Infamous Cycling question - stumped

[jer74]

Purchased a new 60 gallon aquarium.
-tank was set up with tap water and prime treatment.
-filtration - aqua-clear 110 and aqua clear 70, also a small sponge bubble filter
-with this i used approx 10 gallons of cycled water from a friends aquarium along with his sponge insert which i added to one of my aqua-clear filters
-he also gave me a few decorations from that same cycled tank

at first i was using water testing test strips which i tested the empty tank with for a few days before adding fish (was not aware of fish-less cycling and went on the advice of the sales people at the pet store)

i then added 6 small African cichlids of assorted breeds recommended by the pet store

i continued to test the water with test strips that showed all levels at 0 except the ph that i was intentionally trying to increase - following the advice of the fish store. - important to note that these test strips did not have ammonia testing capabilities.

the pet store sales people told me to return for more fish in a week if all was well and to bring a water sample with me. i did this an purchased 4 small mixed breed cichlids (also now aware that this is not a recommended purchase)

later in the week i noticed one fish appeard to have a sunken stomach parasite desease that i successfully treated cured.

i then completed alot of online reaseach and discovered the numerous mistakes made but am doing my best to carry on.

i have now purchased the api water testing kit.

i have tested daily since and am now about 3 weeks into the entire process since initially tank setup

once i started with the api testing the results were at first approx
PH 8.4
amonia at 0
nitrites 0
nitrates 0

i have continued daily testing until present along with 20% pwc every 2-3 days

currently
ph 8.4
ammonia .25
nitrites 0
nitrates around 30ppm
temp approx 78 deg

not once did i see a nitrite increase at all and the ammonia seems to be pretty consistent around .25.

the water appears clear and a small algae bloom appears to have started as brown algae is beginning to appear on some of my lighter colour decorations

the fish seem to all be healthy (hungry, active, good colours, perky fin movement - no deaths)

the tank is not fully planted but there is a live moss ball along with a small plant from a friends tank that does not look so healthy but possibly growing new leaves

first i want to thank you for reading thru this and analysing the results; secondly my questions

1) does this indicate a completed nitrogen cycle, if not please explain and offer any suggestions along with a possible time frame on what to expect.
2) is it possible i missed the ammonia and nitrite spike in that short of period
3)i want to maintain a long healthy tank for these fish - knowing that i have so many mixes how many more fish should i add and when

 

[garfy]

Firstly I'm not sure your filtration is enough.Personally I don't think you can beat a good cannister filter.Fluval FX-5 is a great filter and would more than cope with your tank.
As for is your tank fully cycled.I don't think so.I would expect to see Nitrites 0 Nitrates below 25 if your filtration is good enough and you keep up with your water changes and Ammonia 0.No amount of Ammonia is good for your fish.
As for stocking I think between 15 and 20 fish is about right for a 60 g tank depending on what fish you have.
Using seeded filter media was a very good idea but the water and decor hold almost no helpful qualities.Your filter is key and you need the bacteria to build up within your filter(s) this is key.
I would recommend continuing with daily 50% water changes (using prime) until your ammonia level is zero.
It would be helpful if you could post pictures of your fish so that they can be identified and better advice can be given as to wether they are compatible or even suitable for your tank.
Great job with the research (late is better than never) I will be following this thread with interest and if I can help I surely will.
Good luck

 

[jer74]

awesome advice

i will do a 50% wc and post pics of the fish in very shortly, just waiting for the camera to charge.

also after a more careful reading i'm noticing my ph is higher then expected but cannot verify the colour on the chart. should i be making attempts to lower this?

why do you think there are nitrates present if there have yet to be any signs of nitrites.

also tap water tested at .25 ammonia - could this be the cause?

also i unfortunatly cannot return the aqua-clear filters so will ahve to make due with them for now

 

[garfy]

I wouldn't mess with your ph a steady ph is much better than trying to adjust it.Fish Don't like changes in PH too much.Im surprised your tap water has any ammonia in it.Are you sure your testing it exactly as your test kit says.Personally I've never had tap water with ammonia in it.Just a thought.Follow the instructions on the bottle very carefully it can make a big difference.

