Fish suggestions

[Kwenbee]

Well, now I have more questions....you all are going to be so sick of me and my questions...

We now have the up and running 10 gallon with healthy, happy fish. One new guppy seems to be surface hovering, but so did his recently deceased predecessor, so I figure it's a guppy thing, I just don't understand. We are planning to add some otto's this weekend (thanks Alli) to keep the bottom clean.

We have the newly installed 5 gallon that right now only houses Bill the Betta. He will be getting a few friends this weekend as well because I don't think the tank will cycle well with just him in it. Since I am now an expert (ha ha) at cycling tanks, I realize water changes are in my future with this tank, and I know not to add too many fish. I kind of am leaning toward glowlights and corys because I know they are small.

Now, and please don't tell me nothing because I hate seeing it sit empty, the 1 gallon that used to house Bill the Betta needs some tenants. Any suggestions on small guys who would be okay with no heater and no filter. I plan to bring it to my office, which is a bit chilly, so I need some guys who can deal with colder temps. If none exist, I'll leave the tank setup in my kitchen at home.

 

[Fruitbat]

Kwenbee....

Hmmmm....a tiny tank with no filtration and no heater in a chilly office. Try as I might I can't think of a single type of tropical fish that would do well under those conditions. In fact...I can't think of any non-tropical fish that would do well under those conditions either. You might consider putting a plant or two in it (I'm assuming you will have some sort of light on it) and housing a couple of small shrimp like ghost shrimp. Could be an interesting tank!

 

[tkos]

Yeah, that 1 gallon really is too small for anything. Perhaps you could tuck it away and save it as a quarentine tank in case one of your fish gets sick.

Otherwise I would add a big apple snail to it and watch him. A betta is the only fish that sort of hovers around a tank and can get away with smaller surrounding, but it still needs some heat.

 

[grimlock3000]

"We now have the up and running 10 gallon with healthy, happy fish. One new guppy seems to be surface hovering, but so did his recently deceased predecessor, so I figure it's a guppy thing, I just don't understand. We are planning to add some otto's this weekend (thanks Alli) to keep the bottom clean."

Everytime I have seen a Guppy float and then die it was the result of bad water conditions. It is not "a Guppy thing" when they die a few days after you get them usually. Since you just lost a bunch of fish and bought a bunch more, and are now losing those, I suspect the water quality is bad. What type of fish and how many of each are in that 10g currently? Also, what are the ammonia and nitrite readings. I would say do not purchase additional fish until the 10g stabilizes. Otos are not exactly good bottom cleaners a lot of the time either. Most I have seen always stick on the glass and plants. They are very sensitive and well.

"We have the newly installed 5 gallon that right now only houses Bill the Betta. He will be getting a few friends this weekend as well because I don't think the tank will cycle well with just him in it. Since I am now an expert (ha ha) at cycling tanks, I realize water changes are in my future with this tank, and I know not to add too many fish. I kind of am leaning toward glowlights and corys because I know they are small."

I would not put Cories in a tank that small, they like to move around a lot. Just my opinion. Maye a few White Cloud Minnows would be fun.

"Now, and please don't tell me nothing because I hate seeing it sit empty, the 1 gallon that used to house Bill the Betta needs some tenants. Any suggestions on small guys who would be okay with no heater and no filter. I plan to bring it to my office, which is a bit chilly, so I need some guys who can deal with colder temps. If none exist, I'll leave the tank setup in my kitchen at home."

As stated above, that is really not suitable for much. Read up on Apple Snails here:

http://www.applesnail.net/

I do not think one would have a good life living in a tank that small.

 

[ferret]

I believe she meant that the guppies stay in the upper range of the tank. Mine always have, and I've got a tank full of them..

The 1 gallon would be suitable for a dwarf african frog. Do some research though, I can't remember their temperature range. I know I've read they can be unheated, but I can't remember the low temperature cut off point. You could get 2 or 3 in a tank that size. Daily water change required.

