Sump Diagram Update

[Salttanker]

I made some changes to the original diagram as suggested by my peers on here. Does anybody see any problems with the new changes, or will it work fine like this? Thanks again for your advice!

Mike

 

[RLG2182]

Looks good!

Out of curiosity... what extra function would the spray bar in the fuge serve?

 

[fishfreek]

You could increase the height of the dividers a little bit unless you where expecting 15 gal of back flow on a power outage.

 

[Salttanker]

I figured the spraybar would give the fuge more filtration and water movement.

fishfreek - So you're saying I need to raise all the dividers up? That is the part I am confused about. I certainly don't want 15 gal of water on the floor. Thanks

Mike

 

[fishfreek]

Im saying you probably could. The diagram looks like all your dividers will be at about 1/2 height so the tank will have about 15 gal of water in it and be able to hold another 15 gal of back wash in the event of power outage. You might be able to get away with rasing the dividers up a little to gain more water in the system. Have you given any thought to how you will replace the evaporation water? The last chamber where your return pumps are will most likly never have its water level evin with the rest of the sump because of evaporation. This is where your evaporation will show thru out the day(s) between top offs.

 

[Salttanker]

You see..this is why I post my questions here. That is the part I am most curious about. If I have all these chambers, how will I handle topoffs? I know the chamber with the pumps in it will be the one that evaps the most, so I can top it off. However, after a day of running, will I likely have to topoff each chamber? :?

Mike

 

[fishfreek]

Nope. The only chamber that will drop due to evaporation is the last chamber where your pumps are. Just like how the main tank never drops due to evaporation the first and second chambers of the sump will always be full to capacity because of water flowing into them from the previous chamber. The last chamber is uinque in that water flows from it back to the tank to complete the water cycle. This is the only chamber that will reflect evaporation as far as its water level. The only times the other chambers are at a level below full capacity is if the last chamber runs dry or your taking water out of the sump for a water change.

ALot of people setup auto topoffs that either drip or use a float to add water when it drops below a particular level and then cuts off when water gets back up the the working level. You might be able to run 2 or 3 days with out adding water before the pumps run dry. That will depend on the overall size of the final chamber. If its fairly small and only holds a few gal's of water then you will need to top off more frequent to keep your pumps from running dry. If your final chamber is large you might be able to go a week but should still get on a regular daily or every other day top off schedule.

It doent look like you have calculated out the sizes of each chamber yet as I dont see dimensions above. It might be good to start thinking about that in respect to how large the fuge will be and how much water will be in the pump chamber, etc. I see you have heaters in the first and last chamber. That might push the middle fuge chamber to be smaller than you would like. There isnt anything wrong with having the heaters in the fuge area as I would think that would be the chamber you would want to be the largest in the system.

 

[Salttanker]

Thanks FF. In your opinion, how large should I make the chamber with the pumps in it? Eventually I will setup an auto topoff, but for now, you're saying make it a decent size so evap will take longer correct? At this point, I can make it as large as needed. The fuge is something optional I am wanting to try, but if it is too much trouble then I will just use this as a sump. The total dimensions on the tank is 30x16x16, so there isn't a whole lot of room to work with there. I'll see what I can do here. Thanks again for your advice on this.

Mike

 

[fishfreek]

I would shoot for around 5 days worth of evoration time before the pumps ran dry. That would require between 5-10 gal of water in the pump area depending on evaporation. I see about 1 gal a day on both of my 80 and 75 tanks. This would allow you to go on a multiple day trip an dnot have to worry about having someone come to the tnak every day to dump some water in. When you do have to have someone assist you with water additions you should add a line with marker or water resistant tape to the outside of the sump to mark the FULL level and also mark a line just above where your pumps start to suck in air and mark it LOW or ADD WATER.

A way to automate this would be to have a float switch setup with a RO filter that would start the RO filter when water dropped and caused the float swtich to open. Then as the RO filter filled the area it would close the switch and cut the flow of water. An automated procedure would permit a smaller pump chamber. When calculating sizes remember your going to be running the tank at 50-75% full during normal operations so you will only have between 8-12" of water in the system vs the full 16" deep if it was full.

