Sick dwarf loach

[chelseymoreau]

Hello,
My rank, 45 gal freshwater. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40, temp 78. 10 rummynose tetra, 10 harlequin raspora, 8 dwarf chain loach, 1 King tiger pleco .set up over a year no new fish.
Noticed dwarf chain loach much skinnier than all the others and panting, moved to hospital tank. When fed bloodworms he gets excited and puts his mouth on them but won't eat. Noticed slight discoloration on his head. He was quite active in hospital tank. In Canada couldn't find broad spectrum antibiotic, I found fritz bactershield.
I Dosed one dose and next day ammonia and Nitrate were high so I did water change. Not supposed to on those meds. Re Dosed. Put in a pinch of aquarium salt. He is teying to hide mostly, still won't eat but doesn't seem too bad. Any advice Please.
No new fish added since the loaches last oct, all other fish doing great.
The pic is bad but you can see discoloration. Video shows him going for food and not eating.

 

[Andy Sager]

You're best using things like clean PVC pipe or other inert items for hiding places in a hospital tank so that there is no die off of anything like biofilm from the main tank. That may be why your ammonia shot up overnight.
If the fish has become skinny over time, there is a good chance it's an internal worm causing this. If this was a sudden event, it's possible that a parasite egg may have been in either the fish or the tank and finally hatched and found a host. ( bottom living fish are prone to getting worms and ground parasites. ) If you can get the Fritz products, I would add Paracleanse to the treatment. That deals with many types of internal and external parasites. This way you are covered for both parasites and possible bacterial infection.

 

[chelseymoreau]

Thank you so much for responding. I was out when I saw your message so picked up some pipe pieces. So I've been to 4 stores and that fritz was all I could find at all, besides tetra lifeguard which I did buy but it says not OK scaleless fish.
So if I wanted to buy the paracleanse or anything else it would half to be amazon and wont be here until next weds or so. Think he would make it that long? I should keep dosing with bactershield? Keep trying to feed him?

 

[Andy Sager]

Thank you so much for responding. I was out when I saw your message so picked up some pipe pieces. So I've been to 4 stores and that fritz was all I could find at all, besides tetra lifeguard which I did buy but it says not OK scaleless fish.
So if I wanted to buy the paracleanse or anything else it would half to be amazon and wont be here until next weds or so. Think he would make it that long? I should keep dosing with bactershield? Keep trying to feed him?

At this point, if he's not eating, I'd not try for a day or so before trying one time per day to see if it will eat. If not eating, you are just polluting the hospital tank. I'd also turn off any lights on the tank so that the fish is not expending energy without getting any nutrition for supplying the energy. I'd see if there is any other brand of antiparasitic or medication with praziquantal and metronidazole ( which are both in Paracleanse) available.
It's hard to say if the fish would survive a delay in getting the Paracleanse to be honest. If the fish is currently active, there is hope. If the fish is just floundering around, I'd say not.

 

[chelseymoreau]

He's not doing too bad, he is active, I know 4 days is long. I'm reaching out to the other local fish shops to see if they have anything, someone else suggested maybe I can find methylene blue and do a dip, would that be beneficial/safe for him? I should still continue the bactershield? The guy at the first first store I went to yesterday said try a pinch of aquarium salt, I know loaches can't tolerate salt but he said a little can be beneficial?
He seems the same this morning and ammonia at 0 still so I'm happy for that at least.

 

[chelseymoreau]

I've been informed that stores cannot sell fish medication in canada. It has been banned

 

[Aiken Drum]

Canada has the most restrictive legislation regarding fish medication that im aware of. Many countries limit certain antibiotic medications to vets prescription only, but allow anti-fungal and anti parasitic medication to be bought over the counter, along with less effective antibiotics like malachite green and methylene blue based products. Canada banned everything that isnt essentially a herbal remedy without a vets prescription.

 

[chelseymoreau]

One person did reply that they habe methalyne blue, could this help in my situation?

 

[Andy Sager]

One person did reply that they habe methalyne blue, could this help in my situation?

