Fish suggestions

[QTOFFER]

I suspect that your neon and danio died before being chowed upon since none of your fish are particularly aggressive. Larger tetras like the blackfins are sometimes known to nip fins, but that's about it. I think that what you are seeing is simply another way that nature conserves resources. Fish are hardwired not to pass up an easy protein-rich meal like a dead tankmate. Rodents do the same thing and I've seen the same behavior in my own danios - the three otos that I lost looked like they went through a thresher when I finally found them. I doubt that you have a serial killer in your tank, lol, but even if you did, time outs would not be productive. The fish are just doing what they do, ya know?

Your danio's behavior toward its own is perfectly normal. Their constant chasing is often misinterpreted as aggression, but it is completely harmless. Danios are incredibly inquisitive and yours is probably fascinated with your guppy's long, pretty fins, but I have never heard of danios being nippy. You have a really nice tank setup and you may want to add a few more plastic plants so your guppy can escape the danio's constant voyeurism.

I wholeheartedly agree with ScottS that you should hold off on getting the otos until things have settled down with this tank. I was unable to introduce them successfully into my well-established 58 gal and I have read that they can be tricky to acclimate.

Your fish are getting over a very stressful event and you are battling parasites. I know the cloudiness and the algae looks gross, but it is harmless. I was told by my lfs not to clean my filter until the water flow is visibly reduced and/or nitrates become elevated. (Of course, removing the carbon pad is necessary if you are medicating). What I'm trying to say is don't mess around with too many aspects of your tank at the same time. This was nearly my downfall in the beginning, lol.

 

[Kwenbee]

I don't know...I SAW the danio go after the guppy. His fins are really not "flowing" yet as he is very, very small. The guppy was cowering in the corner and ALL the fish were avoiding the danio. However, since I'd just taken a half eaten fish out of the tank...one that was absolutely healthy, happy and fine when I saw him three hours before...I didn't know what else to do.

The danio is in the one gallon for tonight. He wasn't too happy about it, but I'll try to reintroduce him tomorrow. He was a bit of a hard catch...man, he was fast!

More plants? I figured we were too full with plants. I was considering putting a live one in this weekend, but I guess that won't be a good idea.

Now, if the danio and tetra both died of natural causes, I really am concerned about the health of the other fish we bought on Monday.

If all the water levels are okay, what could be killing these fish or am I right in assuming they just weren't well when we got them? I am seriously considering purchasing a 29 gallon tank and stand tomorrow and some bio-spyra just to get these guys into a different tank, then empty this 10 gallon, clean it thoroughly and start over with bio-spyra. I'm beginning to think my child will have fifty aquariums by the time we're done!

 

[grimlock3000]

WHAT?? An ALGAE bloom? I had TWO catfish AND an algae eater in that tank. And they FOUGHT over the algae chips but they didn't eat the algae that was already in the tank???? Holy toledo!

Algae in the water and algae in the tank are much different. Algae on the tank walls and stuff can be eaten. Tiny algae floating around in the water is totally different... To get rid of the water algae, you need to cut back on its food supply and let your filtration get established.

The danio is in the one gallon for tonight. He wasn't too happy about it, but I'll try to reintroduce him tomorrow.

Put him in the tank right now, with the lights off if possible. When fish are added during the night in the dark, they handle it much better. Leaving him in the 1g with no heat is just going to make him MUCH more susceptable to diseases. Also, going from 86F water to room temp water is horrible on fish. Moving the Danio from tank to tank could be enough shock to kill it. You should try to avoid changing the water temp a fish is in more than 2F every 12 hours. As a general rule, try to move fish around as little as possible.

I am seriously considering purchasing a 29 gallon tank and stand tomorrow and some bio-spyra just to get these guys into a different tank, then empty this 10 gallon, clean it thoroughly and start over with bio-spyra. I'm beginning to think my child will have fifty aquariums by the time we're done!

Buying another aquarium is not the solution unfortunately. Fishkeeping is definitely not easy once you get started and it is usually best to figure out what you have before going ahead with another tank. Once you get your current tanks running OK, then I would reccomend another tank. Anything the fish may have currently will just carry over into the new tank. Also, most fish stores do not sell Bio-Spira, so you might have a hard time getting some. "Nuking" a tank by removing everything and cleaning it should only be used as a last resort. You need to work on how you got to that point in the first place, or it will happen again. Also, 99% of the time a new tank also means new fish, which can lead to new problems...

In all honesty, I can sympathize with you. For many months, my 10g tank was a death trap. No matter what I did, I was losing fish at a regular pace or about one per week. I have lost so many good fish in that tank it almost makes my cry to think about it. Everytime something went wrong, I did everything I could to try to fix it, even if it was drastic. At one point, I was halfway hoping that all of my fish would just peacefully die so I could start over and not watch my fish always suffering. All of the changes just made everything stay the same or get worse. As stated earlier, the trick is to keep everything stable and make little changes over long periods of time. To fix my situation entirely I did the following...

