Ok. Tank is about one month old. I exchanged a Bio WHeel with the LFS in order to proliferate my tank with good bacteria as they said. Added a few fish, then watched as the Amonia and nitrite levels dropped after maybe one week. The Nitrates stayed at 0. All tested ok two days ago 0,0,0. Then today, tested as .25ppm amonia. What gives? The LFS recommended against a water change in order to facilitate the cycle. However, they also said the cycle should be complete by now. Any suggestions now. Should I have used Bio Spira, or should I use that now?
Amonia is on the rise. What gives?
- Thread starter MyMonkey
- Start date
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LittlePuff
Aquarium Advice Freak
I'd try to get ahold of the Biro-Spira.
lando
Aquarium Advice Addict
Sorry, don't waste your money on this stuff. Sounds like your tank was not completely cycled. Give it more time. If you have livestock in the tank either return them or control the NH3 with water changes. This will prolong the cycle but be less stressful on any livestock. This is a pretty common problem with new tanks. Don't sweat it, just slow down a bit and wait it out.
This was the problem. Too much new bioload for the biological filteration to handle. What size tank and what is a "few" fish?
Sorry, I should have included this info. It is a 58 Gallon tank. Upon the recommendation of the LFS, I added a Pair of Amphiprion ocellaris (false percs) and One Chrysiptera parasema. (Yellowtail Damsel) This was in order to feed the flourishing bacteria provided by their Bio Wheel swap out program. I thought it worked as the tank had been running for about 3 weeks prior to that and amonia was at .25 the entire time. About 7 days after adding the wheel and fish, amonia dropped to 0. Then two days later, .25 again. I just don't want the fish to be stressed. I will do a water change and if it does not subside, I will take them back. Thanks.
mjvincent
Aquarium Advice Freak
I don't understand the bio-wheel swap program... The biowheel itself is a bio-filter, and if you used it from one of their tanks in order to "propogate" your own tank and then removed it you would NORMALLY have a ammonia spike.
What kind of circulation are you using? What kind of filtration and do you have LR and if so how much?
I wouldn't buy the biro-spira. I would watch the ammonia and use prime or something to help the fish survive this ammonia spike though if the ammonia gets higher.
What kind of circulation are you using? What kind of filtration and do you have LR and if so how much?
I wouldn't buy the biro-spira. I would watch the ammonia and use prime or something to help the fish survive this ammonia spike though if the ammonia gets higher.
I will administer prime immediately. I have around 50 pounds of LR and Base rock. My circulation/filtration is provided by one Maxi Jet 900, the Emperor 400 with Phosphoguard and carbon, and an AquaC Remora for skimming (just breaking that in) The bio wheel swap out program works like this: The LFS keeps a vat full of these bio wheels running on emp 400's with an amonia drip in order to proliferate them with Denitrifiying bacteria. I went in to buy the Bio SPira and the lfs guy said that trading one of their wheels for my own wheel will do the same thing cheaper. Allegedly, the wheel they gave me was to propagate my tank with the good bacteria quickly. I had to add fish in order to not starve the bacteria. (from what they recommended) It seemed to have worked as my Amonia went to zero about 7 days after the wheel swap. However, 2 days after that, the amonia is back. No changes after the wheel swap.
Ok. Here's an update. This morning I awoke to a .50 Amonia reading. 8O Did a 20% water change and brought it back to .25ish. 
Went to the same LFS today, Sunday. I told them of my odd amonia spike. He guessed the cause was a Chemical indroduced to the system. Such as: Antibacterial Soap, Antibacterial Air Freshener etc... All of which I use by the way. Dadgumit. I have never heard of that. ANyway, bought some Bio-Spira and he gave me some Poly Fill to filter out the antibacterial stuff. Hope this works. :? Thanks for all the input by the way.
Went to the same LFS today, Sunday. I told them of my odd amonia spike. He guessed the cause was a Chemical indroduced to the system. Such as: Antibacterial Soap, Antibacterial Air Freshener etc... All of which I use by the way. Dadgumit. I have never heard of that. ANyway, bought some Bio-Spira and he gave me some Poly Fill to filter out the antibacterial stuff. Hope this works. :? Thanks for all the input by the way.mjvincent
Aquarium Advice Freak
For a 58 gallon tank you need at least 580 gph. With your ph you have 230 and your emperor probably put out around 100 gph. I would get at least another maxijet (1200) for circulation.
I doubt very seriously that your ammonia spike was due to a chemical introduction (unless you were cleaning seriously around or in your tank). I have used windex to clean my tank (sprayed onto a cloth and then wiping glass). 7 Days is very quick for a cycle, and you did cycle. My guess would be that a change occurred disrupting your bio load (added fish? changing biowheels back to lfs? change in feeding habits?).
I haven't heard of a SURE thing quick cycle, it takes time to build up the beneficial bacteria to sufficient numbers in order to maintain a healthy tank.
I doubt very seriously that your ammonia spike was due to a chemical introduction (unless you were cleaning seriously around or in your tank). I have used windex to clean my tank (sprayed onto a cloth and then wiping glass). 7 Days is very quick for a cycle, and you did cycle. My guess would be that a change occurred disrupting your bio load (added fish? changing biowheels back to lfs? change in feeding habits?).
I haven't heard of a SURE thing quick cycle, it takes time to build up the beneficial bacteria to sufficient numbers in order to maintain a healthy tank.
seaham358
Aquarium Advice Addict
I understand the LFS thinking with the biowheel swap and it is a good idea if done properly. Adding 3 fish to a tank that is not cycled is a Bad idea. If your not going to take the fish back while the tank cycles then keep up on the water changes and test daily for amm. It will take longer to cycle like this but who cares as long as you keep levels low for the fish to stay alive. Is it the best way, no but will work.
As far as the antibacterial soap ect. I think that LFS is smoking some good stuff and we need to find out what it is... the tank was not cycled properly and he gave you bad advice now instead of him steping up and saying "hey I screwed up selling you 3 fish for a new tank" he turns it around to make you the fall guy. And then sells you more things that you don't need.
Keep testing water daily
Keep up on WC
Stop using additives (quick fix) to the tank that you don't need. I hope they help?
Just ride it out at this point and all will be well if you stay on top of it.
If you get a lagre spike you may want to take the fish out and add a shrimp to finish the cycle.
As far as the antibacterial soap ect. I think that LFS is smoking some good stuff and we need to find out what it is... the tank was not cycled properly and he gave you bad advice now instead of him steping up and saying "hey I screwed up selling you 3 fish for a new tank" he turns it around to make you the fall guy. And then sells you more things that you don't need.
Keep testing water daily
Keep up on WC
Stop using additives (quick fix) to the tank that you don't need. I hope they help?
Just ride it out at this point and all will be well if you stay on top of it.
If you get a lagre spike you may want to take the fish out and add a shrimp to finish the cycle.
Thanks for the reply Mj. 580 gph? Does the Protien skimmer count in that respect when looking at gph of circulation? I was under the impression that the Emeror was 400 GPH and the SKimmer is around 100 GPH. Not positive though. The guy at the LFS seemed to think it was antibacterial soap that caused the problem. Yes, the tank cycled. It had allready been running for about a month. I didn't return the bio wheels by the way. Nor did I add fish. Just plain not sure what happened. Well, wish me luck in this new Bio Spira endeavor. Thanks again.
seaham358
Aquarium Advice Addict
You say your tank was running a month, that does not mean it was cycled a .25 amm level is hardly a cycle. If you did not add anything to get the cycle going then IMO you never had a cycle. Most add cocktail shrimp to get a cycle going, some use damsels. And from what your saying now with the amm levels going up it is proof that you never had a true cycle.
