Balance

[RedDevil83]

Let's talk about water changes and how often you disturb the ecosystem you created. Is there people that wait too long to clean or with proper filtration is it wise to wait longer? Fish stress is what I'm getting at here peeps.

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[RedDevil83]

Wondering if a balance of certain factors in Cichlid keeping is in itself a factor.

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[jmats]

Good question. This was actually posted on a Facebook group for the Boston area I follow a few months ago. I went back and found it for you. It should answer your question.






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[jmats]

Last one. It's really long sorry.



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[TMRC Exotics]

This should be in general discussion, not the cichlid section. That said for me balance is achieved through consistency. Maintaining at minimum once weekly water changes helps to keep my pH steady as well as water clean.

 

[Reygan2]

Oh boy!....exactly what I'm looking for. We switched to well water last year. Previously my tap and tank was always the same...7.6ish. I tested the well water out of the tap after we'd had it for a few days, and it read 6.4!!! I was mortified, thinking all was lost and I'd have all sorts of trouble with my existing tank. However, for some reason things have been perfectly fine.
Get this, just for the heck of it I tested my ph again out of the tap the other day: 6.4. Okay, I tested my tank: 7.6.
I do 50% water changes weekly, yet my fish show absolutely no signs of any stress when I do. I tested during my last wc and the tank ph went down pretty quickly as I was refilling.
What am I missing here?

 

[coralbandit]

Get this, just for the heck of it I tested my ph again out of the tap the other day: 6.4. Okay, I tested my tank: 7.6.
I do 50% water changes weekly, yet my fish show absolutely no signs of any stress when I do. I tested during my last wc and the tank ph went down pretty quickly as I was refilling.
What am I missing here?

It sounds like your water is outgassing co2 and thus gaining pH so to speak.
This is really just letting your water adjust to it's "natural" ph.

I change 50% weekly on all but my marine tanks.
I use potassium permanganate every week or every other week on my 180g to help with having the best water quality with "minimal" effort.
I have aprox. 1,000 gallons of tanks to maintain so any help I can get is huge.
I prepare ALL of my water in 32,44 gallon rubbermaids(140 g worth!).
I use a lot of RO for my GBR breeding and grow out tanks.
I use a good amount of RO/DI for my reefs.
I really can't imagine doing a water change that is too large or would have a negative effect on any fish.
That being said if a fish/tank has not been maintained then smaller more frequent changes should be made until the water quality and parameters are in line.
After that I roll with an old friends signature;
CHANGE AS MUCH WATER AS POSSIBLE AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE."inkmaker"
He also says you have to flush the toilet !

 

[RedDevil83]

This should be in general discussion, not the cichlid section. That said for me balance is achieved through consistency. Maintaining at minimum once weekly water changes helps to keep my pH steady as well as water clean.

Yeah sorry about that.

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[Reygan2]

I have aprox. 1,000 gallons of tanks to maintain so any help I can get is huge.
I prepare ALL of my water in 32,44 gallon rubbermaids(140 g worth!).

Whoa... that's pretty hard core.

I absolutely agree with "flushing the toilet" lol.

 

[Fresh2o]

I really can't imagine doing a water change that is too large or would have a negative effect on any fish.
That being said if a fish/tank has not been maintained then smaller more frequent changes should be made until the water quality and parameters are in line.

This should be included in EVERY water change discussion.


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[RedDevil83]

I prefer large wc, leaving time for the fish to enjoy themselves.

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[Caliban07]

That being said if a fish/tank has not been maintained then smaller more frequent changes should be made until the water quality and parameters are in line.

What does 'in line' actually mean?

How do you define 'maintained'?

How are you sure the ecosystem is not affected by larger water changes?

If two identically stocked heavily planted tanks are run side by side, one being low light and no ferts and receives 10% water changes once a fortnight and the other is high tech EI with regular glut dosing and injected co2 and receives one 50% water changes every week, which tank is more stable?


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[coralbandit]

What does 'in line' actually mean?

How do you define 'maintained'?

How are you sure the ecosystem is not affected by larger water changes?

If two identically stocked heavily planted tanks are run side by side, one being low light and no ferts and receives 10% water changes once a fortnight and the other is high tech EI with regular glut dosing and injected co2 and receives one 50% water changes every week, which tank is more stable?


