Cichlid Questions

[t57spikes]

I am new to the cichlid side of fish keep. Ive kept many tanks before 35 gallons or smaller. I recently purchased a 55 gallon tank and wanted to have a cichlid tank. Well i thought an african cichlid was just an african cichlid but i believe i am wrong. I know that keeping like fish together will benefit in the long run due to the water quality matching all species. SO how do i know what types of cichlids will go together and what types will not? Are all African Cichlids able to be housed together? Or how do i match them based on their lakes? Anything helps, thnaks!

 

[CoronaBlue]

My suggestion would be to make a trip to your LFS see what they carry. That might give you an idea of what fish you like.

You can mix lakes but it can be tricky. You need to do your homework and research aggressiveness. I have a 125 tank and I have Mbuna's, Haps and Peacocks. I've had to rehome some that were too aggressive, but for the most part tank runs smoothly.

 

[TomK2]

Research is the best advice. I have just done what you propose - taken a tank that has been running for years and converted it to a cichlid tank. I went to the LFS, got advice. I showed the store staff three or four colorful fish I thought my daughter would like. He recommended three species to try, but only two combos. I gave that list to my daughter. She decided on Yellow Labs and Demasoni, both mbuna from Malawi. She knew that the demasoni had to be kept either singly, or in a group of a dozen or more to atempt controlling con-specific agression.

We bought 8 yellow labs and a dozen 1-1.5 inch demasoni. One demasoni died in the bag on the way home, four more died in the next 5 days. Water quality is excellent. One yellow lab died as well, looked in good health.

So now we are at a crossroad. Double down on the demasoni and add more to try and spread out the agression, or leave it alone and see if we end up with only one. If I had it to do over again, I would have skipped the demasoni, but perhaps I am judging to quickly. they are intereting fish to watch.

It helps that I have 100 lbs of texas holey rock, lots of nooks and crannies for fish to hide in. It also helps that I have two fluval 404 canister filters and a push-button water change system, so I can overcrowd the tank without letting nitrates get high.

 

[t57spikes]

Research is the best advice. I have just done what you propose - taken a tank that has been running for years and converted it to a cichlid tank. I went to the LFS, got advice. I showed the store staff three or four colorful fish I thought my daughter would like. He recommended three species to try, but only two combos. I gave that list to my daughter. She decided on Yellow Labs and Demasoni, both mbuna from Malawi. She knew that the demasoni had to be kept either singly, or in a group of a dozen or more to atempt controlling con-specific agression.

We bought 8 yellow labs and a dozen 1-1.5 inch demasoni. One demasoni died in the bag on the way home, four more died in the next 5 days. Water quality is excellent. One yellow lab died as well, looked in good health.

So now we are at a crossroad. Double down on the demasoni and add more to try and spread out the agression, or leave it alone and see if we end up with only one. If I had it to do over again, I would have skipped the demasoni, but perhaps I am judging to quickly. they are intereting fish to watch.

It helps that I have 100 lbs of texas holey rock, lots of nooks and crannies for fish to hide in. It also helps that I have two fluval 404 canister filters and a push-button water change system, so I can overcrowd the tank without letting nitrates get high.

Ive became a little worried now lol. Do you have any clue as to why they died? I have been doing research and i am learning more. I wan to get about 100 pounds of texas holey for the 55. did you silicone them together? thanks for all the advice!

 

[CoronaBlue]

I wouldn't put them together. Best way to curb aggression is to move rocks around when a certain fish gets too territorial. My tank is an all make tank (well almost all male) and I only have 1 male per. I made the mistake of leaving 2 juvenile Bumble bees in too long and the dad killed one. I relocated dad and I'm probably going to relocate the juvenile since that specie is rather aggressive.

 

[t57spikes]

I wouldn't put them together. Best way to curb aggression is to move rocks around when a certain fish gets too territorial. My tank is an all make tank (well almost all male) and I only have 1 male per. I made the mistake of leaving 2 juvenile Bumble bees in too long and the dad killed one. I relocated dad and I'm probably going to relocate the juvenile since that specie is rather aggressive.