 

[grimlock3000]

When I think of hovering I think of the fish just sitting at the surface of the water like it is floating without any effort

 

[Kwenbee]

Sorry...guess I wasn't clear about Swimmy the Guppy. The first guppy, of course, was a casualty of the new Ice Age coming to our tank. He was very happy and healthy and his tailfin had just started to get big and fluffy. He liked to hover around the top of the tank, usually near the filter. He swam to the bottom as well, and other places around the tank, but his location of choice was near the surface. He ate fine as does the new guppy.

For the record, we did not "lose a bunch of fish, buy a bunch more and are now losing those". We lost an algae eater last night, but he was one of the poor frigid fish from the heat incident on Sunday. He wasn't new. The only fish we lost that was new was a guppy we bought at Walmart who was dead the next day. Since my water levels are fine, I am sure this fish wasn't healthy when we got him. We put him in the tank at around 4 PM on Monday and he was dead at 5:30 AM on Tuesday. I returned him to Walmart and got my money back.

I truly realize that the tanks we have are small. But it seems to me a 5 gallon tank should be big enough for more than one fish! As I stated, what I put in the 1 gallon I know can't stay there long and it will mean lots of water changes, which I'm prepared to do.

After posting about putting the tank in my office, I decided against that. My office is like a meat locker right now (only 15 degrees outside with a wind chill of -10) so there is no way I'll be able to keep up with a fish tank. So it will remain in my kitchen.

I'm headed to the fish store this weekend to see what sort of filtration device I can find for the 1 gallon and if there is any type of fish that can use it.

I did think about putting it aside for a quarantine tank, but how would I keep the water cycled without fish? The plants and ghost shrimp idea is kind of a neat one. I am absolutely NOT interested in frogs, but thanks for the thought.

Right now, we have one guppy, three zebra danios, five neon tetras, three black finned tetras in the 10 gallon. All the fish are VERY small, so small I'm afraid I'll suck one of the tetras or danios up in the gravel vacuum.

I am extremely diligent about water testing...to the point of being obsessive and am alos diligent about water changes and gravel vacuums. My nitrites and ammonia are at 0 right now (even though the water is STILL cloudy for some reason). The nitrites and ammonia in the 5 gallon, of course, read 0 today, but I know it hasn't cycled yet. That's my concern...with just one little fish in a 5 gallon tank, isn't it going to take awhile to cycle?

So, now I'm being told that ottos aren't bottom feeders? Jeez Louise, this hobby is confusing. I need to add some bottom feeders because the pig blackfins spit lots of shredded food out while they are eating and the neons just can't keep up with them. What suggestions? We had albino corydoras catfish -- one was a casualty of the antarctic water temperatures, the other died several weeks ago of unknown causes. They didn't do such a hot job of cleaning up the bottom of the tank, but they were very small. Ghost shrimp? Snails? The snails may be a hard sell...my daughter doesn't care for them much in the stores.

If I overload the smaller tanks, that just means my 55 gallon arrives sooner! Just kidding...just kidding!

 

[Kwenbee]

Oh my God! I swear...I will never buy another fish at Walmart! I went home at lunch and one of the new danios was dead...it looked like his head was all chewed up...would one of my other fish have done that? My daughter noticed this morning that his mouth looked "big", but it looked like the other three to me. He was swimming normally and eating normally.

All my levels are FINE. What in the world is going on with this tank???? We went for two months with ammonia levels in the 2.0 range, then nitrites in the 2.0 levels without losing a fish. Since the levels have gotten normal, we've lost a catfish, a brand new guppy and now a danio (not counting the frozen ones).

I am definitely heading to the fish store this weekend to ask some questions. I still have a cloudiness issue...could it be related the the two recent deaths? The guppy was only in the tank 12 hours. The danio four days. We have three blackfinned tetras, five neon tetras, two more zebra danios and a guppy in this tank.

