So i got a 75gal with l144s l128 l183 julii corys dalmatian white ghost knifes and 2 clown loaches and few guppys and maybe last week i noticed white specs on the loaches and one on the male guppy and one or 2 on my long fin albino bristle nose babys first thought maybe food particals on slim coat but few days go by still there i crank heat to 88 89 and 4 days go by and the loaches seem to be getting more on them but the rest of the tanks seems fin the loaches still act rather normal not sure please help thank you
White dots need help
- Thread starter swinshady
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
The first thing you need to figure out is if this is Ich or Epistylis. This chart should help you: 
Whats wrong with the chart? It's explaining the difference between ich and epistylis.
Are you trying to say it's neither because the temperature is 89f? That's not how it works. Higher temperature speeds up the life cycle of the parasites so the infectious stage is shorter, and you get to the free swimming stage where medication is effective, quicker. While there will be a temperature that will kill these parasites, different strains of the same parasite will have different tolerances for temperature. 89f isn't necessarily going to kill the ich parasite, some strains are known to survive into the 90s, and higher temperature will make epistylis more virulent.
From your photos I would say ich.
Are you trying to say it's neither because the temperature is 89f? That's not how it works. Higher temperature speeds up the life cycle of the parasites so the infectious stage is shorter, and you get to the free swimming stage where medication is effective, quicker. While there will be a temperature that will kill these parasites, different strains of the same parasite will have different tolerances for temperature. 89f isn't necessarily going to kill the ich parasite, some strains are known to survive into the 90s, and higher temperature will make epistylis more virulent.
From your photos I would say ich.
89 is to let the ich lay dormant charts wrong because ich kills fast too and says ich doesnt stick out n from the reasearch n videos i seen says it does but anyway im sayin temp is to high for ich to reattach its self but im seeing more on the fish since temps been high so im ruling out ich i assume
None of that is true.
When it's said that ich can't infect fish at high temperature, that's assuming that that the temperature is enough to kill the parasites while free swimming. 89f isn't necessarily enough for that. There are strains that will survive and infect fish into the 90s.
Ich isn't the killer it's sometimes portrayed to be. Fish will usually survive several rounds of infection, and it's only after weeks of repeated infection that it might kill when the number of parasites have increased to overwhelm the fish. If treated properly it rarely kills
When it's said that ich can't infect fish at high temperature, that's assuming that that the temperature is enough to kill the parasites while free swimming. 89f isn't necessarily enough for that. There are strains that will survive and infect fish into the 90s.
Ich isn't the killer it's sometimes portrayed to be. Fish will usually survive several rounds of infection, and it's only after weeks of repeated infection that it might kill when the number of parasites have increased to overwhelm the fish. If treated properly it rarely kills
Last edited:
Okay so ich can survive the temp increase? Okay lets start there im going to lower temp to 85 and do a water change christmas and taxes got me broke this time of year and cant get ich cure so im going to see if my l144s l183 l128 ghost knife fish n corys can handle salt i honestly where going to trade my loaches cause they will eat my eggs im breeding alot of stuff and got no room for them but then they got sick...
Unfortunately the photo isn't clear enough for a definitive diagnosis, which is why Andy posted that chart. Its likely going to be either ich or epistylis. I'd say ich, but you are sat in front of your aquarium and are better placed to determine which.
While a medication to treat one should also treat the other, the temperature you treat at is complete opposite with these 2 infections. Ich needs the temperature raising to shorten the life cycle to a manageable period, otherwise you need to medicate for at least a month at tropical temperature, 3 or 4 months at temperate temperature. Epistylis needs the temperature lowering so the parasites go dormant and your medication can kill them.
If you are saying its ich, then the only way to reliably treat this is temperature and medication. Heat and salt might work, but its not guaranteed. In a similar way that antibiotic resistance is becoming more of a thing, heat and salt resistant ich parasites are becoming more prevalent. But we have to factor in that some of your fish aren't tolerant to medication. The loaches in particular. You could try heat and salt and see how that goes, but be prepared for it not to be effective. You could separate the medication intolerant fish into a hospital tank and treat your display tank with heat and medication. Treat the hospital tank differently, eg heat and salt, or resort to a bare bottom tank and do daily, big water changes to remove any freeswimming parasites and break the lifecycle over a couple of months that way.
Clown loaches are particularly prone to carrying ich. They look like babies in your photo, so are likely to be new additions to your aquarium. If they have been added in the last couple of months I would put money on them infecting your aquarium.
While a medication to treat one should also treat the other, the temperature you treat at is complete opposite with these 2 infections. Ich needs the temperature raising to shorten the life cycle to a manageable period, otherwise you need to medicate for at least a month at tropical temperature, 3 or 4 months at temperate temperature. Epistylis needs the temperature lowering so the parasites go dormant and your medication can kill them.