Not if it's parasitic in nature. Meth Blue/ salt will not do anything different than the Bactershield. There have also been some issues with aquarium Meth Blue in the U.S. so I would stick with the Bactershield.
If you have a local Vet you can consult with, ask about Kanamycin if your water pH is above 7.0 or Nitrofuracin if your water pH is below 7.0.

 

[chelseymoreau]

I was able to see the only fish vet in the city, he saw me after close as he's going out of town for a week, he prescribed metronidazole for 7 days. I will update as to how it goes. Thank you for all the information!

 

[Andy Sager]

I was able to see the only fish vet in the city, he saw me after close as he's going out of town for a week, he prescribed metronidazole for 7 days. I will update as to how it goes. Thank you for all the information!

Okay, so now you will have an antiparasitic as well as the bactershield so all should be covered. Hopefully the fish responds.

Keep us posted.

 

[chelseymoreau]

Fish is still looking and acting the same, hasn't eaten, but hasn't gotten worse. Vet told me to hold off eating for a day, I've tested the water today and it would appear the cycle crashed as the nitrates are at 0. Ammonia and Nitrite also 0. Now what? I have one more sponge filter I could pull from my main tank. But this would be the last, I wouldn't want to take any more after this. I suppose even if he isn't eating I should add a little food every day to maintain the cycle?

 

[chelseymoreau]

Fish is still looking and acting the same, hasn't eaten, but hasn't gotten worse. Vet told me to hold off eating for a day, I've tested the water today and it would appear the cycle crashed as the nitrates are at 0. Ammonia and Nitrite also 0. Now what? I have one more sponge filter I could pull from my main tank. But this would be the last, I wouldn't want to take any more after this. I suppose even if he isn't eating I should add a little food every day to maintain the cycle?

Just wanted to add he has me doing 70% water change daily before re-dosing.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Your test results are zero because you are doing frequent, big water changes, not because your cycle crashed. A sign your cycle isnt functioning would be your ammonia and/ or nitrite being positive. Zero nitrate isnt a sign your cycle crashed, its just a sign your water changes are keeping the water as pristine as possible which is a good thing.

 

[chelseymoreau]

Great news, thank you!

 

[Andy Sager]

Your test results are zero because you are doing frequent, big water changes, not because your cycle crashed. A sign your cycle isnt functioning would be your ammonia and/ or nitrite being positive. Zero nitrate isnt a sign your cycle crashed, its just a sign your water changes are keeping the water as pristine as possible which is a good thing.

Yeah, what Aiken said. Truthfully, when medicating fish in a hospital tank, you really don't need a cycled tank because the majority of the medications used will either kill or suppress the nitrifying microbes so that only makes things worse and they usually have a water change schedule that will keep any ammonia level from getting to a toxic level. A quarantine tank is a different story because you are expecting to keep the fish in there for month(s) while a hospital tank is usually a week to 2 weeks. This is why you don't medicate in a quarantine tank or store fish in a hospital tank. They serve 2 very different purposes.

 

[chelseymoreau]

Good to know thank you

 

[chelseymoreau]

Well it's day 7 of the fish's treatment and I'm sad to report he os the same. Still won't eat. I've tried every type of food, and even got the garlic stuff to make it more desirable. Not sure what to do, if I should euthanize or just let him be.

 

[Andy Sager]

Well it's day 7 of the fish's treatment and I'm sad to report he os the same. Still won't eat. I've tried every type of food, and even got the garlic stuff to make it more desirable. Not sure what to do, if I should euthanize or just let him be.

Contact the Vet again to see if he has other meds to try. If you can get live black worms or live brine shrimp, I'd try those. Fish rarely will refuse live food even over frozen, freezedried or flakes. It comes down to trying to figure out if the fish doesn't swallow the food because of a blockage/ infection or because it doesn't like the taste/smell of the food.

 

[chelseymoreau]

The vet is out of town until Monday, so he told me to call then if the fish is still alive. I've tried to look for live worms but from what I've been told they're not available here. I do have snails in the tank that live in the filter of my main tank and the loaches love them, he hasn't been interested. He does still swim around a little, but still breathing heavily this whole time.