanaplex is supposed to treat fungal & bacterial infections; no one that i consulted, & no online research made any connection between infection & loss of adhesion in hillstream loaches (which is not to say there aren’t answers to this that i didn’t encounter).

Surely this info will be helpful/useful to someone who’s stumped about a weirdass condition!!!

 

[EGGBERT]

PS: don’t know if he ate any of the wafer—might have—BUT, his behaviour is ‘normal’ back in the 20gal—appears to be celebrating the rtn of his adhesion!!!

 

[Andy Sager]

Andy: i did rtn the ailing bro to the 20gal—u would think corralling him in a teeny tank would’ve been a cinch—NO WAY: i thought the stress of the capture would do him in—but he’s fine—looks terrific—& bonus: his adhesion capability—so far—appears to be restored
Huge Qs: what the hay caused it? does the condition have a name (apart from adhesion loss)?
The kanaplex is supposed to treat fungal & bacterial infections; no one that i consulted, & no online research made any connection between infection & loss of adhesion in hillstream loaches (which is not to say there aren’t answers to this that i didn’t encounter).

I'm betting the problem wasn't with the fish, it was with what he was trying to suck onto. If the glass isn't clean, suction cups don't work. Have you ever tried to use suction cups on a heater on dirty tank walls? They don't stick either while they work fine on clean glass.

Surely this info will be helpful/useful to someone who’s stumped about a weirdass condition!!!