Sump and overflow problems

[Thomsm10]

Hello all!
I am at a lost as to what to do. I have a sump and a hang on back overflow setup. Those run perfect. The issue is all the dang particles in the aquarium are just circulating and not going towards the overflow. A little bit does and the overflow takes care of it but for the most part as seen in the pictures and video (posted in link in comment waiting to be admin approved ) all the particles just stay in the mid to low level water column and doesn’t make it close enough to the sump.

Now I have tried just about every angle with the return flow. To push it straight over to the overflow, push away to try and circulate it to the overflow and every other direction. I let it run for a day to see if the angle works before trying another. Nothing helps. Same issues particles just suspended

Setup:
120 gallon tank. I have an esshops 1200. And a 2250 gph pump. I have it running at max efficiency. The flow is amazing. But as you can see the particles stay so low in the water column they don’t get close or stay on the surface to the surface to get to the overflow box. Even with one return facing down to stir up the bottom the particles go to the top briefly then sink right down to around the middle again and stays there.

Any suggestions?
I have another 120 running on two canister filters and it looks crystal clear. Are canisters just better than sumps??

 

[Thomsm10]

Link to pictures of tank and video
https://photos.app.goo.gl/koTkrayEJg4A7zbn8

 

[Andy Sager]

It sounds like your circulation pattern is the issue. I would either add another "wave pump" to flow the water in the middle of the tank or adjust the one(s) you have to better flow in the middle of the tank.
Having not been able to see the link you mentioned that shows the tank, I am assuming this is a 6 foot long 120 gal tank. Your filter output should be on one end of the tank while the intake should be on the other end. The outflow should rollover the surface of the tank so that it makes a rolling motion which will make the top water fall to the bottom after hitting the wall which will cause the bottom water to rise up to the surface. A circulation pump on the opposite end of the tank should help circulate the falling water and mid water level and be aimed towards the bottom of the tank at a small enough angle that it doesn't blow a hole into the substrate.

Another option is to use an intake that extends down the bottom of the tank so that the incoming water comes from every level of the tank. ( The secret to not having something like this flood the sump should the electric go out is to drill a hole in the intake tube just under the surface of the water so that when the water starts to go down, the hole breaks the siphon. )

To answer the question Are canisters better than sumps? I would say since they are different styles of filters, they can't be compared for better or worse. You can do a lot more in a sump than you can in a canister so that gives the edge to sumps. With canisters, you can run them without drilling holes in the tank or having to deal with overflow boxes so they get the edge there. Personally, I find working with sumps much easier than working with canisters.
Hope this helps.

 

[Thomsm10]

Thank you for the reply!
The link hasn’t been admin approved yet so it’s not showing yet.

I will try to adjust the returns like you said and see what that does. Having it aimed up to the surface and I am assuming straight to the front panel or towards the overflow? I also think a wave pump is needed.

I’m scared about adding a lower intake. Is the drilled hole in the top a for sure way to stop flooding?

 

[Colin_T]

The white stuff floating about looks like fish poop that is probably being held under the rocks. I would put a small powerhead with a sponge or an internal power filter at the bottom of the tank so it pushes a current along the substrate and around the rocks. That should help blow any gunk out and up where it will hopefully be taken out by the surface skimmer.

The fact there appears to be white poop floating around would suggest at least one of the fish has an intestinal problem. If the fish are all eating well, they probably have intestinal worms. If you want to treat them for worms, see information below.

-------------------

TREATING FISH FOR INTESTINAL WORMS
Intestinal Worms like tapeworm and threadworms cause the fish to lose weight, continue eating and swimming normally, and do a stringy white poop. Fish can do this for months and not be too badly affected. In some cases, fish with a bad worm infestation will actually gain weight and get fat and look like a pregnant guppy. This is due to the huge number of worms inside the fish.

You can use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes. And use Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. If you can't find these medications, look for Flubendazole, which treats both lots of worms.

In the UK look for:
eSHa gdex contains praziquantel that treats tapeworm and gill flukes.
eSHa-ndx contains levamisole and treats thread/ round worms.
NT Labs Anti-fluke and Wormer contains flubendazole.
Kusuri wormer plus (contains flubendazole) - sold mainly for discus, comes as a powder which is quite hard to dose in smaller tanks
Sera nematol (contains emamectin)

Remove carbon from filters before treatment and increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

You treat the fish once a week for 4 weeks. The first treatment will kill any worms in the fish. The second, third and forth treatments kill any baby worms that hatch from eggs inside the fish's digestive tract.

