Time for an update

[fishkeeper123]

Things have changed a lot since I’ve updated my journal or anything like that so would share what’s happened. I’ll be honest I’ve not really followed much of the advice that’s been on here and I’m sorry. Some of things you said have been completely correct, in my defence I’m a member of like maybe 10 forums and have been given advice by 4-5 others, I concluded what the majority said so I’m sorry.
Here’s what’s happened, I bought the cories in January, then after that one of the Bolivian rams and a Cory died(due to body rot it was not pleasant). Then I got a keyhole cichlid and Electric blue acara(I know you said against it but yes I did and I regret it). They settled in together well, around march time I got them. Then, I came home from holiday to find the keyhole a very dark colour. Later observing, he was being bullied by the acara. So I decided(with advice) “I need some dithers.” Next day a group of 6 yellow rainbowfish were bought. They settled into the tank diverting aggression a bit. The Bolivian ram and keyhole also now seem to be great friends which is nice and stick together away from the acara. Then last weekend the acara got stuck in an ornament. He had some injuries, but not too bad. I dosed the tank with general tonic, Maidenhead recommended it to me. It turned the tank bright green to my surprise. However I searched it up and the 2 main ingredients turn it green. Then a few hours later i saw a Cory turned upside down at the bottom of the tank. 50% water change done instantly. Played out for a week them today I saw some spots on his head, did another 50% water change. Acara is acting back to normal and is less aggressive to the others but still not friendly. I think long term I’ll take him back and get more keyholes. Just to add I’ve not changed filter and all is going well, so I’m going with it but may add a 2nd in the future. I really enjoy the keyholes and the bristlenose but the others are alright but not really sure on what I will have when I’m content and everything is going well. Sorry it’s a long post.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I’m a member of like maybe 10 forums

I voted for your cory.

 

[fishkeeper123]

I voted for your cory.

Cheers, I knew I was never going to win tho. I just entered to add another option, but I’m bad at taking photos and have absolutely no connection with any particular cory. I posted a similar thread like this one on that forum as well, so I’m sure you knew anyway.

 

[Andy Sager]

One of the nice things about the internet is that you get to hear opinions by a number of people. The bad thing about getting so much information from so many sources is that the internet has no filter and so anybody can post on it. Then there is the " too many cooks spoil the broth" effect. Most people learn from trial and error, as you have. Some things to consider when taking advice: 1) What qualifies the person to be giving the advice? How many years have they been keeping fish? 2) Is the advisor working with your water parameters or your sized tank? 3) How long has the advisor been keeping the specie in question? 4) Is the advisor talking about a wild specimen or a farm raised specimen?
Here's the thing, just like people, not all fish act the way they should according to the book or internet. Someone who has just kept one specimen of a specie, has a very limited knowledge base about the specie no matter how long they have had it. They may have just been lucky with their one or they may not have been fully honest about their experience or they are just "parroting" information they read online or from other members or forums. Think of it this way: If one person is told bad information and they pass it on to 10 people and those 10 people say the same thing so it looks like it's the accepted answer, it doesn't change the fact that it's bad information. If someone here posts questions about breeding Angelfish, I like to refer them to a couple of threads here regarding Angelfish breeding because they contained multiple people's experience. For me, I've bred over 400 pairs of them and have seen behaviors many haven't with just a single pair or two so I'm rarely told a situation I haven't already experienced. lol
I don't chime in much on your posts as I defer to people in the UK or Europe because there's a greater chance they are local to you or have your local info. I was an importer/ wholesaler in the U.S so I have experience in fish from all over the world and more importantly, water conditions in many areas of the U.S. so I can be of help to people here or as a second opinion elsewhere.
The bottom line is that it's your tank. You can do what you want with it. If you go against recommendations and it works out, that's great. Another piece of information for the knowledge bank. If it doesn't work out, don't be surprised or upset if you get an " I told you so. " as a good hearted ribbing. ( We like to keep it light in here. )
So just some information for you to contemplate on your fishy journey.

