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Old 06-01-2005, 12:22 PM   #31
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QT is definitely not out of the question to some extent... I'm just not sure how I can QT everything right now.

I also think I'll have no support from the LFS.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll do what I can and try to deal with the problem.

- Aaron
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Imperator, D. Saddle Butterfly, 2 Percula Clowns, Cleaner Shrimp and an army of Hermits that never sleep
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Old 06-01-2005, 12:44 PM   #32
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Here's a thought...

If I could swing two 20 gallon QT tanks with sponge filters, would that be adequate for splitting up this collection of fish and pulling them all from the main tank? Say the Angel and the Scopas in one and the Butterfly and the Clowns in the other?

I could maybe seed the two 20's with 10 gallons of water each each from the main tank for starters (and just put 20 gallons of new water in the main like I do for my water changes anyway).

I'd leave the hermits, LR and shrimp in the main tank.

I'm already doing a slow bio-ball removal from the main tank anyway... so would it help to move a few of those bio-balls over to the QT tanks in some manner for seeding or is a 50/50 mix on new water and existing water ok for that (it'd be like a 50% water change initially)?

Also, if the main tank of this size just had rock and these inverts.... would the main tank remain stable? If I gave it six or eight weeks would the ich go through its cycle? What other changes would I be free to address during this period of no fish in the main tank? Possibly take this chance to swap the CC substrate that has been here for years with something else?

Would it be safe to work on adding some new inverts, mushrooms, etc., in this time since I suspect I could get my nitrates down even faster with no bio-load... or would my bacteria be dying off with the lack of a bio-load?

Just another thing to ponder as I try to turn this hassle into some kind of benefit in the long term...

- Aaron
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Old 06-01-2005, 12:48 PM   #33
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Oh, and I meant to mention in the prior post... if I did two two 20 gallon QT's (more for cost and for the ability to keep the fish separated in a manageable grouping vs. tank size) - what is the best treatement to use in the QTs?

Hyposalinity AND cupramine? Are there brands I am likely to find at my LFS you could suggest?

- Aaron
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Imperator, D. Saddle Butterfly, 2 Percula Clowns, Cleaner Shrimp and an army of Hermits that never sleep
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Old 06-01-2005, 01:35 PM   #34
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Or you could do what I did a while back. Below is a pick of my 40 gallon qt tank when I had to treat 11 fish. With the use of an overflow, return pump and your basic 40 gallon garbage can I was able to almost double the water volume. The was a huge help in keeping good water quality.
HTH

Both hypo and cupramine are great treatment, but definately NOT at the same time. Way too much for the fish.
I prefer hypo, but a refractometer is needed to do it right.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg qt3.jpg (65.4 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg qt2_233.jpg (17.3 KB, 147 views)
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Old 06-01-2005, 05:28 PM   #35
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I hate this.

Ich up the wazoo last night. Plenty this morning. As of this evening, virtually none if any and the other fish remain clean.

I imagine it's going to return?

- Aaron
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Old 06-01-2005, 09:44 PM   #36
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Ok. I take that back - he's still covered. The lighting got me (I think).

Whatever the case, I went to my only three pet stores in town (only one of which has any marine specialization) and they all looked at me funny when I asked for Cupramine. Not a single place had heard of it, nor did they stock it.

All I could find were one or maybe two Ich treatment that were chelated copper and one of the formaline medicines.

So, QT building or no, I've got nothing to treat with yet. I guess I have to order online? If so, it'll be next week before I've got it depending on my shipping options.

How would you deal with this dilemma?

- Aaron

P.S. I'd still like feedback on the idea of two 20 gallons to separate the fish into compatible groups (size mostly). I'm preferring tanks to opaque containers for the moment because it seems I'd be able to observe their condition and ich better than overhead. Thoughts?
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Imperator, D. Saddle Butterfly, 2 Percula Clowns, Cleaner Shrimp and an army of Hermits that never sleep
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Old 06-01-2005, 10:12 PM   #37
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I know petsolutions.com has it, i think, if you order by thursday early enough it may come by saturday, i live in NY, and i beleive they are in Ohio, i ordered from then once and got it in two days. If you put this in the suggestions, or phone order it, they can probably send it out first thing tommorow.

