Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Freshwater > Cichlid Discussion
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 03-07-2005, 02:50 AM   #1
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Jacksonville Florida USA
Posts: 125
Should I buy a Parrot Fish?

At my LFS today I spotted a gorgeous little school of "1 Freshwater Parrots. They were called Candy Parrots and despite their odd appearence I was drooling over them. The thing that got to me was that they were very obviously watching me and the Mrs, she absaloutley adores them especially since they are Candy Pink. I decided I would look into them and have found out they are a man made fish which has sparked a lot of contraversy. Does anyone have any opinions about these fish, or know if they are suitable for a community tank?

Thanks in advance!
__________________

__________________
redwhiptailplec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 03:21 AM   #2
RoK
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 2,490
Send a message via AIM to RoK Send a message via MSN to RoK
They are semi-aggressive, most likely painted (injected with color) and should only go with other similar size & temperament cichlids.
__________________

__________________
Current fish (includes all 3 running tanks): Polypterids, severums (of which I raised from eggs), gouramis, plecos (gold spot ones & a gurupa), loaches (zebras, yoyos, & a kubotai), macculocchi spotted silver dollars, an African butterfly fish, & Ctenopomas (a leopard & an ansorgii)
RoK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 03:27 AM   #3
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
ChileRelleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Alabama,USA
Posts: 1,031
Yes, the controversy is very real over Hybrids and the dangers they represent

Why buy a hybrid freak with a deformed spine and mouth. Did you know that they can't even close their mouth its so deformed?
You play to the greed of unscrupulous breeders by buying such fish.
And by encouraging hybridization you increase the likelyhood of more damage being done to pure genetic pools that are already suffering from intentional and unintentional pollution resulting in many problems.

There are literally hundreds of beautiful species of FW fish to be chosen from, hybridization of different species with one another has already made it almost impossible to tell "Pureblood" from "Mudblood" in more than a few highly desireable species.
What if there if there were no Lions or Tigers to show your children, becuase people thought Ligers or Tigons were prettier and started crossbreeding till it reached the point that no one could tell the difference?
What a shame indeed 8O
This is happening to certain fish species already and more and more are being tinkered with...
Just to make a buck$$$$

Alot of folks, just like you (your smarter though, your asking questions!?)
think they are just sooo cute. And some think their even cuter when they can buy them in any color of the rainbow, blue, purple, yellow, green and so on....
How do they get soooo many colors?
Let me tell you how, they dip them in acid to remove their protective slimecoat, then dip'em in dye to color them and finally dip'em in a strong irratant to make the fish re-grow its slime coat. Many many many fish die almost immediately, the rest live shortened lifespans and slowly lose the color while living a miserable life.

So buy buying these hybrids you unintentionally encourage the dyeing and painting of fish.

Please, I implore you and your wife not buy these hybrids
__________________
I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.
Douglas MacArthur

ChileRelleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 03:33 AM   #4
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toano, Virginia!
Posts: 716
Thats pretty well put, Chile. That makes me wonder if it causes a problem by selling fry from my community tank in which I have no idea the bloodlines of the parents or even which two fish are the parents. Of course, I dont know if its as big an issue with guppies or mollies or any of these fish, but I havent heard of many crazy hybrid specimens of these fish yet. I just dont want to be the person that starts it!
__________________
I almost dated a psychic.....


She left me before we met.
youronlysin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 03:50 AM   #5
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
ChileRelleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Alabama,USA
Posts: 1,031
Quote:
That makes me wonder if it causes a problem by selling fry from my community tank in which I have no idea the bloodlines of the parents or even which two fish are the parents. Of course, I dont know if its as big an issue with guppies or mollies or any of these fish, but I havent heard of many crazy hybrid specimens of these fish yet. I just dont want to be the person that starts it!
Yes, the unintentional buying, selling or trading of possibly hybrid "Mixed" fish is very real.
Way too many seemingly responsible LFS operators and even Breeders 8O have given up on some African Cichlids and simply dump'em into a tank labeled "Mixed Africans". This is going to rapidly happen with Tetras, Barbs and Rainbows for example as they are starting to crossbreed to "Create" a better looking, more desireable...... Screw it! Lets be honest their trying to make more money and they don't give a hoot whether they breed whole species into a mishmash for $$$$

Alot of people used to be up in arms at this and other sites about dyed and painted fish.... This is a much more dire threat, we're talking species here
__________________
I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.
Douglas MacArthur

ChileRelleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 05:39 AM   #6
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: N. CA
Posts: 738
Send a message via MSN to dr_girlfriend
I would never buy a fish that has been dyed. And even if you don't care about the inhumane treatment of these animals, the color will fade over time. So whats the point? As far as hybrids, I'm not so gungho against them as some people. I personally own a flowerhorn, which is a hybrid also. I also breed and keep goldfish, which are not "natural" either, but nobody seems to have a problem with them. Probably because these fish were created hundreds of years ago, and they've become accepted. I also keep a betta, which has also been manipulated to create the long flowing fins and bright colors. These fish are also acceptable to the general aquatic hobby.
Dogs and cats and birds are breed the same way, yet most people have no problem with this. So if you like the fish get it. Wether you buy it or not, some animal somewhere is going to be selectivley bred to make certain attributes more appealing to the human eye.
And as far as buying any hybridized animal, look for good breeding. A well bred specimen should be able to function normally and have the asthetics of whatever the specific animal you are looking at is suppose to have. If an animal looks deformed or can't close its mouth or whatever that specimen should have been culled by the breeder.
__________________
Fish are friends, not food

We weep for the bird's cry, but not for the blood of a fish. Blessed are those who have voice.

Pinky: "What are those Brain?" (pointing to a group of people protesting)
Brain: "People without jobs Pinky."

N. California aquarium maintenance, scuba certification, and boat services.

Need computer services in N. California? Click here!
dr_girlfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 09:08 AM   #7
AA Team Emeritus
 
Jchillin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New York, NY (The Big Apple)
Posts: 14,951
Most of the LFS that carry them near me advertise them as "Painted Parrots". I give them credit for at least being honest. One of them has 6 in a tank, each a different color, including purple. Each has the signature deformaty (lumps and open mouth).

I agree that buying these fish only creates a demand for breeders to continue to supply them. If no one purchased them, the breeders would probably stop.
__________________
_________________________________
Jchillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 09:15 AM   #8
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
severum mama's Avatar


 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: GA
Posts: 10,297
I'm not even going to get into the hybrid debate, quite frankly I'm tired of hearing about it. My parrots were my first cichlids and yes I bought them because they looked cute. Mine have been very healthy, they eat and swim with no problems, and they survived all my newbie mistakes. They are not all dyed, although sadly many are. The pink ones you were looking at are definitely dyed. Their real color is some shade of yellow to orange. If you can find grayish, striped juveniles they are not dyed and will develop the orange color as they age. They are not schooling fish, but they do prefer the company of other parrots (try to keep them in even numbers). They are cichlids and will eat anything that can fit in their mouths, so they are not suitable for a community tank. They can be kept with barbs, larger tetras, plecos, cories (sometimes), etc. Aside from being hybrids, they are social and inquisitive fish with tons of personality. Please don't buy dyed fish, they will lose their color rather quickly and have a shortened lifespan because of it. BTW 99% of male parrots are sterile so this is not a hybrid that is going to be much of a danger to the hobby. Parrots grow up to 8-9 inches so they need at least 15 gallons per parrot, my 2 live in a 35 gallon (3 foot) tank and I wouldn't keep them in anything smaller. If you want to see their normal color here is a pic of mine:

If you have any other questions feel free to PM me if you want. HTH
severum mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 11:54 AM   #9
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
ChileRelleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Alabama,USA
Posts: 1,031
Quote:
I also breed and keep goldfish, which are not "natural" either, but nobody seems to have a problem with them. Probably because these fish were created hundreds of years ago, and they've become accepted. I also keep a betta, which has also been manipulated to create the long flowing fins and bright colors. These fish are also acceptable to the general aquatic hobby.
Dogs and cats and birds are breed the same way, yet most people have no problem with this. So if you like the fish get it. Whether you buy it or not, some animal somewhere is going to be selectivley bred to make certain attributes more appealing to the human eye.
There are huge differences between "Selective" or Line Breeding as it is called for selected traits and "Hybridization".
One is the mixing of species. The other is the selected breeding of certain individuals within a species to obtain/maintain a desirable trait.
The unscrupulous practice of either can cause great harm to the animals/fish being bred.
Through repeated in-breeding to maintain a line or develop a trait, be it long fins, no dorsal, sloped hindquarters or black spots, often many recessive genes in a "Pureblood" arise, physical deformities and/or disposition to certain diseases are results.

Goldfish (A very generalized term) and Koi have been bred for literally thousands of years, and yes, there is/has some/been hybridization, and there most definitely is highly selective breeding.
Much harm has been done to some of the more fancy varieties, much intentional breeding of deformities purely because some thought it looked good or got attention.... $$$$

Bettas, there are two species, Betta splendens and Betta imbellis, I don't know whether or not any,or how much, hybridization occurred between these two initially. But most strains are/have been, selectively bred. Show quality Bettas are painstakingly bred and have bloodlines even, while the commercially mass bred Veiltails are so overbred, inbred and mis-bred that physical harm has been and is being caused to these fish.