You know...it just struck me...I bought the first set of guppies from Walmart and all but one died of fin rot. I did the antibiotic treatment for that and it cleared up the last one fine. Could this be some sort of bacterial infection that Walmart's fish have inflicted on my tank? If so, should I dig out the neons and the remaining guppy and quarantine them or is it too late?

The tank temp is still at 86.

 

[ferret]

Walmart baaaad

 

[grimlock3000]

I was not trying to bash on your earlier, I was just trying to encourage you to not get any more fish until the situation stablizes with the tank you have currently. Sorry if it came out wrong.

Ok, you have a bunch of stuff going on...

"We have three blackfinned tetras, five neon tetras, two more zebra danios and a guppy in this tank."

That is a full fish load for a 10g, if not overstocked. Getting more fish is not a good idea when you have had some trouble and have that many fish in a 10g. Even with good maintenence, having too many fish in a tank can cause them to stress out and get sick even if the water is OK. If you do want more fish, please get a cheap sponge filter to help with your bio filtering and make sure you have a lot of plants for fish to hide.

You can get bad fish from anywhere. Some Wal Mart have well maintained fish departments that make many LFSs look bad. Others (like the ones around me) are where fish go to die. Wherever you go, the most important thing to do it look at all of the tanks and see how well maintained they are. QTing new fish is a good idea too, if possible. I have been in Wal Marts I would never buy a fish from, and been in "good" LFSs that I would never buy a fish from either

It is possible that the Wal Mart fish infected your fish. I would not bother QTing the fish now, it would likely just stress them even more getting moved around. If they start to show signs of any sickness, QT them as needed.

Cloudiness is caused by one of two things. Bacteria or algae. What can happen is that you end up with extra nutrients in the water, and then the bacteria or algae grows right in the water stream. The bacteria that processes the ammonia and nitrites can live in the water stream if there is enough food to support it. It is possible to have a cycled tank with cloudy water. If it is greenish at all, it is an algae bloom. White cloudiness is bacterial. To clear it up, reduce feedings, do water changes. reduce fish load. With algae blooms, you can leaves the lights off for a while as well.

Next, why is your tank at 86F? That is very warm unless you are clearing up Ich.

 

[Kwenbee]

I know we're kind of pushing the bioload. And I certainly didn't think you were busting my chops...I thought maybe I hadn't been clear in my post.

I don't plan to add any more fish until I figure out what happened to the danio. I do want to go to the fishstore to get some advice about the betta tank and what I should put in with him (I know his tank won't cycle with just him in it, so I'd like one or two very small fish).

Anyway, not sure if you saw my valuable lesson post or not, but we had a sudden drop in temperature in the tank on Sunday (furnace didn't work; below 0 temps outside all day Saturday; temp in tank around 40 degrees) and we lost 6 of our fish to the cold. Because I was afraid of an Ick outbreak, I posted here to ask what to look out for. Obviously, there was some sort of major malfunction with the algae eater because he literally went insane in the tank. I attempted to quarantine him, but it was too late and he died last night. The advice on this board was to turn the heat on the tank up to 86 degrees to ward off an attack of Ich. I added salt on Sunday because I was pretty sure the poor survivors were a bit stressed, but I only added 1/2 teaspoon. I've done two water changes since then, and they included gravel vacs, so I wonder if I need to add some more salt.

As I said, I know the bioload is getting close to max. I don't have a problem moving some of the 10 gallon fish into the 5 gallon with the betta, but I don't know which ones will be compatible with him. I know the neons and the blackfins are known to be fin nippers. I know that bettas sometimes mistake guppies for other bettas. That leaves the danios, but have found nothing that tells me if danios and bettas get along.

I also don't have a problem with daily water changes. It's become part of my morning routine now and they guys and I have lovely conversations since everyone else in my house is sleeping when I do my "fish thing" as my family calls it. That's why overstocking my tank a bit doesn't worry me too much. I also know that we will be investing in a 55 gallon tank very soon (I'm itching for those angel fish) but until I get this tank settled down, my husband is NEVER gonna agree to investing in a bigger one.