 

[Salttanker]

That sounds great. Thanks for the information!

Mike

 

[gooyferret]

Salttanker you will need to add another divider on the end of the bubble trap...otherwise you will get a waterfall effect when evaporation comes out of the pump area.

 

[Boxster]

Agree with gooyferret that when your water in your return chamber goes lower, then the water fall might cause some bubbles effect, but you can adjust the level through the topoff system, then the bubbles may not be a big deal. But I would put it in.

In additional to all that had been said, you also need to think about how much gallons you do for your water changes. You don't want the return chamber to be too small such that every water changes, you need to shutdown the return pump. Ideally, you want your return chamber to be able to handle your water changes wihtout shutting down your system.

 

[Salttanker]

Ideally, you want your return chamber to be able to handle your water changes wihtout shutting down your system.

gooyferret - My sump came with a micron sock filter. Can this be used in place of the bubble trap? Just curious.

Very good advice Boxster. I think I will just make this a Berlin sump with no fuge. This way, I will have plenty of water to work with without powering down everything for water changes, and not worrying if I have to leave for a few days at a time. Thanks again!

Mike

 

[Boxster]

Mike: Don't quite understand your idea about Berlin Sump with no fuge. You mean your are going to take out the divider between the fuge and the reutrn chamber so that your sump is only 2 chamber?

 

[Salttanker]

Correct. I was toying with the idea of having a fuge in there, but I want to be able to have enough water to do water changes in there. If I did a fuge, it would be really small. Would it still be worth it?

Mike

 

[RLG2182]

Mike... any fuge is better than no fuge. But not at the expense of being able to add more LR Rubble, or having things cramped. It's up to you really... you could always add in an HOB fuge later if you wish. Just know that a tiny fuge might not lower your nitrates by a significant amount... it still would be a good place to harvest macro if you're feeding it to tangs, etc. Same for a small haven for pods, etc.

And don't worry about that waterfall sound... it's not a big deal really. But again, it's up to you. A sock is not the same as a bubble trap. Basically, the bubble trap is there so that no micro bubbles get back into your pump. It's next to impossible for an air bubble to go under water, and come up the other end w/o popping. A sock is merely there to catch small debris and such. HTH.

Happy building!!!

 

[Salttanker]

A sock is not the same as a bubble trap. Basically, the bubble trap is there so that no micro bubbles get back into your pump.

Thanks Rob. They sent me a sump with no documentation, so I have trying to figure out what goes where, etc. So the sock should catch the the debris from the 2 outlet pipes, which should be pointed towards the sock, correct?
I will try to add a fuge in there..I just think it would be somewhat beneficial to the fish; even if it is smaller than anticipated. Thanks again for your feedback.

Mike

 

[Boxster]

. It's next to impossible for an air bubble to go under water, and come up the other end w/o popping. HTH.

Not really true. It depends on the power of the return pump as well. I know this because this is what happened to my sump. I can see that the bubbles goes through the trap and ended at the bottom of my return chamber due to the high turnover rate of my return pump.


Mike: If you do not want to have a fuge, then you must carefully plan your plumbing such that your skimmer can take most of the raw water from the intake and processed it. This will help with processing the watse before it break down into nitrate and phosphate. Also, going with Berlin style, you want to "cook" your LR until it is clean first. Why not you update your drawing to include the new dimension of the fuge as well so we can have a better idea.

 

[RLG2182]

Correct... just make sure that you clean that sock out every week or so. The sock doesn't have to cover the two outlets with tape or glue or anything... the water should just be draining into the stock like a big strainer.

 

[Salttanker]

Ok. If I do setup the fuge in regards to the dividers, I saw some at HD, but wasn't sure if these would work due to the thickness. They seem rather thin, so will this make a difference?
I am planning on getting a new skimmer that will be able to handle the load before the reef rubble.

The sock doesn't have to cover the two outlets with tape or glue or anything... the water should just be draining into the stock like a big strainer.

Thanks Rob! That's what I though, but I wanted to make sure that would work.

Mike