I will give credit where credit is due, many types of Koi and Golfish are extremely valuable and have bloodlines as well documented and pure as any Kentucky Thoroughbred Racehorse.
Proper and carefully conducted selective breeding over time can and has resulted in new "True Breeds" of Fish, dogs, cats, horses and domestic livestock of all types.

But enough! I'll get to the point...

Selective breeding and Hybridization are not the same.

There is Good and Bad selective breeding.
There is Intentional and Unintentional hybrid breeding.

Selective breeding can hurt a species or strain of that species.
Hybrid breeding can hurt the offspring and cause a species to disappear, forever..... Forever!

Unfortunately, any distribution of hybrid fry/fish is dangerous due to the lack of control and we are already slowly losing certain species.
__________________
I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.
Douglas MacArthur

ChileRelleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 02:10 PM   #10
God of primitive fishes
 
Toirtis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 8,163
Send a message via MSN to Toirtis Send a message via Yahoo to Toirtis
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChileRelleno
Bettas, there are two species, Betta splendens and Betta imbellis,
More like 60 species....B. smaragdina, B. bellica, B. Picta, B. tussyae, B. ocellata, and B. taeniata immediately come to mind, amongst others.

Quote:
But enough! I'll get to the point...

Selective breeding and Hybridization are not the same.

There is Good and Bad selective breeding.
There is Intentional and Unintentional hybrid breeding.

Selective breeding can hurt a species or strain of that species.
Hybrid breeding can hurt the offspring and cause a species to disappear, forever..... Forever!

Unfortunately, any distribution of hybrid fry/fish is dangerous due to the lack of control and we are already slowly losing certain species.
I concur completely.
__________________
G. A. Christian Bilou, Herpetologist
Founder/Director, Reptile Rescue Alberta
Past-President, Calgary Aquarium Society
www.calgaryaquariumsociety.com
Toirtis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 02:14 PM   #11
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Jacksonville Florida USA
Posts: 125
Actually the Candy Parrots are not dyed I have discovered, apparently they are an even more hybridised species being the offspring of a female Parrot and a Convict. At least that is what my LFS told me, they are generally a pretty reliable store and by far the best in my area....although they do carry painted glassfish, which lowered my estimation of them significantly.

I have looked around on several sites dedicated to Parrots and they seem to all say that a single Parrot makes a good community fish.

I must admit that I am struggling with the ethics of the issue, but it does not seem that a Parrot actually suffers...Hmmm.

I think I will leave it for the moment. Thanks for the advise everyone!
__________________
redwhiptailplec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 02:18 PM   #12
God of primitive fishes
 
Toirtis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 8,163
Send a message via MSN to Toirtis Send a message via Yahoo to Toirtis
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwhiptailplec
Actually the Candy Parrots are not dyed I have discovered, apparently they are an even more hybridised species being the offspring of a female Parrot and a Convict. At least that is what my LFS told me,
Your LFS is sadly misinformed....they are in fact a dyed fish.
__________________
G. A. Christian Bilou, Herpetologist
Founder/Director, Reptile Rescue Alberta
Past-President, Calgary Aquarium Society
www.calgaryaquariumsociety.com
Toirtis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 02:26 PM   #13
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Fishyfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 11,964
This started off as someone thinking about buying a Parrot because his wife thought it was cute and has turned into a rant session. I personally own 7 parrots, 4 babies and 3 Adults. In no way, shape, or form do I consider my beloved parrots to be a "hybrid freak with a deformed spine and mouth". They are loving fish that are full of personality. They have more personality than any of the other fish in my tanks. My red one will now let me pet her. It's so cute. She'll come to the top of the tank and when I put my hand in the tank she will turn on her side and hold there until after I rub her side. Then I give her a little treat.

The treatment that some people receive because they own or want to purchase a parrot has gotten to the point where I am reluctant to ask questions for fear of comments like what was made above. Not all parrots are dyed. The ones that are not orange/red or yellow are. In fact, I have only seen 1 parrot that was dyed. The lfs (plural) around here all sell parrots and noone carries the dyed ones except one. And I no longer purchase from that store because they carry them. The other stores will not even special order them. I am not ashamed that I own a parrot. Even after I learned that they were hybrids, I still continued to purchase 4 more. Mine have never had any health problems and I have had them for over a year. They are happy, healthy, and full of personality. They virtually can not breed with any other fish so it's not like you will have 50% parrot 50% Johanni. The breeding of other fish has nothing to do with the Parrots.
__________________
Vote for Aquarium Advice

29 Gallon Lake Malawi Fry
55 Gallon Community
150 Gallon Lake Malawi Cichlid
Fishyfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 02:26 PM   #14
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Jacksonville Florida USA
Posts: 125
Well first off I abhor the practice of dyeing fish and will never knowing buy one. As to hybrids, I am slightly less emphatic but after some contemplation inclined to avoid them, if with some regret.

