I'm messing up with corys.. help

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Indy5353

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
May 5, 2022
Messages
10
I'm pretty new to fishkeeping - I got into it a few months ago after watching too many youtube videos and just wanted to keep my own ecosystem with happy inhabitants.

I've had this tank going a few months now without issue. I started with the chili raspbora and neo cherry shrimp & everyone seemed to be doing well. Lost 2 shrimp in the beginning due to improper acclimation but otherwise everyone is thriving. I decided I wanted to add some nano cories to the tank community.

The cories settled in okay, but a week into it I began having unexpected deaths where the cories would grow pale and listless. I've tried everything to troubleshoot. I've tried adding brine shrimp to their diet because that's what the petshop had been feeding them - affected corys wouldn't touch it. I seperated the first fish to a quarantine tank and treated with Paracleanse, thinking it was internal parasites - fish dead in 24 hours (also treated main tank with Paracleanse because I was feeling paranoid). I've added a bubbler, thinking it might be improper oxygenation despite of all the plants I have - next fish dead the following morning. I've tried a 30% water change and attempted vacuum cleaning a densely planted tank (that didn't go great) - 3rd fish in the slow decline of dying. I continue to loose cories in what I'm worried is some dumb newbie mistake. I'm down to my last 2 of the 5 I brought home. These 2 continue to show good foraging activity, however I am expecting more abrupt deaths.

This experience has really spoiled my enjoyment of the tank and hate watching them waste away for no explainable reason. Nothing I do is working. I really loved watching these guys when they were well but I can't go down and look down in my tank and see dead or suffering animals. I probably won't have corys again, it's just too tragic, but if there's any additional ideas to save the remaining 2 I'd love some help.

All the tank-specific info is given below.

1~What type of fish is afflicted? - Corydoras hasbrosus. Loss of activity/appetite/color, wasting away to death in 24-48 hours after symptoms appear. Occasionally the dying fish might swim up to the surface to gasp for air, but that is it. On death I've observed their bodies and noted no visible damage that indicates injury from substrate on their bellies, discoloration along their gills, loss of barbels, strange spots of infection/etc. Corys came from a good quality LFS that quarantined a week and a half and only sources from US breeders.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? - 0/0/0 for Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. 7.4 pH, 8 gH, 6 kH

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up? - 13 gallons, 3 months old. Fully cycled (confirmed before adding any fish). Substrate system is pea gravel topped with aqua soil topped Imagitarium black sand. Densely planted tank (java fern, anubias, anacharis, amazon swords, ludwiga reppens, weeping moss). Aqueon clip-on light is used on an 8 hour cycle.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number - Aquaclear 50 HOB filter 200 gph

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes? - 8 cherry shrimp (4 berried), 6 chili raspbora, presently 2 and a half corydoras hasbrosus (was 5). Corys are not yet to their full adult size.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time? - I don’t vacuum the gravel because there’s too many plants. Recently tried to clean a corner of it - minimal success (still plenty of debris if I really stirred up the substrate). Was previously changing water weekly or biweekly but never registered nitrates. Recently changed 30% of the tank water to try and trouble shoot.

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them? - Obtained corys a week and a half ago. They were floated on the surface of the water for 20-30 minutes, then drip acclimated with a turkey baster for an hour. I did not add to a quarantine tank as I thought the stock was a high quality (shame on me).

8~Have you added anything new to the tank—recently planted the ludwiga reppens & replanted some pruned anacharis. However the first fish demonstrated symptoms before this replanting. Also dosed with ParaCleanse after first fish showed symptoms as I was concerned it might be an internal parasite (no longer believe this is the case)

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently? - Hikari micro predator pellets (which are floated down by tube to make sure corys get fed). Recently added in brine shrimp with spiraling per advice from the petshop. Fish are fed 1x per day and fed what they can eat in a few minutes (corys might pick at their food more but everything is gone in an hour after I drop it)
 
Here's a pic I snapped of one of the deceased corys. Looking at it more closely, I hadn't noticed the faint red undertinge by its before - or is that just internal organs thru its transparent skin? My camera exaggerates but could this be red blotch disease? Would it strike so suddenly?
 