So leave them apart and stack them well. Is an all male tank okay or is there a ratio of male to female that helps with aggression? So bumble bees are an aggressive type, so it wouldn't be good to house then with other Africans

 

[CoronaBlue]

African basically encompasses 3 main types (Mbuna, Haps, Peacocks). Some come from same lakes some don't. An all male tank works great especially if you over stock to prevent aggression. Some fish really hate a male of their same type so it's a good idea to only get one male for each type (for example 1 Bumble Bee, 1 Red Zebra, 1 Demansoni). If you want females for breeding then it's probably a good idea to have a 1 to 4 ratio of males to females. Even then your males will spar a lot for breeding territory.

Here is a list if Mbuna aggression

Here are Haps


I don't have the Peacocks screen shot so I'll have to look it up later.

 

[CoronaBlue]

So for example Bumble Bees are in the Pseudotropheus genus. They are ranked as a 2 in aggression. So when looking at fish either stick with more aggressive and over stock or go with more mild if you don't want to over stock.

 

[t57spikes]

So for example Bumble Bees are in the Pseudotropheus genus. They are ranked as a 2 in aggression. So when looking at fish either stick with more aggressive and over stock or go with more mild if you don't want to over stock.

I plan to overstock so I will choose some of the most aggressive and only makes since I don't want to breed.

 

[t57spikes]

African basically encompasses 3 main types (Mbuna, Haps, Peacocks). Some come from same lakes some don't. An all male tank works great especially if you over stock to prevent aggression. Some fish really hate a male of their same type so it's a good idea to only get one male for each type (for example 1 Bumble Bee, 1 Red Zebra, 1 Demansoni). If you want females for breeding then it's probably a good idea to have a 1 to 4 ratio of males to females. Even then your males will spar a lot for breeding territory.

Here is a list if Mbuna aggression View attachment 255236

Here are Haps
View attachment 255237

I don't have the Peacocks screen shot so I'll have to look it up later.

Those are really helpful thank you! So let me get this straight 3 groups basically, what separates the groups or what Is the differences in the 3? I've read not to mix lakes, is it okay to mix lakes? I think I am going with Malawi . Can you mix the three types as long as you over stock with males?

 

[CoronaBlue]

This is a good site that breaks down Ciclids.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/index.php

 

[TomK2]

Ive became a little worried now lol. Do you have any clue as to why they died? I have been doing research and i am learning more. I wan to get about 100 pounds of texas holey for the 55. did you silicone them together? thanks for all the advice!

The yellow lab I have no idea why it died. Looked to be in perfect health even when dead.
The demasoni's seemed to get pale before dying. I wasn't sure if it was because they were so far down the pecking order, or if something else was wrong. It's been 2 days now, no more losses. I wonder if I had 6 males and 6 females, and one dominant male killed off the other males?

I went to the fish store with a giant bin of Holey rock, then pulled out pieces and found ones that fit together well by building then on the floor. I chose wide rocks for the base layer, then rocks that fit on top that also made overhangs, ledges and caves. Then I took a picture of it, bought the rock, and tried to recreate it at home. No silicone, widest most stable rocks are on the bottom, middle and top layers fit in rather stable like a 3d jig saw puzzle. It took some time at the store, but it am happy with them.


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[t57spikes]

The yellow lab I have no idea why it died. Looked to be in perfect health even when dead.
The demasoni's seemed to get pale before dying. I wasn't sure if it was because they were so far down the pecking order, or if something else was wrong. It's been 2 days now, no more losses. I wonder if I had 6 males and 6 females, and one dominant male killed off the other males?

I went to the fish store with a giant bin of Holey rock, then pulled out pieces and found ones that fit together well by building then on the floor. I chose wide rocks for the base layer, then rocks that fit on top that also made overhangs, ledges and caves. Then I took a picture of it, bought the rock, and tried to recreate it at home. No silicone, widest most stable rocks are on the bottom, middle and top layers fit in rather stable like a 3d jig saw puzzle. It took some time at the store, but it am happy with them.