My LFS claims that the pink "Candy" Parrots are not dyed, but are a hybrid of a Parrot and a Convict.

The thing that makes me regret not purchasing a Parrot is the stories of how intelligent these fish are...Still maybe I will just wait until I have the room to accomodate that Oscar I have been hankering after....

Thanks for all your advice everyone!
__________________
redwhiptailplec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 02:27 PM   #15
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
TomK2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Glen Ellyn, IL
Posts: 2,085
Decide where you stand on the hybrid issue, and you can be disagreed with, but no one will disrespect you. But DON'T, please don't, pretty please don't! buy any dyed fish. No one can argue that it is good. Here's a link:
http://www.deathbydyeing.org/
__________________
TomK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 02:38 PM   #16
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
severum mama's Avatar


 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: GA
Posts: 10,297
Just want to clarify... I don't necessarily think I would buy hybrid fish again just because there are so many beautiful species that I would rather try keeping. However, mine were my 1st cichlids (purchased on impulse of course), bought long before I even knew about this debate. Mine have a good home with me and I don't regret having them.

Now for the real confusion... the "candy" parrots can also be called jellybean parrots, bubble gum parrots, and loads of other silly names. If they are brightly colored like candy, or have fading spots of this fake looking color, they are dyed. However, there ARE some that are a cross between a regular parrot and a pink convict. These are also called jellybeans or candy parrots by most LFSs. They have a slightly different, less "humped" body shape, and most I think can close their mouths. Real jellybeans are very pale pink in color and they are NOT dyed. I have never seen any around here, only in pictures. Anyhoo, they are different from regular blood parrots. And FF- the females can and will breed with other fish, it is the males that are sterile. I mean, they won't breed with your Africans, but if you kept SAs it would be possible. redwhiptailplec- my parrots will hand feed, it's really cute.
severum mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 02:43 PM   #17
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Fishyfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 11,964
I read on a website that the Parrots were sterile and could not breed. Now that I think about it, that has me confused. HAHA. Ok, I get what you're saying. Thank you for clarifying that for me Severum. I've got nothing to worry about (breeding wise).
__________________
Vote for Aquarium Advice

29 Gallon Lake Malawi Fry
55 Gallon Community
150 Gallon Lake Malawi Cichlid
Fishyfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 03:02 PM   #18
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Jacksonville Florida USA
Posts: 125
That is what these Candy Parrots are like severum mama, they are a pale pastel pink. I have heard that you can actually teach a Parrot fish to fetch a ball...Hmmm.

Actually they now breed most Parrots from Parrots. The males are almost all infertile, but apparently they can be given a hormone of some sort, which makes them fertile...
__________________
redwhiptailplec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 03:21 PM   #19
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Fishyfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 11,964
The suprises that parrots will give you never ends. Ours will eat out of our hand, the red one lets me rub her side, mine never bite my hand when I put it in the water, but they will rub against it. They are just so much fun.
__________________
Vote for Aquarium Advice

29 Gallon Lake Malawi Fry
55 Gallon Community
150 Gallon Lake Malawi Cichlid
Fishyfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2005, 08:16 PM   #20
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
severum mama's Avatar


 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: GA
Posts: 10,297
LOL FF! My bigger parrot ALWAYS tries to bite me when I put my hand in the tank! My smaller one is a lot more shy though.

redwhiptailplec, can you get a pic of their candy parrots? Or at least tell me what color their eyes are? Can they close their mouths? Maybe I could tell if it is a jellybean like I'm thinking of. If it is, it will not get as large as a normal parrot, only 5-6 inches. In the meantime I will try to dig up a pic of a real jellybean, I am really interested to find out if that is what you saw.

BTW I've never heard of giving the parrots hormones to make them breed. I know that some males can breed normally but it is very rare, about 1%. Jellybeans, on the other hand, can breed normally I believe.
__________________

severum mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
parrot, parrot fish

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
my parrot fish lmul Cichlid Discussion 33 04-28-2009 08:37 PM
Parrot fish degbowl Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 1 08-27-2006 10:55 PM
Parrot (Fish) Steven A Cichlid Discussion 3 08-14-2005 04:56 PM
Parrot fish Fishyfanatic Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 3 07-17-2005 04:40 AM
Parrot fish compatibility lyquidphyre Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 19 01-18-2004 12:07 PM







» Photo Contest Winners







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×