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close up of one of the deceased corys. There's a small red blemish beneath its skin but not sure it obtained that in life or not - I had to use a chopstick to remove it because they're wedging themselves in hard-to-reach places to die
 
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I would question your water parameters. Its highly unlikely that you are seeing zero water parameters across ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. None of those plants are known particularly as being fast growing and i doubt they can be taking all the nitrogen from the water. If you are cycled i would expect to see nitrate. If you are uncycled i would expect to see ammonia and/or nitrite depending on how far progressed your cycle is. If those parameters are correct i would also expect to see nutrient deficiencies in your plants.

Double check you are doing the water tests correctly. Particularly the nitrate test. Really got to shake the heck from bottle #2. Like bang it on the counter. Get a 2nd opinion on your water testing.

It looks like you edited your original post. It went from saying you hardly ever did water changes because your water testing said you didnt need them, to you doing water changes every week or 2. What is your normal water change schedule. As a minimum you should be changing 1/3 of your water every 2 weeks even if your water says everything is good. Water changes do more than just control the parameters you are testing for.

Your issues could easily be nothing to do with your own practices. They could just be a bad batch of fish. Water quality issues tend to take a couple of weeks to manifest in ill health, and you have no idea what their water quality was before you got them.

Your photos dont appear to be showing, and when i try to copy the links it causes my device to crash. Take a read through this thread which explains a few methods of attaching photos.

https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f9/including-photos-in-your-posts-378679.html
 
Thanks Aiken.. Yes I edited my post to hopefully make my information clearer/more presentable & match the recomended formum template. I was initially changing my water quite often when I had the tank - 30% weekly, but since I didn't notice anything in my test kit, I decided to stop changing so often (about 2 or 3 weeks ago I think) and was planning to go monthly. I've also been using distilled water lately in an attempt to bring down my pH a little because local tap is pretty hard here (7.6 or 7.8) and I have fish that prefer soft water. To be honest your point about plants makes sense - my anacharis has looked pretty scraggly lately and I couldn't figure out why (just grabbed some fertilizer for them). Is it the hard minerals and such that are important to replenish by water changes I gather?

In terms of the tests being accurate - I'm a chemical engineer by trade so I've been really thorough and consistent in how I test. I measure on 5 ml with a syringe (because the lines on the tube are not accurate), and I make sure to count to 30 when shaking the tube with the first batch and shaking test bottle #2, add test #2 to the tube, count to 60 while shaking vigorously. I don't know, I read the API test and it looks yellowish to me but these kinds of qualitative color tests don't have a ton of comfort for accuracy - but it's the tools I got.

I'll see why the pic wasn't attaching. I tried to upload by discord to post here, but maybe discord ate the file name.
 
20220505_180044_1.jpg


Does this pic go thru now?
 
Distilled water can be bad for fish as it lacks the minerals needed to keep fish healthy, especially young growing fish. Similar to RO water you need to remineralise it before use.

Trying to manage water parameters to what you might consider ideal often causes more issues than it solves, and this could be a case in point. Saying you have "fish that prefer soft water" is only really relevant when you are talking about wild caught fish. Fish that you obtain locally are likely to have been born and raised in water similar to whats coming out of your tap. Keeping parameters consistent is more important than trying to attain what you might think is ideal as you invariably end up with fluctuating water conditions as you try and chase this ideal.

If you dont want to use your tap water then just go with RO water and remineralise or mix RO/distilled with tap water so the new water has some of those minerals lacking in RO distilled water.

On a side note regarding your plants. Lets presume your water testing is correct and you have very little nitrate. For the plants health that really wants to be up around 20ppm. Most fertiliser doesnt contain nitrogen as its perceived to be responsible for algae. Look for something with a good amount of nitrogen in it that can get that nitrate up. NA Thrive is a good one if you are from US.
 