You say "Nor did I add fish"??????? you posted you added 3 fish right? Thats when you had the amm start to raise?
you have 3 fish in a new tank added all at the same time right? This is the reason for the spike not your soap.. The LFS is just trying to cover his bad advice..
keep us posted on the bio spira...
You say "Nor did I add fish"??????? you posted you added 3 fish right? Thats when you had the amm start to raise?
you have 3 fish in a new tank added all at the same time right? This is the reason for the spike not your soap.. The LFS is just trying to cover his bad advice..
keep us posted on the bio spira...
I did add fish. What I meant by that statement was that I did not add fish after the initial addition and swap out. I think the bio wheel thing just did not work well. However, it did drop the amonia levels in 7 days they went back to 0. :? BTW I did have a cycle at least going, I thought. I used the die off from the LR that had stagnated when the previous owner let it sit there for about a week. The amonia climbed to just above .5 at the highest. I likely did not get enough of a cycle going. Darnet. 
mjvincent
Aquarium Advice Freak
IMHO skimmers provide little water circulation. The emperor probably does provide more than 100 gph, but I wouldn't believe that it provided 400 gph of circulation when the filters get clogged even a little (and the 400gph may be the rating without the filter pads), emperors are good filters by the way. If you bought at least another MJ you would have a good amount of circulation in your tank that would provide good turbulence later. But it's not something you have to run out and buy later on... but it would help in the long run.
I think the LFS is mistaken regarding external chemicals added to the tank. I really believe that your cycle, while completed wasn't sufficient enough for the bioload that was for the fish. Typically a tank takes about a month (for your size of tank) to cycle with the number of your fish. I used to cycle tanks (55 gallon) with about 5-6 damsels and it took about a month. The biro spira may help, but imo you could hold off on buying it and ride it out...
I think the LFS is mistaken regarding external chemicals added to the tank. I really believe that your cycle, while completed wasn't sufficient enough for the bioload that was for the fish. Typically a tank takes about a month (for your size of tank) to cycle with the number of your fish. I used to cycle tanks (55 gallon) with about 5-6 damsels and it took about a month. The biro spira may help, but imo you could hold off on buying it and ride it out...
Thanks again MJ. I have posted this same scenario on another forum and got the same reply: That the LFS is off about the introduction of an antibacterial agent. I agree that the cycle did not complete. Ugh.. Sorry fishes. However, I allready added the Bio Spira. I was freaked out by the amonia and added it yesterday. Thus far it seems to have at least leveled off at .25 or jsut below that.
How much are you feeding the fish? If I were you I'd drop feedings down to once every 3 days until after the ammo spike clears (maybe 4) and feed lightly when you do feed. The ammo dropped because of the biowheel that helped the tank cycle but the fish continued to outproduce it's capacity to process and the ammo started to rise. If you drop down your feedings the tank should catch up eventually. Keep the ammo in check with water changes.
Good luck!
Good luck!
I suppose then that I feed too much. Darnet again. I will cut back to once every 3 days. So, the little clowns will be ok right? The damsel seems to pick stuff off the rocks, but the clowns don't do that. Thanks again.
WOHOO!! The lighter feeding schedule has brought the AMonia back down to near 0. Thanks everyone for the info. Now, I suppose I need to wait a while before changing anything. What about skimming. THe bio spira said not to skim for 48 hours. Should be ok now though. Any thoughts?
seaham358
Aquarium Advice Addict
IMO, skim away...
I started skimming today. (I love this new AquaC Remora) BTW I took some water to the same LFS today. Had them test it and I picked up some fresh and sw. The readings came out as: Amonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0. and SG was 1.026. All inline with my test kit other than SG. My Coralife hydrometer tests at 1.022. They were using a swing arm hydrometer as well. I think I may take some water to another LFS just to be sure before I add either SW or FW. At this point, I am impressed with the Bio SPira. It seems to have helped rid my tank of the amonia. Now I just need a refractometer. Thanks again.