The cloudiness has been in the water for a month or more. It clears up somewhat and then comes back. Mind you, I have done DAILY water changes since November. I usually vacuum some of the gravel every time I do a change. I didn't get a chance to take the picture at lunch, but will try to post one tonight. Could it be that we need a more powerful filter. Ours came with the tank and is a Whisper HOB filter...no idea the model or anything.

Now, I did change the carbon and filter on Sunday after the cold water episode. The filter was filthy with a bunch of green and brown nasty gunk. The filter recommends changing it every four weeks, but advice on this board was to leave it alone since most of the bacteria is in the filter. I was just afraid with the dead fish in the tank, there were major organisms that could cause more problems.

As far as Walmart, the fish department is very clean and the tanks seem well kept. The fish LOOK healthy when we buy them and the two clerks who work in that department seem to know what they are doing. However, I have no idea where these fish are coming from and everytime I've bought fish there, at least one has died within a few days. As I said, the four guppies I bought all ended up with finrot within a week of bringing them home. I haven't had a tank to use for quarantine until now, and all I have is the little one gallon tank that we moved the betta out of. It is hooked up and running, but it is empty right now. I've had fairly good luck buying fish at Petsmart, but I've also heard horror stories about them.

I've made up my mind that we aren't adding any fish for the 10 gallon until I get this cloudiness taken care of and the rest of the fish remain ALIVE!

 

[ScottS]

If you're struggling with keeping fish alive, you will not keep Otos successfully. They are hard to keep alive in an established, healthy tank. 1) They prefer the company of other Otos and 2) they need a lot of algae. A lot of algae and a few Otos doesn't work with either of your tanks.

I know you don't want to hear it, but give up on the 1 gallon unless you can keep it in a warm room with a single Betta.

The ten, as previosuly stated, is about full. At best, if you have good filtration, I'd add a couple small cories like the Pandas.

For the five, Bettas aren't always the best tank mates. Again, I'd stick with some cories who'll stay out of the way. Maybe get a different Cory species for this tank for a variety. Tetras should be kept in at least a group of 5, which is again, pushing your limit for that tank. It's not beyond a Betta to kill small tetras.

 

[ScottS]

"Now, I did change the carbon and filter on Sunday after the cold water episode. The filter was filthy with a bunch of green and brown nasty gunk. The filter recommends changing it every four weeks, but advice on this board was to leave it alone since most of the bacteria is in the filter. I was just afraid with the dead fish in the tank, there were major organisms that could cause more problems."

Sort of. Don't change filters, but do rinse off the filter using tank water you've changed out. The daily water changes may be a bit excessive as well. I understand the necessity when you're cycling the tank with fish in there, but if you're now cycled, I think you could cut back to 25% once a week and be just as well off.

 

[Kwenbee]

So the filter should look disgusting? I really think a new filter might be the answer. I just posted photos to the gallery, but it will be a little while before they can be viewed, but here is the side view of the tank, if that helps.

I also have a few of the front of the tank and the cloudiness is VERY clear.

We came home to a missing neon. Missing. Not dead. Just missing. He was there at lunch and he was there this morning AFTER my gravel vacuum (my first thought). There is absolutely NO sign of this fish anywhere...

No more fish for the 10 gallon. I just have to hold off until we can get the 55. I think I will get a few corys to add to Bill's tank. I might go ahead and do the plant thing with some ghost shrimp in the one gallon. I need some practice with live plants anyway before we get the 55.

We might do another betta in it for awhile or maybe even a female. Right now it's just set up and running if I have to yank a sick fish out of the 10 gallon.

 

[Kwenbee]

Here's a distant view of the 10 gallon. You can clearly see the cloudiness in this photo.

 

[Allivymar]

Hrmm. You mentioned somewhere it looks greenish from the long view and I can see it in the first pic. Welcome to the world of algae blooms *sigh*

Its primary cause is too much light; usually sunlight. How long do you leave the tank lights on? A few days with the tank in complete dark (and I mean complete; wrap it in a towel and sneak the food in quickly) can rid a tank of a algae bloom if its not too bad.