Distilled water can be bad for fish as it lacks the minerals needed to keep fish healthy, especially young growing fish. Similar to RO water you need to remineralise it before use.

Trying to manage water parameters to what you might consider ideal often causes more issues than it solves, and this could be a case in point. Saying you have "fish that prefer soft water" is only really relevant when you are talking about wild caught fish. Fish that you obtain locally are likely to have been born and raised in water similar to whats coming out of your tap. Keeping parameters consistent is more important than trying to attain what you might think is ideal as you invariably end up with fluctuating water conditions as you try and chase this ideal.

If you dont want to use your tap water then just go with RO water and remineralise or mix RO/distilled with tap water so the new water has some of those minerals lacking in RO distilled water.

On a side note regarding your plants. Lets presume your water testing is correct and you have very little nitrate. For the plants health that really wants to be up around 20ppm. Most fertiliser doesnt contain nitrogen as its perceived to be responsible for algae. Look for something with a good amount of nitrogen in it that can get that nitrate up. NA Thrive is a good one if you are from US.

I was monitoring gH & kH to make sure they didn't go too low - and was planning to add in tap water again once they levels decreased too much. I was assuming those 2 parameters should at least ensure I don't make my water too stripped of minerals. I was carefully adding in small amounts of peat moss balls but I know those essentially react away the carbonates (which my shrimps need to some degree) in my water so was proceeding with caution. I've impacted my pH minimally after all this - brought it down to maybe 7.2 - 7.4 in 3 weeks from 7.6 - 7.8. I think I'll concede defeat in trying to "fix" it and hope my fish are just adjusted to harder water.

Part of my low nitrates is I think 6 chili raspbora and 8 neocardina shrimp have minimal bioload. I've seen people have em in Walstad bowls. The corys would have a higher bioload I assume, but they died too fast for me to notice. I picked up some API flourish which lists 0.07 % water soluble nitrogen. Is that enough to help out my plants?

Thanks for helping me out with husbandry questions. Really trying to do my research to help everyone thrive.
 
Oof - yeah thanks. I was googling Thrive's contents and across the board it has more of everything - and even advises higher dosing. API recommends 5 mL per 60 gallons? Sounds negligible. I'll be returning this and grab some Thrive.
 
Here's a video I took of the two healthy cory cats. They look active and voracious with no visible signs of illness, beautiful barbels, etc - but so did the others before they rapidly went downhill. I've made the mistake of naming them - Darwin and Indy (a fruitfly gene standing for I'm not Dead Yet). Not overly optimistic of their odds at this rate to say the least.


In case it's helpful, this is a pic of my tank. I know pictures are worth a thousand words. One of the java ferns is dying off randomly (too much light I think) and anacharis is looking scraggly in places. Some good fertilizer will probably help out the plants.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/696438738364006409/972208849438257232/20220506_115001.jpg

The middle is actually hallow with places for the fish to swim and forage. But maybe the large rocks and driftwood are inappropriate for corys? I have an extra 10 gallon I could look to building up for them if it really is a poor environment I provided for these guys :[ Assuming these 2 live that is.
 
If your a chemical engineer by trade can you please explain to me how to make sulfuric acid with house hold solutions
?
 
Oof - yeah thanks. I was googling Thrive's contents and across the board it has more of everything - and even advises higher dosing. API recommends 5 mL per 60 gallons? Sounds negligible. I'll be returning this and grab some Thrive.
I use flourish. Its fine, just doesnt have any nitrogen or phosphate in it. But i dont have a nitrate shortage.

Unfortunately we dont get Thrive here in UK, but i understand it is the go to fertiliser where it is available. I think aquarium co op does a fertiliser that has a good amount of nitrogen in there too.
 