If you are saying its ich, then the only way to reliably treat this is temperature and medication. Heat and salt might work, but its not guaranteed. In a similar way that antibiotic resistance is becoming more of a thing, heat and salt resistant ich parasites are becoming more prevalent. But we have to factor in that some of your fish aren't tolerant to medication. The loaches in particular. You could try heat and salt and see how that goes, but be prepared for it not to be effective. You could separate the medication intolerant fish into a hospital tank and treat your display tank with heat and medication. Treat the hospital tank differently, eg heat and salt, or resort to a bare bottom tank and do daily, big water changes to remove any freeswimming parasites and break the lifecycle over a couple of months that way.
Clown loaches are particularly prone to carrying ich. They look like babies in your photo, so are likely to be new additions to your aquarium. If they have been added in the last couple of months I would put money on them infecting your aquarium.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
One of the clues to epistylis is the different sizes of the spots. Epistylis is not feeding on the fish but attaching to the fish and feeding on the bacteria ON the fish. This is why you treat epistylis with an antibiotic to kill off the food source and reduce the temp so that the bacteria slows it's growth. Both things combined causes the parasites to die from starvation. With Ich, the parasites are feeding on the fish so they are doing damage to the fish. Heat does not kill Ich, as Aiken stated, it just speeds up the lifecycle. To be really effective tho, once the parasite leaves the fish to multiply, the fish should be removed from the tank to remove any chances of the newly hatched parasites from finding a host. If they don't find a host in 48-72 hours after hatching, they die. Unfortunately now, with these new strains of parasites that look like Ich, they may be able to go longer without a host before dying. This is why Medications are better that heat therapy these days.
I've been reading your identical thread on another forum, where you provided a little more information than you did here.
The reason that elevated temperature appeared to clear things up and then the spots returned is because that's how the lifecycle of the ich parasite works.
You start with an infected stage, which is where the fish is visibly infected with white spots. The parasites are feeding during this stage. Once they are done feeding they leave the fish and drop down in the substrate to reproduce. This is when the infection appears to have cleared up, but the aquarium is still infected. Once the parasites have reproduced the offspring go "freeswimming" looking for a new host fish to infect. It is only during this freeswimming stage that any treatment is effective. If whatever method of treatment isn't present (or is ineffective) during this freeswimming stage the parasites are free to reinfected your fish and you are back at that visibly infected stage. And round we go again.
Water temperature determines how long a complete lifecycle takes. At room temperature, 3 to 4 months. At tropical aquarium temperature, 3 to 4 weeks. At elevated temperature (30c/86f) 5 days to a week.
The additional information you provided the other forum, the fact that your infection has previously cleared up and returned, strongly suggests to me that it is the natural lifespan of the ich parasite you have been observing, and whatever treatment to tried was simply not sufficient to kill the parasites.
The consensus over their is that it's ich too.
The reason that elevated temperature appeared to clear things up and then the spots returned is because that's how the lifecycle of the ich parasite works.
You start with an infected stage, which is where the fish is visibly infected with white spots. The parasites are feeding during this stage. Once they are done feeding they leave the fish and drop down in the substrate to reproduce. This is when the infection appears to have cleared up, but the aquarium is still infected. Once the parasites have reproduced the offspring go "freeswimming" looking for a new host fish to infect. It is only during this freeswimming stage that any treatment is effective. If whatever method of treatment isn't present (or is ineffective) during this freeswimming stage the parasites are free to reinfected your fish and you are back at that visibly infected stage. And round we go again.
Water temperature determines how long a complete lifecycle takes. At room temperature, 3 to 4 months. At tropical aquarium temperature, 3 to 4 weeks. At elevated temperature (30c/86f) 5 days to a week.
The additional information you provided the other forum, the fact that your infection has previously cleared up and returned, strongly suggests to me that it is the natural lifespan of the ich parasite you have been observing, and whatever treatment to tried was simply not sufficient to kill the parasites.
The consensus over their is that it's ich too.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Then raising the temperature was the wrong thing to do.
Follow the directions on post #11. Use Kanaplex if your water pH is above 7.2 or Maracyn 2 or Nitrofuracin if your pH is under 6.8. If you have a pH between 6.8 and 7.2, a combination of Kanaplex and Nitrifuracin is a more powerful antibiotic but only in this range.So i found some sea salt in my cabinet for food could i use that to treat my problem otherwise they will have to wait till friday and my loaches are almost fully covered and its forsure epistylis and my question is if i can how much do i use for my 75gal
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Make sure the salt is non iodized salt. If it is, I would test one or two fish by doing a salt dip vs adding salt to the whole tank. A salt dip would be 1 tablespoon of salt to a gallon of water . Place the fish in the dip for approx 5 minutes unless the fish shows too much stress in the dip.
If you do decide to treat the whole tank, a typical dose is 1 tablespoon per 3 gallons of water but since you have some salt sensitive fish ( plecos, cories, etc), I would do no more than 1 Tablespoon per 6 gallons of water. I also would not do a salt dip on the salt sensitive fish. I would use the antibiotic treatment on them.
Similar threads
