Failure :(

[FallenAngel]

So some great news. I just got home from work and fed my fish. All 3 bettas swam to the surface together to eat. They seemed fine together and the two with damaged fins look like they are actually regrouping their fins already!


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Awesome!!!!


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[FallenAngel]

Maybe we should change the title of this post


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[Fishdude3233]

Ya I'm thinking that too! How about
"Betta success" or "multiple male betta success"


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[LCieParagon]

How can I change the subject?


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[Fishdude3233]

A mod needs to do it. Pm a mod and they'll get to it eventually.


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[FallenAngel]

Haha, that I don't know


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[Mebbid]

It's waaaay too premature to call this a "success" Once the tank hits the year old mark and assuming the bettas are still cohabitating once they get older then maybe at that point it's okay to be deemed a success. But until then you have no idea whats going to happen with them.

As of now it's best defined as an experiment

 

[Fishdude3233]

It's waaaay too premature to call this a "success" Once the tank hits the year old mark and assuming the bettas are still cohabitating once they get older then maybe at that point it's okay to be deemed a success. But until then you have no idea whats going to happen with them.

As of now it's best defined as an experiment

Sorry I'm just trying to be happy for the member, but in the end your right.


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[Mebbid]

You have to be very realistic and candid about posts like this. The big reason for that is these threads are easily accessible by newbies. Even moreso because this is really pushing the line on ethical fish keeping.

You and I both know people will see something like this and say "He did it I can too!" and throw 5 or 6 male bettas in a 5 gallon tank.

Is it interesting? Very. Interesting enough that I am going to follow this thread despite any disagreements I have with it

 

[LCieParagon]

But this isn't a 5 gallon tank. This is a 48g heavily planted, low pH black water tank with driftwood. It's not even a comparison. I've had fish for years, so it's not like I'm a rookie to fish keeping.


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[Luananeko]

It's waaaay too premature to call this a "success" Once the tank hits the year old mark and assuming the bettas are still cohabitating once they get older then maybe at that point it's okay to be deemed a success. But until then you have no idea whats going to happen with them.

As of now it's best defined as an experiment

Agreed. Calling it a success so soon tends to have people let down their guard and wake up to a tank full of dead bettas. Keep a sharp eye on them and watch for aggression flare ups later. You'll likely need to be vigilant for a year or more before you can really relax any. It's awesome that it's working out right now, but I would hesitate naming it a success so early and risk having others take that as a sign that you can just toss male bettas together and expect constant long-term success

I'd imagine if more heavily tested the general long-term success rate of such an experiment would remain extremely low.

 

[Luananeko]

But this isn't a 5 gallon tank. This is a 48g heavily planted, low pH black water tank with driftwood. It's not even a comparison. I've had fish for years, so it's not like I'm a rookie to fish keeping.

It doesn't matter if it's a comparison. People (especially new keepers) see what they want to see and skim over any details that tell them otherwise. All it takes is for someone to see the thread title and they won't bother to read all the details on the extra steps taken to mitigate risks. It's awesome this is working for now, yes, but I'd hate to see someone less experienced try it without proper research and risk mitigation.

 

[Mebbid]

It doesn't matter if it's a comparison. People (especially new keepers) see what they want to see and skim over any details that tell them otherwise. All it takes is for someone to see the thread title and they won't bother to read all the details on the extra steps taken to mitigate risks. It's awesome this is working for now, yes, but I'd hate to see someone less experienced try it without proper research and risk mitigation.

Thank you, that was exactly the point I was getting at

 

[Sillyfishies]

But this isn't a 5 gallon tank. This is a 48g heavily planted, low pH black water tank with driftwood. It's not even a comparison. I've had fish for years, so it's not like I'm a rookie to fish keeping.


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That wasn't Mebbid's point. She was saying newbies that are not experienced, may try this with a 5 gallon tank. I disagree with this whole thing too, but I would like to know how it plays out.

Anyway, Best of luck! I wasn't trying to come off as rude, so if I did, I apologize. I just don't want people to get the wrong idea.

 

[LCieParagon]

If no one ever pushes the envelope we'd end up having 5 Cory cats in a 100 gallon with 3 canister filters. No one would know anything about fish keeping if risks aren't taken.


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[Fishdude3233]

If no one ever pushes the envelope we'd end up having 5 Cory cats in a 100 gallon with 3 canister filters. No one would know anything about fish keeping if risks aren't taken.


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I don't think that is true. People can observe a fishes behavior in the wild. And see that beta males fight each other.


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[Mebbid]

If no one ever pushes the envelope we'd end up having 5 Cory cats in a 100 gallon with 3 canister filters. No one would know anything about fish keeping if risks aren't taken.


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There's a difference between trying something new and what you're doing.

We see betta behavior together and it's easy to see how they react to one another. Even the female betta harems have an abysmal success rate and those are relatively common. Despite them being far less aggressive than the males the end result is usually the death of all but one of the females. On top of that, even putting a mirror in a betta tank for too long will stress them out (this I've seen for myself). How stressed are they going to be with directly accessible competitors in the tank?

 

[Luananeko]

If no one ever pushes the envelope we'd end up having 5 Cory cats in a 100 gallon with 3 canister filters. No one would know anything about fish keeping if risks aren't taken.

Risks taken are fine, if you're not doing it willy nilly. The idea is risk management. You knew the risks, and did everything you could think of to help mitigate it. I applaud that. The fact it's even working short term is testament to that research and risk management. But it IS an experiment, and any worthwhile experiment needs lengthy follow-up before calling it a total success.

What we're trying to say is, don't take a very carefully set up situation and try to parade it around as something anyone can do with great success unless it's followed for the life of the tank and corroborated by other experiments (ideally by other people). That's what the scientific method is for. Aquariums are both art AND science, don't let anyone fool you otherwise.

 

[LCieParagon]

There's a difference between trying something new and what you're doing.



We see betta behavior together and it's easy to see how they react to one another. Even the female betta harems have an abysmal success rate and those are relatively common. Despite them being far less aggressive than the males the end result is usually the death of all but one of the females. On top of that, even putting a mirror in a betta tank for too long will stress them out (this I've seen for myself). How stressed are they going to be with directly accessible competitors in the tank?

I don't necessarily agree with the female betta conclusion. I've had 4 tanks with at least 4 females in them and no casualties. That's a pretty high success rate. The more females in the tank, the better because aggression is dispersed. There are many, many tutorials even and videos on how to make that situation succeed. Males I understand your point. I've come across little to no threads on it where it's been even attempted. I felt with research, why not give it a try.


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[Andy Sager]

I mentioned this experiment to a fish shop owner today and he had the same reaction as most of had as he too was a large scale Betta breeder. He said " if you tried this with my fish, there would only be one survivor in the tank after a day." We then agreed that today's Bettas are wimps compared to the ones of yesteryear. lol
Having said that tho, I have to agree with the others and say that you cannot declare this a success just yet. Since a Betta in the trade typically lives for 3-5 years, a "success" would only be considered after months if not years of them living together peacefully. So I'm looking forward to the monthly updates, not the dailys.

Good luck with your experiment.