The last two cory cats aren't looking great today :( Their color is paler today than yesterday. The larger cory cat is showing no activity or much interest in food. Weirdly it is the smaller one that is still showing activity & foraging behavior, but I'm sure by tonight that will change. Water parameters still test the same as before. I might take a water sample down to the local fish store to double check my work - but given no other fish are showing any issue (I even had a mass shrimp molt - probably from the 30% water change)

I've never felt so helpless. I have so few symptoms to work off of I feel like it could be anything. I know people say sometimes you get a "bad batch" - but they had looked so great in their first week, then abruptly started dropping off like flies. Maybe one of the cory cats was incubating an internal ailment that then quickly spread off to the others? I have no idea what to treat for. I have Itch-X, Maracyn, and Paracleanse on-hand but I worry about stressing out the fish with medications that may not be targeting whatever they have - especially because they are so low in energy. I'll try another 30% water change today with tap water treated to remove chlorides ofc - otherwise... no ideas... I'll just watch them die.

No more cory cats after these two kick the bucket :( I've never wanted to feel like a death-sentence for an animal I intended to take great care of. Whoever said cories were "easy" just feels like misinformation.

I turned off the lights today and will let the plants suffer a day or two. I'll see if that helps the cory cats at all
 
Thanks Aiken.. Yes I edited my post to hopefully make my information clearer/more presentable & match the recomended formum template. I was initially changing my water quite often when I had the tank - 30% weekly, but since I didn't notice anything in my test kit, I decided to stop changing so often (about 2 or 3 weeks ago I think) and was planning to go monthly. I've also been using distilled water lately in an attempt to bring down my pH a little because local tap is pretty hard here (7.6 or 7.8) and I have fish that prefer soft water. To be honest your point about plants makes sense - my anacharis has looked pretty scraggly lately and I couldn't figure out why (just grabbed some fertilizer for them). Is it the hard minerals and such that are important to replenish by water changes I gather?

In terms of the tests being accurate - I'm a chemical engineer by trade so I've been really thorough and consistent in how I test. I measure on 5 ml with a syringe (because the lines on the tube are not accurate), and I make sure to count to 30 when shaking the tube with the first batch and shaking test bottle #2, add test #2 to the tube, count to 60 while shaking vigorously. I don't know, I read the API test and it looks yellowish to me but these kinds of qualitative color tests don't have a ton of comfort for accuracy - but it's the tools I got.

I'll see why the pic wasn't attaching. I tried to upload by discord to post here, but maybe discord ate the file name.
Hello, just tossing this out there. Did the corries start dying after you switched to distilled water. If so it may be pH shock. the minerals in water is what buffers the ph & keeps it from swinging. Also the tds could affect them also. Since distilled water has none it will try to draw it from the fish this is known as osmotic pressure. Hopefully this helps!!!!!Screenshot_20220507-205957.jpgScreenshot_20220507-205816.jpg
 
Hello, just tossing this out there. Did the corries start dying after you switched to distilled water. If so it may be pH shock. the minerals in water is what buffers the ph & keeps it from swinging. Also the tds could affect them also. Since distilled water has none it will try to draw it from the fish this is known as osmotic pressure. Hopefully this helps!!!!!View attachment 323397View attachment 323398

Thanks for the thoughts & I'll be mindful of using distilled water in the future, but no the cory deaths well proceeded the water change :( My water has a good deal of buffer in it based on what I see in my gH and kH tests. I've only managed to lower it by 2 degrees after using distilled water for 3 weeks ; and pH has been very stable. From all that I'd infer my water conditions have been pretty stable (but will be mindful in the future not to completely crash it either)



Current theory based on a lot of forum review is the corys have an internal infection of some kind. If it's bacterial, I can treat it - if it's viral, I can only make everyone comfortable and hope for the best. I was hoping it wouldn't come to this but I'll be taking a go at the maracyn plus I have on-hand. It's probably too late for the corys but I want to make sure the chillis didn't pick anything up (or who knows, maybe they were the asymptomatic carriers in the past month I've owned them).
 
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