Treat every fish tank in the house at the same time to prevent cross contamination.

You do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean 24-48 hours after treatment. Clean the filter 24-48 hours after treatment too.

Do not use the 2 medications together. If you want to treat both medications in a short space of time, use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

The water changes will remove most of the medication so you don't overdose the fish the next time you treat them. The gravel cleaning will suck out any worms and eggs that have been expelled by the fish. Repeating the treatment for 3-4 doses at weekly intervals will kill any worms that hatch from eggs. At the end of the treatment you will have healthier fish.

 

[Thomsm10]

Awesome information! Thank you so much.

Also, the white fish poop thingy is just some of my media floss. I was changing out some stuff in the sump cause the baffle on one was too high and a lot of the floss fibers came lose and was floating all around.

 

[Colin_T]

that's good if it's just filter fiber and not stringy white poop

 

[Andy Sager]

Thank you for the reply!
The link hasn’t been admin approved yet so it’s not showing yet.

I will try to adjust the returns like you said and see what that does. Having it aimed up to the surface and I am assuming straight to the front panel or towards the overflow? I also think a wave pump is needed.

I’m scared about adding a lower intake. Is the drilled hole in the top a for sure way to stop flooding?

Now that I've seen the pics, it may be a circulation problem or it's not get clearer because you have nothing in your filter that can collect the finer particles. Before going crazy adding other machines, you can try a product called Acurel F ( https://www.acurel.com/product/acurel-f/#:~:text=Acurel F is MADE IN,Acurel F is super concentrated. ) which is made to help those tiny particle coagulate to make larger particles for your filter to remove. There are also polishing products like Seachem's purigen ( https://www.seachem.com/purigen.php) or media pads designed for polishing the water. Trying these can be a less expensive way of eliminating the issue.

As for the hole " trick", if you don't feel comfortable with it, I suggest you not do it. That said, yes, air is the best thing to break a siphon. The way you make sure it doesn't flood is to fill the sump with only enough water that when the electric goes off and the water in the pipes and above the hole goes back into the sump, it can not overflow. The mistake most people make is they fill the sump up all the way AFTER the tank is running. That is the recipe for disaster because they don't take into consideration the water in the pipes. I start with an empty sump and fill the fish tank to the point where the water starts to overflow down to the sump. Then I fill the sump and turn the pump on. The water in the sump will lower as the pipes fill up and when the water is returning to the sump from the tank, mark the sump at that water level and never add water to above that line when the tank is running. I haven't flooded a room yet this way.

 

[Colin_T]

There could also be sediment in the sump or hoses
Maybe put some Dacron (white filter mat) on top of the filter media so it traps the finer particles.

 

[Thomsm10]

Update

Hello all,

So I added some polishing floss and extra fine filtration to the sump. I also got a powerhead to help circulate. Still having issues.
Here is the video to show more details.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vrve2SMpu9oF2R4N7

 

[Andy Sager]

Hello all,

So I added some polishing floss and extra fine filtration to the sump. I also got a powerhead to help circulate. Still having issues.
Here is the video to show more details.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vrve2SMpu9oF2R4N7

Give it some time. (Or if you can't, use the Acurel F). The fish don't seem to be having any ill effects from this so it's not something that will kill them.

 

[Thomsm10]

Yes I think you’re right lol. It’s been about 6 hours now. They’re still “a lot” of particles but it’s about half of what it was. There must of been millions in there haha. I’m still curious as to what all that’s particles are I can’t find any source. I only feed what they eat. No pellets get uneaten. Twice a day.

 

[Andy Sager]

Yes I think you’re right lol. It’s been about 6 hours now. They’re still “a lot” of particles but it’s about half of what it was. There must of been millions in there haha. I’m still curious as to what all that’s particles are I can’t find any source. I only feed what they eat. No pellets get uneaten. Twice a day.

It's tough to say. It could just be a benign bacteria bloom or it could be a sediment. But if the polishing material is working, make sure you rinse it routinely so that it does not get clogged and the water passes over it but not through it.

As for the 6 hours, that's barely any time. Give it a couple of days to be cleared out or if you reach a point where it's better but not totally clear, rinse out or replace the material.

 

[Colin_T]

The water looks milky cloudy. Is that normal or the picture?

 

[Thomsm10]

That’s from the flocculant I added trying to get some of that stuff to clump together.