-Cut the fish load since I used to have way too many Guppies. Even now I have too many fish, but I am waiting for a few to grow a bit more before they get to the 26g tank

-Only feed a little bit once a day. Two feeding may sound OK, but you are just doubling the ammount of waste in the tank. If my fish can not eat their food in a couple of minutes, they have to wait until the next day.

-Gravel vac half the tank (and only half) once per week with a 25% water change. Only doing half at a time keeps the good bacteria in the other half.

-Added a corner filter packed with filter floss and biological material. The cheap filter floss and bio material hold an amazing ammount of good bacteria to make sure the water stays OK.

-Turn the lights off and on at the same time everyday. For my fish, I settled on a 8AM to 8PM day. Before that, I was doing it whenever, which is not a good idea.

-Change the decorations around to suit the fish better. Fish that want to hide have a place to do it easily, and I made sure that my Betta will never catch a fin on a plant when he slide along the glass. Once you get familiar with fish you can pick up on small behavior changes made by changing the landscape. The setup I have now looks sort of odd, but the fish seem to like it

I think that doing contast water changes and always moving fish in and out of the tank and try so many things is causing your problems. It is possible to keep changing the water so much you preven the tank from cycling correctly. Daily water changes should only be done if you are cycling or have really sensitive fish like Discus in some situations. You need to find a simple routine for what works with the fish you have and stick with it. I listed off what works for me, maybe some of it will work for you.

 

[Kwenbee]

Okay...I moved him back. The temp in the 1 gallon was about 80 when I moved him (it's in a very warm section of the house...close to the dryer which has been running, so the tank stays warm...hence the reason I didn't have a heater when I should have).

I was feeling rather guilty about him being all alone in that tank anyway...he didn't mean to kill the fish, I'm sure...is it possible he was chasing them and nipped not realizing it? I don't know. Plus, the warmer water to prevent ich may make them a bit more agitated?

I hadn't been doing the daily water changes until the cold wave struck on Sunday. I'm probably going overboard trying to keep these fish okay.

I've just searched through some of the gallery pictures and I realize we probably need more plants...our guys just don't have places to hide other than the clam shell I boiled and placed in the bottom, leaning against another figure. Along that line...is there any reason we can't boil shells (we live 20 minutes from the ocean) and put them in the tanks? This one was one my daughter had on her dresser for years.

And, to be fair to the danio, we lost a neon in the first batch immediately after we got him in November (also from Walmart). And it IS possible the guppy's fin ALWAYS looked like that.

So, basically, I should do nothing about the discolored water (cloudiness) for now...it will clear itself up? All of our fish are very small right now (except the blackfins). Even the guppy is less than 1/4" long, so I think my bioload may not be all that bad right now. I know it will increase as the fish grow, and as I've said, we have intentions of getting a bigger tank very soon (come on warm weather and yard sales!)

In fact, my stepdaughter had a neighbor who had a 55 gallon for sale...he's moving and can't take it, but he's a dirtball and I was afraid I'd bring some unwanted critters in with it...maybe I'll see if he still has it and get it cleaned up and set up....it can sit in the garage until I can get it the way I want it.

 

[QTOFFER]

"I don't know...I SAW the danio go after the guppy.....is it possible he was chasing them and nipped not realizing it? I don't know. Plus, the warmer water to prevent ich may make them a bit more agitated?"

Although danios are considered to be peaceful fish, it IS possible that yours may be more aggressive than most. And yes, the warmer temps will raise their metabolism and certainly make the fish more excitable - good call!


"I've just searched through some of the gallery pictures and I realize we probably need more plants...our guys just don't have places to hide other than the clam shell I boiled and placed in the bottom, leaning against another figure."

Plastic plants will help by giving the shy fish a place to hide out of sight of the bullies who will then think that they have driven the other fish away. They will also help the fish become accustomed to the noise and activity that we humans generate while they are just trying to relax.
I didn't notice the clamshell - could be problematic for two reasons: A fish could get trapped underneath it if it were to slip away from the figurine. Also, real seashells are made of calcium carbonate which will slowly dissolve and raise your tankwater's hardness and pH. As an alternative, you could lay a piece of slate across two interesting stones (boiled and scrubbed) to provide a nice cave.

HTH

 

[ScottS]

You're getting some great advice, which is why I love this site. Just to reiterate, I'm skeptical that the danio is a killer. Just about any fish will opportunistically eat out the stomach of a dead fish, so I wouldn't be quick to think there's a predator in the tank. Small tetras are very susceptible to stress, which your tank is obviously enduring.

As mentioned by several people, stability is definitely needed first and foremost, hence the multiple recommendations for changing just 25% of the water once a week (unless you're fighting ich) at the most. Also, that's why you should reuse your filter pad.