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thanks for the advice im going to try the 3d puzzle on the floor at my LFS. I wish i had a good LFS mines okay at best but its the only thing within 60 miles of me so im stuck with it.

 

[TomK2]

I was pretty lucky to have a big box aquarium store 25 min away with lots of rock and lots of cichlids. When you build your rock, take the advice I was given. Wide, flat stable pieces on the bottom. Then build on that for a stable rock wall that doesn't need the aquarium glass to stay upright. Usually that means more large pieces. The only glass my rock might contact is the bottom. But Texas holey rock is heavy, and not cheap. 100 pounds the way I described it is 90% of the aquarium 48 inch by 12 inch bottom and about half the height. And it's not cheap, either. Per rock price was $4 a pound, but a 100 pound bulk purchase was $200, I think.

The other advantage to the way I did it is that my hundred pounds is no more than three rocks high. If I need to get at something in a tight spot of the tank, I can remove one or two rocks and get there, then put them back because they fit together well.

Good luck!


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[mikem691]

I would put plastic grate on the bottom of the tank 1st then place rocks then put sand in. The grate will disperse the weight and keep the rocks off the glass on the bottom. It will also keep the fish from digging under the rocks and possibly making it un stable. I used this back when I had Africans.
24 in. x 48 in. White Egg Crate Lighting Panel (5-Pack)-LP2448EGG-5 at The Home Depot

 

[t57spikes]

I would put plastic grate on the bottom of the tank 1st then place rocks then put sand in. The grate will disperse the weight and keep the rocks off the glass on the bottom. It will also keep the fish from digging under the rocks and possibly making it un stable. I used this back when I had Africans.
24 in. x 48 in. White Egg Crate Lighting Panel (5-Pack)-LP2448EGG-5 at The Home Depot

That is what i planned on doing was laying the crate then bottom layer of the rocks and then sand so that it will form a stable base (hopefully)

 

[SonicsDC25]

Seeing as how you're a beginner, I wouldn't mix lakes. I recommend:

- Looking up Mbuna, Aulonocara Peacocks and Haplochromines and see which you like the most and pick only one of the three.
- Check which specie in that category you like and see if they are compatible (peaceful or aggressive, carnivore or herbivore).
- Do you want males and females or an all male show tank (1M:4F ratio IMO if both sexes)
- Check what water conditions they need: pH, GH, KH?
- What type of environment do they prefer, tons of rocky aquascape or sandy open area?
- Research how to cycle your tank (I always recommend fishless, it's faster and less work).

With researching all of that, you're preventing future complications and unnecessary death.

 

[Mogurako]

African basically encompasses 3 main types (Mbuna, Haps, Peacocks). Some come from same lakes some don't.

There's also Lake Tanganyika, Lake Victoria, and West African Riverine cichlids.

Each one having different types as well. So saying "African cichlid" encompasses just the three groups of cichlids for Lake Malawi is a bit of an understatement.


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[CoronaBlue]

Wasn't implying that they were, sorry if it was confusing. That was the reason I posted the links.

 

[t57spikes]

Seeing as how you're a beginner, I wouldn't mix lakes. I recommend:

- Looking up Mbuna, Aulonocara Peacocks and Haplochromines and see which you like the most and pick only one of the three.
- Check which specie in that category you like and see if they are compatible (peaceful or aggressive, carnivore or herbivore).
- Do you want males and females or an all male show tank (1M:4F ratio IMO if both sexes)
- Check what water conditions they need: pH, GH, KH?
- What type of environment do they prefer, tons of rocky aquascape or sandy open area?
- Research how to cycle your tank (I always recommend fishless, it's faster and less work).

With researching all of that, you're preventing future complications and unnecessary death.

African Cichlids for Sale: African Cichlid Fish Species - Tanganyika and Malawai
i plan to buy my fish from this website. I have been researching haps and labs and mbuna and peacock and im still confused as to what category they are in. Should i look at their scientific name or their american name? I have chosen lake malawi so i thought i could mix any from that lake but it seems i was wrong. i want to do this right the first time so any help is highly appreciated.