I agree with using tanks to containers for better observation. I guess two 20's would work, or you could probably go with a 40 breeder to cut down your costs of an extra heater, and filters. At least put a sponge in your sump to build up bacteria. You can at least set up the tanks while you wait for meds. You might as well order the seachem copper test kit, cuz your LFS will not likely have that. I hear you when your LFS Said "CUPRAMIN?" 2-3 of mine never heard of it, the one did, and he had it, and agrees it is some of the best ich treatment out there.

Good luck, i hope you cure it, and listen to Steve-S, he knows his stuff, and is on top of posts all the time. And move all your fish, keep us posted, and keep the Good Pics Coming, I WANT A NEW CAMERA.
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Old 06-01-2005, 10:16 PM   #38
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shipping scheduale

Pet Solutions Shipping Scheduale

https://www.petsolutions.com/Article.aspx?id=4

If you order by 10:30 AM Thursday, it will ship Thursday, that should put it at your door in two days, according to the map. I would order it ASAP, they are really good in my experience.

HTH.
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50 Gallon Oceanic: 2 maxijet 1200's, 2 150 watt visitherm heaters, BakPak II Skimmer with PS & BT, Coralife Lunar 2X65 watt Power Compacts

Filtration: 50lbs LR.com, 60lbs sand

Swimmers: 2 O. Clowns, Yellow Watchman, Firefish, Yellow Tang, Dottyback.

Clean-Up: Several snail & hermits, Skunk Cleaner, 2 Peps.

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Old 06-01-2005, 10:58 PM   #39
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Thanks, Badfish. I appreciate you checking on that. I'll go give it a look.

I definitely plan to follow Steve-S's guidelines - I'm starting right now, actually.

Also, my thinking on the pair of 20's is this:

- I think even 40 might be a little tight for this group, especially with the large and fairly dominant Imperator at the heart of my problem.

- A 20 might be tight for him, of course, but he could be alone or with the least likely fish to have issues with him. I just keep thinking the good nature of the other fish and their ability to get along so well currently is more likely to carry over to two smaller groups in smaller tanks separate from one another than all piled in together under especially stressful conditions.

- Beyond this large quarantine, having the ability to fire up one 20 gallon for a future QT tank seems more feasible for small livestock additions than maintaining a 40 or larger.

- I think I can throw together a dormant 20 for emergency QT in the future easier than a larger tank. 20 gallons drained off my main tank is a standard water change for me and could be the source water for setting up the QT in a hurry. Replacement water then goes into the main tank and smaller new batches are mixed to maintain the QT.

- My choices locally are limited. I can buy two 20's and a couple of cheap HOB filters for the cost of a "20 starter kit" or most of the other larger tanks I saw for sale in the local stores.

Granted, I realize the smaller the tank the more water changing maintenance. For special cases like this (and I hope they stay special and don't become routine), I think I can swing it.

Realistically, what will the water changing regimen be for a 20 QT under the circumstances I describe?

I am planning on order a couple of bottles of Cupramine, the Ammonia Alert (one for each tank), and the SeaChem Copper test kit. Other items?

Again, my reasoning may be flawed, so I'd appreciate any counter arguments to my thinking here.

Thanks, folks!
- Aaron
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90G acrylic/22G sump/TF100A skimmer
90lbs (45 liverocks.com & ~45 donated 14+ year old Fiji)
Imperator, D. Saddle Butterfly, 2 Percula Clowns, Cleaner Shrimp and an army of Hermits that never sleep
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Old 06-01-2005, 11:05 PM   #40
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Well water changes for the 20 or even 40 using cupramine are going to almost be daily until the treatment is over and then after that you'll have to do one every 2 days or so. Towards the end of the qt the tank will start to catch up biologically...

Hypo will still be a tough regiment of changes, but not as bad as the copper. On the other hand copper is alot easier to do then hypo, then again hypo is better for the fish, and so on, and so on, so on. Either way, its not a walk in the park, but if done right your fish will be A OK!
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