And one last thing to reinforce, I'd take out the shell. As noted, shells and corals can do bad things to a tank's chemistry. For plants in a ten, I'd think 4-5 plants depending on size would provide good cover for the types of fish you have. Just don't bunch them so tightly you can't clean around them or the wish can't swim through them.

We're all certainly hoping the best for you! Good luck!

 

[mortiss]

as for the "dirtball's" 55 gal. - you'd be amazed at what a little bit of bleach can do for it. It'd be pretty easy to clean up with ni nasties left and it is WAY easier to keep water params good in a larger tank thank in the small ones. Go for the 55 if it's a good deal. They're pretty spendy in the stores.

 

[Kwenbee]

I added about a tablespoon of salt last night. Today, everyone seems much friendlier. The guppy is down on the bottom, swimming with the danio and the neons are schooling normally. The blackfins are begging for food, as usual everytime I walk up to the tank, and the cloudiness even seems a bit better.

I didn't check the ammonia or nitrites today. I'm going to wait til tomorrow and see what happens.

Even Bill seems much happier, swimming all around his new tank, and dancing when we come up to the tank.

I still want to get rid of the algae bloom, but covering the tank is really not an option. I think I might look into the corner filter that was recommended and see how that works. I am not really impressed with the cheesy filter that came with the tank anyway.

 

[Kwenbee]

Well, we just returned from Petsmart with a new smaller gravel vac (for the 5 gallon), several new plants and a little figurine for the 10 gallon tank. We did add one platy to the 5 gallon betta tank BUT THAT WAS IT!

When we arrived home, it looked like Bill the Betta had built a bubble nest! That's the first time he did, so I guess he really is happier in his new home! However, when I just went to check, the bubbles had gone away, so maybe it was something else that caused the cluster of bubbles.

Anyway, everyone is getting along well and swimming all over the tank now, so I guess whatever happened to the danio and neon yesterday must have been natural and not the work of a serial killer danio. Of course, my daughter is annoyed with me for moving Moon the danio into the one gallon. "Mom, he was punished for something he didn't even do!" Wish the d**ned fish could talk!

I am definitely now in the market for a 55 gallon, so if you know of anyone who lives in our state who wants to unload one, please let me know! Gonna check with the stepdaughter tomorrow (I'm also gonna ask her husband who owns a construction business to build me a specialized stand that will hold all of our tanks....storage on the bottom, then 55 gallon in center, then 10/5 gallon sized spaces on top)

 

[indrani987]

Kwenbee,

I'm a beginner too, but I thought I might be able to offer my opinons on the danios and the betta and the 1 gallon tank.

Though I had read there was a risk that danios might nip a betta's fins to shreds, or eat up all his food before he could get to it, I'd also read that sometimes they get along fine, so I tried it and it worked. The key, I've found, with the danios is that if you have more than one, they will just chase each other and leave the other tank mates alone. Have at least 3, so that one doesn't end up being the perpetually chased one. The chasing is normal behavior for them. It's fun to watch when they're just chasing eachother, cuz then it looks playful, not harassing like when they go after less hyper fish!

As for the betta, I think I got lucky that they didn't nip his fins, cuz when I introduced him they were terrified of him. I was also lucky that the betta was very mellow and didn't care about the danios, and was also greedy enough to get his share of the food!

Part of the problem with agression I think also depends on whether you're crowding the fish - if I had the danios in the with betta in a 5 gallon, I think I may have had some more problems - in the 10 gallon, everyone had enough personal territory so they didn't feel stressed. I figure over-crowding for fish must be like how it would be for us if we had to share an apartment with lots of other people - a higher likelihood of stress, frustration, and thus snapping cuz we don't have enough privacy and personal space.

As for the 1 gallon - that really is really small, I would think you could keep 1 fish max, or some african dwarf frogs. But I can tell you from experience that it is really good to have an empty 1 gallon "hospital" for when you suddenly need to isolate a fish. It's good you've got that handy.

Here's the happy troop I had for my 10 gallon (till my poor betta passed away): 3 zebra danios, 1 betta, 1 african dwarf frog, 1 ivory snail. I've heard some species of snails eat up live plants, luckily I found that my ivory left them alone. Oh, also about the algae bloom - I don't think the algae eaters can eat it till it starts sticking to the glass and other aquarium objects. Could be wrong about that though.

Oh, and about Walmart. I think with any fish store, just check out the fish there in the tank. Are the tanks kept well, or are they dirty? If you see any lethargic ones, or dead or sickly ones in the tank, then you know there may be a risk of getting a sick fish. hope this helps!

~indrani

 

[Kwenbee]

Well, I was too late...the dirtball has moved and my stepdaughter has no idea where he went, so no good deal on that fish tank, so I'll start scanning the classifieds and hitting yardsales when the weather gets better. I looked at Petsmart yesterday, and the tank alone wasn't way too expensive...it would be all the paraphernalia I'd need (hood, filters, heaters, gravel, etc...) so if I can eliminate spending a fortune on the tank, I could get exactly what I want!