Another ammonia thread. . .

[Crow]

I set up a 20 gallon aquarium with a startup kit about 4 weeks ago. I put bacteria in it, let it cycle for two days, and put 6 fish in it, about 8.5 inches worth. Fortunately I went to a good aquarium shop, and the man there advised me towards hardy fish.

Everything was fine for about two days, but then my ammonia shot up, high. Above 7 ppm. I put Ammo-lock II in it, just one time, and started doing 25% water changes every three days and lower my feeding to what the fish could eat once a day in 2 minutes, and started putting Cycle bacteria in it with each water change.

That didn't work, so I removed an old dog skull (a real one) and some pottery I had in there, leaving only rocks and some wood that had been in a friends aquarium. I boiled all of my decor before I put it in the aquarium.

Still no change, so I added an additional filter, mainly to increase oxygenation since the tank is kinda tall instead of wide.

I've used 3 different ammonia tests, one of which claims to not react to ammonia reducing agents, one that claims to work in both fresh and salt water, and one that is a Nessler (and should give a false reading after the ammo-lock.)

My tap water has an ammonia level of .25 ppm, nothing excessive, and my filter is brown with bacteria, plus some brown spots on the glass and some decor which I hope is bacteria. My new filter, put in two days ago, is already starting to get some bacteria spots.

My nitrites peaked at a fairly low level about a week after I put the fish in and are now steadily at 0. My nitrates are steady with the frequent water changes.

And my fish are not only alive and kicking, they seem quite happy, and make use of all levels of the tank. Even my plants are growing.

But I'm still getting a reading of 7.0 ppm for ammonia on all three tests. Any ideas? I'm reluctant to get any more fish until I know I can accurately test the ammonia level.

Thanks,
--Crow

 

[Allivymar]

Weirdness. I'm currently doing a fishless cycle on a tank, and am using 2 types of tests (one dipstick, one vial based). One tells me my nitrate readings are 40 ppm, the other 10 ppm. I'm bringing a sample into the lfs tomorrow for a 3rd opinion LOL

I realise you've used 3 diff tests, but maybe try bringing a sample to a lfs for an "outside" opinion? I can't imagine why you would test so high for ammonia on what should be a pretty cycled tank, especially since your fish are showing no signs of ammonia poisoning.

 

[azn dreamer]

Shouldn't the ammonia be at 0 if the nitrite is at 0? Because ammonia is nuetralized into nitrite after a couple of weeks...i wouldn't be too worried because after ammo-lock is put in, it changes ammonia and ammonium which is not toxic to fish... I would say keep doing frequent water changes or get a test kit that tests ammonium not ammonia. Hope i've helped

so I removed an old dog skull (a real one)

8O 8O

 

[tkos]

Keep doing water changes. That cycle in a bottle stuff really doesn't do very much. The only bacteria in a bottle that has been proven to work is bio-spira as it needs refrigeration. Is the cycle stuff you are talking about also a water conditioner.

It seems that the reason you don't have nitrite readings is that you haven't had the spike yet. That means you don't have enough ammonia bacteria built up yet. You need a full compliment of them built up to change the ammonia to nitrite and this isn't happening yet. Since you have fish in the tank they are producing more ammonia than your water changes are capable of handling but keep doing them.

You also took out the decorations and boiled them which you shouldn't do from now on as you just lost some of your good bacteria doing that.

 

[loganj]

The only thing that comes to mind is that the bacteria hasn't caught up with the bio load yet. It should have in 4 weeks unless you have been changing things in the tank. Have you been changing the filter cartridges regularly? If so, this could have adversly affected you bacterial growth. The fact that nitrites have spiked already kinda muddies the water on that theory though. What ammonia tests are you using (brand) and are they dated? Some (most) reagents have a given shelf life after which you can not depend on their results. Although some tanks take longer to cycle than others, your ammonia should be gone after 4 weeks since the bacteria that processes nitrite grows more slowly than the ammonia bacteria. I would do two things. 1) Give it a couple more weeks. 2) Take a water sample to the LFS and get them to test it. Keep us posted .

 

[Crow]

Wow, lots of responses fast!

lessee, answers to questions in order of replies:

My test *strip* for nitrite looks like 0 ppm. The one time I tested with the liquid test it was a really low level. My well water has nitrates in it too, if I'm remembering correctly.

My nitrites peaked at 0.5 ppm 8 days after setup, then when back down to "0" then went up again to 0.25 ppm three days later, then going back to "0" and staying at "0" since.

I boiled the decorations before I put them in, most of them came from another aquarium and had some algae on them.

I haven't changed my filter cartridge yet either, I'm waiting for bacteria to build up in the new filter before I change the old one.

The tests that I'm using for ammonia are:

Jungle Labs Ammonia quick dip,
Ammonia Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master test kit
Seachem Ammonia Alert. (This one claims to test "free ammonia")

I think I'll take a water sample to the LFS this weekend, and see what they get. How big of a sample will they need? Depending on what they say, I'll try to find some Bio-Spira.

Can some fish even survive an ammonia level of 7.0ppm for 4 weeks? That's what's convincing me it's some kind of false reading. I have 2 gourami's and they're not even bothering to go up for air. Are there any not-so-obvious behaviours I should be looking for? I also have 2 Green tiger barbs and two zebra dainos.

Thanks for all the prompt help, and I'll keep you advised!

 

[Crow]

:?

 

[loganj]

I wouldn't trust any of these kits after Ammo Lock was added. Get either the Aquarium Pharm ammonia kit that uses two reagents (for fresh or salt water) or the Hagen fresh or salt kit. The SeaChem test kit should work as well. You need a salicylate based kit for this test. JMHO.

 

[wabyrd]

AmmoLock will give you a falsely positive high ammonia reading. Instead of adding AmmoLock in the future, try doing frequent, small water changes.

 

[Allivymar]

I was under the impression you were testing with a salicylate based test, but am unsure if the 3 you've mentioned are as I've never used them.

I scoffed this quote from aqualink.com: "A caution - products like Amquel, by Kordon, will cause a false-positive ammonia test when a Nessler's reagent ammonia test is used. If you use a product that says it "locks up ammonia, converting it to a harmless form" (or words to that effect), you need to use a salicylate ammonia test. A Nessler's reagent test doesn't differentiate between ammonia and ammonium ion (NH4+) or other compounds with an amine group attached but a salicylate test reports ammonia only. "

If they are all Nessler tests, it would readily explain your levels (because of the addition of AmmoLock). Make sure you mention you've added it to the lfs before they test, so they use the correct one.

 

[loganj]

I believe the Seachem Ammonia Alert isn't supposed to be fooled by the Ammo Lock...I don't trust them though. Call me paraniod I guess I think the ammonia kit that comes with the AP FW master kit is a nessler...but I could be mistaken there. If it only has one reagent, it is nessler.

 

[Crow]

Well, I went to the lfs with a water sample, but all they had was nessler test kit so that wasn't very helpful. I wasn't going to wait a couple more weeks before I got anymore fish, but there were only two green tiger barbs left and I wanted to get four more so I bought the last two. The clerk told me that if the ammonia level was as high as the tests indicated, they would probably die from the shock. They didn't!

And now my ammonia levels seem to be inching their way down. I don't know if I'm getting rid of the ammo-lock or the free ammonia, but hopefully all will work out. So far I've been lucky, and haven't lost one fish!