 

[fishkeeper123]

One of the nice things about the internet is that you get to hear opinions by a number of people. The bad thing about getting so much information from so many sources is that the internet has no filter and so anybody can post on it. Then there is the " too many cooks spoil the broth" effect. Most people learn from trial and error, as you have. Some things to consider when taking advice: 1) What qualifies the person to be giving the advice? How many years have they been keeping fish? 2) Is the advisor working with your water parameters or your sized tank? 3) How long has the advisor been keeping the specie in question? 4) Is the advisor talking about a wild specimen or a farm raised specimen?
Here's the thing, just like people, not all fish act the way they should according to the book or internet. Someone who has just kept one specimen of a specie, has a very limited knowledge base about the specie no matter how long they have had it. They may have just been lucky with their one or they may not have been fully honest about their experience or they are just "parroting" information they read online or from other members or forums. Think of it this way: If one person is told bad information and they pass it on to 10 people and those 10 people say the same thing so it looks like it's the accepted answer, it doesn't change the fact that it's bad information. If someone here posts questions about breeding Angelfish, I like to refer them to a couple of threads here regarding Angelfish breeding because they contained multiple people's experience. For me, I've bred over 400 pairs of them and have seen behaviors many haven't with just a single pair or two so I'm rarely told a situation I haven't already experienced. lol
I don't chime in much on your posts as I defer to people in the UK or Europe because there's a greater chance they are local to you or have your local info. I was an importer/ wholesaler in the U.S so I have experience in fish from all over the world and more importantly, water conditions in many areas of the U.S. so I can be of help to people here or as a second opinion elsewhere.
The bottom line is that it's your tank. You can do what you want with it. If you go against recommendations and it works out, that's great. Another piece of information for the knowledge bank. If it doesn't work out, don't be surprised or upset if you get an " I told you so. " as a good hearted ribbing. ( We like to keep it light in here. )
So just some information for you to contemplate on your fishy journey.

Thanks for the response , the person whose advice I went with knows a lot about fish. They are the owner of a large pet store(company) and sell there own products , have their own forum, definitely has kept the fish. I won’t say but im sure you can give a guess.

I really appreciate all the knowledge both you and Aiken have shared. That’s why I decided it was worth giving an update rather than leaving it and continuing posting but giving no update on how my tanks going.
On another topic have either of you bred keyholes? Are they super aggressive breeders or could a group be kept together in my size tank(if I took out fish like the acara)? How many tanks would I need to breed them and would they breed in my pretty much neutral tank?

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks for the response , the person whose advice I went with knows a lot about fish. They are the owner of a large pet store(company) and sell there own products , have their own forum, definitely has kept the fish. I won’t say but im sure you can give a guess.

I really appreciate all the knowledge both you and Aiken have shared. That’s why I decided it was worth giving an update rather than leaving it and continuing posting but giving no update on how my tanks going.
On another topic have either of you bred keyholes? Are they super aggressive breeders or could a group be kept together in my size tank(if I took out fish like the acara)? How many tanks would I need to breed them and would they breed in my pretty much neutral tank?

With cichlids, all of them get a little nasty at least when it comes to breeding. My preference is to get about 6 of them as smalls and let them pair off naturally then either remove the pair to another tank or remove the other bottom dwelling fish. If you are just trying to add a definite mate for your one fish, it may get rejected and they just are tankmates. All fish types will try to eat the eggs which is why tanks with catfish and plecos especially rarely have good spawning outcomes as these fish types eat the eggs at night when the parent guards are sleeping. In community tanks, if you have one large enough, it's safest for the other fish if you use a divider in the tank so that the pair can be on one side and the other fish on the other side. Keyholes tend to be good parents after they have spawned a few times. It becomes a learning process for them. One of the other problems with spawning them in a community tank is that the male sometimes will spend more time fighting off intruders rather than fertilizing the eggs fast enough.
When you say " aggressive " breeders, do you mean frequency or nastiness? If you let the fish raise their fry, they won't usually spawn again until the fry are about 3-4 months old and able to be on their own. If I recall correctly, they will spawn about once a month if you have a good conditioning regimen if they lose their last spawn. If you mean nastiness, almost all cichlids go through a pre mating "joust" ( for a lack of a better word) where they test each other's suitability as a mate. This will include lip locking, rubbing against each other, head shakes and such. All this is to make sure they are picking the healthiest mate. Unfortunately with any Cichlid, loss of body parts ( eyes, fins, lips) is always a possibility. I've had many a pair of Angels with one only having one eye or pretty beaten up before spawning. We won't even get into what an Oscar pair could look like. It's just a cichlid thing. Once they form the pair, there rarely is any more jousting.

As for how many tanks would you need, you will need at least 2 since the fry will have to grow out in a different tank. I usually had the parents in a smaller tank ( 15-20 gallons) and a much larger tank 50 gallons + for the grow outs. You don't want the fry crowded or else they will take forever to be market sized. Which brings up the next point, young pairs may only have about 100-150 eggs per spawn while older pairs can have about 300-400 eggs per spawn. Make sure you have an outlet to get rid of all those fish if you are serious about breeding them. If you are looking just for a " one and done" experience with spawning them, I highly recommend separating the pair after you remove the fry so there is no chance of further spawns.