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In line would mean acceptable nitrates and ph,not readings from a tank that has been neglected for to long(going to ask me how long is too long?)
Too long would IMO(all of this is IMO ) be resulting in ;high nitrate readings(what is high?),unhealthy fish,and a pH that is not close to how the source water adjusted to natural after outgassing.

I define maintained as water changed to keep pH accurate and nitrate at an acceptable limit.
Also rinsing /cleaning filters and mechanicals along with any chemical filtration that may need to be replaced or removed.
What is acceptable I suppose is next?
All fish have different ranges and what you are doing with your fish may play a role also.
I don't think most keepers need their tanks as "clean " as my GBR breeding tanks and fry/ juvi growouts?

How do I know large waterchanges don't effect the "eco system"?
I think they do!
In a positive way that is.
I test and have tested for years(and years and years).
Every tank is different but once you can understand the pattern your tank has then you can try any number of mantainance plans and see which gives the results or gets you closest to the results you are looking for.

The point was a "neglected " tank and fish may have volumes of nutrients ,DOC and a pH that was not how the tanks water was when installed.
To do a large water change on such a tank would be stressful on the fish IMO and smaller changes to get the water and fish back to where the source water is the best approach.
Hope I answered OK and this really helps?
The 50% mandatory on EI is because the ferts are dosed in excess and need to be "zeroed" out so the whole process can start again.

 

[Caliban07]

In line would mean acceptable nitrates and ph,not readings from a tank that has been neglected for to long(going to ask me how long is too long?)
Too long would IMO(all of this is IMO ) be resulting in ;high nitrate readings(what is high?),unhealthy fish,and a pH that is not close to how the source water adjusted to natural after outgassing.

I define maintained as water changed to keep pH accurate and nitrate at an acceptable limit.
Also rinsing /cleaning filters and mechanicals along with any chemical filtration that may need to be replaced or removed.
What is acceptable I suppose is next?
All fish have different ranges and what you are doing with your fish may play a role also.
I don't think most keepers need their tanks as "clean " as my GBR breeding tanks and fry/ juvi growouts?

How do I know large waterchanges don't effect the "eco system"?
I think they do!
In a positive way that is.
I test and have tested for years(and years and years).
Every tank is different but once you can understand the pattern your tank has then you can try any number of mantainance plans and see which gives the results or gets you closest to the results you are looking for.

The point was a "neglected " tank and fish may have volumes of nutrients ,DOC and a pH that was not how the tanks water was when installed.
To do a large water change on such a tank would be stressful on the fish IMO and smaller changes to get the water and fish back to where the source water is the best approach.
Hope I answered OK and this really helps?
The 50% mandatory on EI is because the ferts are dosed in excess and need to be "zeroed" out so the whole process can start again.

Facetiousness aside that is a better explanation. Particularly your following quote.

"Every tank is different but once you can understand the pattern your tank has then you can try any number of maintenance plans and see which gives the results or gets you closest to the results you are looking for".

I know why people do 50% water changes with EI or just 50% in general. It was a question of stability.

I think it's important to recognise that water changes are subjective based on the particular tank in question. It's important to understand that there are more methods than one to keeping an ecosystem and for that reason I believe it is important to precede sentences with In my experience or in my opinion as you have now stated

Ultimately I personally believe that regardless of the method you choose if your tank inhabitants are happy and healthy and things are working out for you then you have cracked it.


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[RedDevil83]

Lots of great advice and facts everyone thanks for posting

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[HausMaus]

My little 10g/35L can go more than two weeks without any nitrates showing up. I am always second guessing whether to do PWC anyway because that's what I thought I should do. I always test Ph, Amm, Trites, Trates, GH and KH weekly.
Last time I gravel vacced just because it hadn't been done for over two weeks, my guppies started to swim against the current a couple days later. A LFS dude said maybe I disturbed some nitrites in the gravel that irritated them. My pygmy corys were fine.
I wondered if I hadn't done the gravel vacc (cos the water params were fine) that the gupps would've been fine. Should've left well enough alone.


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[Reygan2]

You didn't disturb nitrites lol. I've heard it all now.


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[RedDevil83]

I think fish farts balance everything out.

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