 

[jer74]

thought of that to but i read and re-read the instructions 100 times. 0 is represented by a by a bright yellow color and .25 is slightly green/yellow and the tap water is somewhere in between. but its been consistantly that since day1 in the tank as well - never nitrites and the nitrite spike happend only a day or so ago

 

[jer74]

also as im watching the tank drain im noticing almost a slight yellowish tint to the water color that differes from the light in the emptied portion of the tank.. might just be an optical illusion but strange

 

[garfy]

A nitrite spike indicates a not fully cycled tank or not frequent enough water changes.
My best advice is perform 50% water changes daily until your levels are where you want them.I know this is hard work but its the only answer to your problem.Nobody said fish keeping was easy (but its worth it to see health happy fish)

 

[jer74]

just to be clear i was referring to a nitrate spike not nitrite as u had typed

also fish pics coming momentarily

 

[jer74]

Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - jer74's Album: Jer74's current cichlids. - Picture

as per request here are the current fish. 9 total, there are 3 of the orange/yellow coloured ones, not the yellow lab

apologies for the poor pic quality

 

[jer74]

just an update

did a 50% wc yesterday, plan on doing another tonight after work

ph - high

ammonia - now measuring 1ppm

nitrites - still 0

nitrates - between 20-40 ppm

i guess the cycle either started over or has now officially began. i have yet to detect ammonia that high in the water

i've come to terms with the fact i may lose some if not all fish over the next little bit. hope the process is quick.

stupid question. with the high presence of nitrates is it possible its over powering any potential growth of nitrites which in turn could be causing the ammonia spike? if so how do i fix this

 

[dpeco33]

It is my understanding from my research over the years.
That you start with water, then the fish breathe and waste and ammonia will build..then beneficial bacteria will form to eat the ammonia. By doing this they create nitrates...then beneficial bacteria grow to dissolve the nitrates..and there then comes nitrites..( I believe I have that correct nitrates first then nitrites but could go the other way)
It is my understanding the only way to get rid of the night traits is to continue doing water changes in that is why you do water changes every so often as needed after the cycle has begun in finished I believe this is correct if not I'm sure Hardy someone will change that but I think that's what my understanding is

 

[shellieca]

just an update

did a 50% wc yesterday, plan on doing another tonight after work

ph - high

ammonia - now measuring 1ppm

nitrites - still 0

nitrates - between 20-40 ppm

i guess the cycle either started over or has now officially began. i have yet to detect ammonia that high in the water

i've come to terms with the fact i may lose some if not all fish over the next little bit. hope the process is quick.

stupid question. with the high presence of nitrates is it possible its over powering any potential growth of nitrites which in turn could be causing the ammonia spike? if so how do i fix this

I do not have Cichlids but here was my experience with a fish in cycle, water tested daily if my ammonia or nitrites were .5 or higher I did a 50%+ water change which averaged about every 3 days. I saw nitrItes once in my 46g about 5 wks into it & the cycle was completed around 6 wks. My 10g tank got nitrItes about week 6 & finished cycling in 8 wks. You can have nitrAtes the entire time, I did, you want to watch for the nitrItes & the zeroing out of the ammonia. Once your BB is processing the ammonia the .25 ammonia from your tap water should process out within 24hrs. If you are using a good water conditioner such as Prime then your fish should be fine. Your 1 ppm ammonia could be from the added fish, I don't remember when everyone was added and as your BB builds it should process that if you have the right amount of filtration. Hope this all makes sense and if I am mistaken on anything, someone will correct me.

 

[garfy]

Your Nitrates aren't excessively high.If they were over 60 I'd be worried.Keep up with the water changes and watch them drop.

 

[jer74]

will do.. i've also now purchased the fluval fx5 - expensive filter! but am returning the aquaclear 70 but will continue to use the aquaclear 110 in conjunction

 

[garfy]

will do.. i've also now purchased the fluval fx5 - expensive filter! but am returning the aquaclear 70 but will continue to use the aquaclear 110 in conjunction

Great plan the FX-5 is an awesome filter your gonna love it and your tank will love it too.

 

[jer74]

another update
ammonia has appeard to drop to 0 since this morning, nitrites still 0 and nitrates down to 5ppm..

is it possible and that coincidental that the tank has cycled during all this discussion? still only been 3 + weeks

 

[shellieca]

another update
ammonia has appeard to drop to 0 since this morning, nitrites still 0 and nitrates down to 5ppm..

is it possible and that coincidental that the tank has cycled during all this discussion? still only been 3 + weeks

Stranger things have happened. I'd keep testing the water for a few days to make sure.

 

[garfy]

Stranger things have happened. I'd keep testing the water for a few days to make sure.

+1 if it stays like that for a few days then your good to go.