Hope this helps.

 

[fishkeeper123]

With cichlids, all of them get a little nasty at least when it comes to breeding. My preference is to get about 6 of them as smalls and let them pair off naturally then either remove the pair to another tank or remove the other bottom dwelling fish. If you are just trying to add a definite mate for your one fish, it may get rejected and they just are tankmates. All fish types will try to eat the eggs which is why tanks with catfish and plecos especially rarely have good spawning outcomes as these fish types eat the eggs at night when the parent guards are sleeping. In community tanks, if you have one large enough, it's safest for the other fish if you use a divider in the tank so that the pair can be on one side and the other fish on the other side. Keyholes tend to be good parents after they have spawned a few times. It becomes a learning process for them. One of the other problems with spawning them in a community tank is that the male sometimes will spend more time fighting off intruders rather than fertilizing the eggs fast enough.
When you say " aggressive " breeders, do you mean frequency or nastiness? If you let the fish raise their fry, they won't usually spawn again until the fry are about 3-4 months old and able to be on their own. If I recall correctly, they will spawn about once a month if you have a good conditioning regimen if they lose their last spawn. If you mean nastiness, almost all cichlids go through a pre mating "joust" ( for a lack of a better word) where they test each other's suitability as a mate. This will include lip locking, rubbing against each other, head shakes and such. All this is to make sure they are picking the healthiest mate. Unfortunately with any Cichlid, loss of body parts ( eyes, fins, lips) is always a possibility. I've had many a pair of Angels with one only having one eye or pretty beaten up before spawning. We won't even get into what an Oscar pair could look like. It's just a cichlid thing. Once they form the pair, there rarely is any more jousting.

As for how many tanks would you need, you will need at least 2 since the fry will have to grow out in a different tank. I usually had the parents in a smaller tank ( 15-20 gallons) and a much larger tank 50 gallons + for the grow outs. You don't want the fry crowded or else they will take forever to be market sized. Which brings up the next point, young pairs may only have about 100-150 eggs per spawn while older pairs can have about 300-400 eggs per spawn. Make sure you have an outlet to get rid of all those fish if you are serious about breeding them. If you are looking just for a " one and done" experience with spawning them, I highly recommend separating the pair after you remove the fry so there is no chance of further spawns.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the long response, I’ll have a think about it, it does give a reason to get another tank. So do you think it’s better to keep just the one keyhole if I don’t want breeding because they will be kept in the main tank or could I remove fry(is that possible) and is my pleco likely to any fry as soon as they breed? I have little interest of breeding I just want to give the keyhole a partner or other keyholes as company. Therefore how many keyholes is best to get in my current circumstance. In the future I will definitely try to breed them as it would be an awesome thing to do.

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks for the long response, I’ll have a think about it, it does give a reason to get another tank. So do you think it’s better to keep just the one keyhole if I don’t want breeding because they will be kept in the main tank or could I remove fry(is that possible) and is my pleco likely to any fry as soon as they breed? I have little interest of breeding I just want to give the keyhole a partner or other keyholes as company. Therefore how many keyholes is best to get in my current circumstance. In the future I will definitely try to breed them as it would be an awesome thing to do.

Even tho the specie tends to do better in larger schools, if your single is doing okay, eating well, not being bullied and you don't want to deal with potential breeding issues, I'd keep it alone. Otherwise, I'd either get 2 or 3 more of the same gender as yours or if you can't sex yours, just be prepared if you see any aggressive behavior ( pre mating behavior) to remove one of the fish. Keep in mind tho that if you put 2 or 3 more in a 20 gallon tank, that's not going to leave room for much more in fish.
As for the pleco eating the fry, usually it doesn't get that far. They will usually eat the eggs faster than they will eat the fry.
Breeding fish can be a fun thing to do. I used to make my living from it. That said, it can also be a real pain if you can't get rid of your overstock. A long time ago, I assisted someone on here from Australia on breeding Angelfish. I told him the pros and the cons. I assured him that if he followed my directions to the tee, he would have more Angelfish than he knew what to do with so he better make sure he had an outlet for all the fish he was going to produce. Long story short, about 4 to 5 months in he was asking me " How do I turn them off from breeding??? I can't get rid of them all!!!! I'm just saying, if you don't have a place to move your extra stock to and you are not okay with your fish possibly getting disfigured, don't breed any cichlids.