Reducing nutrients for the algae to feed on also helps; if the fish are well fed they won't starve in a few days. You could combine the 2 and that MAY rid the tank of the bloom.

Or, if you're like me and the algae bloom kicks in while your away, and you come back to a tank so green you cannot see the fish, a diatom filter is the only way to go. Its a special filter that removes REALLY small bits of detritus from the tank and can remove the algae spores (its usually used to "polish" the water in a tank. I borrowed one for Madasafish, and what a difference. Of course, I didn't let it run long enough and had to use it again a week later (one needs to get ALL the algae spores out, but I was impatient). I wound up buying one for $68 for future use (hopefully I won't need it but...I can't keep madasa's LOL). These are the pics of before n after the diatom filter so you can see HOW bad it was, and how well the diatom filter worked; yours is obviously no where as severe: http://www.myaquaria.com/gallery/algaebloom

As long as the tanks are cycled, I would suggest trying the combo of the first 2, unless you can find someone to lend you a diatom filter. I realise it will be difficult, as you need to keep an eye on them after the heater debacle; there must be some way to peek in without exposing the tank to any light...I wonder if a red light might be ok? I hate to suggest a piece of equipment that you may use infrequently, especially when its not a cheap one.

 

[Kwenbee]

WHAT?? An ALGAE bloom? I had TWO catfish AND an algae eater in that tank. And they FOUGHT over the algae chips but they didn't eat the algae that was already in the tank???? Holy toledo!

We leave the lights on all day, turning them off around 6 every night and back on around 6 in the morning. There is no way my daughter will agree to wrapping a towel around the tank and not feeding her fish...and goodness knows I'll never get her out of bed in the morning if she can't feed her babies.

The expense doesn't really bother me at this point (over $200 for two "free" goldfish). We'll see about the filter.

Now..as to my other problem with the dead fish. I mentioned that we got home to a missing neon...well, he has surfaced...dead...with a very large chunk out of his belly. He was obviously bitten and I truly think it's a serial killer...I think the killer hid his dead body until he was done with him and then left him out for us to find.

I stood and watched the tank and noticed that the largest danio is picking on the remaining danio and on the guppy. The guppy may even have a bite out of his tail. Is this normal behavior for zebra danios? We know it's not the blackfinned tetras because they've been with neons for their whole life and NEVER bothered them.

This also may explain what happened to the danio that we found dead at lunch. As I said, it appeared his head was missing.

So now what do I do with the serial killer? Do I move him in with Bill the Betta? I read on a betta site that danios and bettas can be housed together. Or should Moon the Danio (hey, she's 7...she picks the names) be moved to the 1 gallon in a serious time out?

 

[DaPony87]

I suggest that you really upgrade your tank up to more gallons maybe a 29 or so? And yes it is pushing it with more than one fish in a 5 gallon, its not very big at all. I wouldnt consider snails much of a bottom feeder at all and although u may think cory cats arent good at being bottom feeders they're your best choice next to maybe a kuhli loach, as for otto cats theyre an algae eater thatll eat off plants and glass

 

[Kerrinne]

Just as an FYI - don't put tetras and bettas together. Larger tetras (like my Buenos Aries) are major fin nippers. The smaller ones, as someone pointed out, will likely become betta food (perhaps in retaliation for the fin nippers!).

When I had to house my betta with some of my other fish for a day, he did really well with the danios. So I will attest to that being ok - at least for giant danios. They were , however, just too hyper for my betta's taste. So they were separated. So watch your stress level on your betta if you put a danio in with the betta.

 

[Kwenbee]

Well, I put the danio in a plastic baggie and hung it in the betta tank. The betta WAS NOT impressed. He flared up at the bag and the danio sort of charged at the betta. So....the danio is in time out. He is alone in the one gallon tank for now. I plan to call Walmart tomorrow and see if they will take him back.