Goldfish! - Newbie question: Gravel

[Arete]

Greetings,

In a haphazard manner I have become the owner of three goldfish. My parents had a pond outside and it was not deep enough to survive the winter without freezing. My wife decided that it would be better to have the fish in an aquarium inside, as they'd be much safer than the pond(predator animals) and we could enjoy them.

The tank they were originally placed in was WAY too small and I have now upgraded to a 50g tank. I have done enough research on the set up for this tank, and unfortunately I was not able to do a fishless cycle, so we're going through the process with the three fish inside the tank already.(the other tank was TOO small and it would of killed them to leave them in there much longer).

So, to really get to my point...

There is one common fantail and two Ryukin's to the best of my knowledge. I have the wonderful multi-colored gravel from Petsmart, the pink/blue kind. The problem I have noticed is that these goldfish truly love to gulp up a few pieces at a time and spit them out...usually... Last night for the first time I observed one of the goldfish put a piece in its mouth, and not spit it out, swallowing it(at least what it seemed like).

I worry because it can't be good for them to swallow gravel... so...

My question is this: Is this normal? I realize the picking up and tasting gravel is a way for them to naturally suck off food bits, or whatever they enjoy it for, but actually EATING it?

Secondly, What should I look for to see if there is an actual problem with the fish now?

Thirdly, if I did decide to remove the gravel what could I replace it with, and whats the best way to actually get gravel out of the aquarium? The aquarium is 48 long, 18 tall, 12 wide. I think its 4lbs of gravel on the bottom of it(its a thin layer).

My other question is more of an observation: Last night I placed a black background on the aquarium in a DIY manner. Its crafting sheetboard which I affixed to the back of the aquarium. The thing I noticed though is ever since I placed the background on the aquarium the goldfish started swimming up towards the surface of the water when before they really only swam mostly in a horizontal motion. Just wondering if anyone else ever noticed this?

Thanks alot, and I'm grateful for this forum!

 

[bruinsbro1997]

to AA!

Greetings,

In a haphazard manner I have become the owner of three goldfish. My parents had a pond outside and it was not deep enough to survive the winter without freezing. My wife decided that it would be better to have the fish in an aquarium inside, as they'd be much safer than the pond(predator animals) and we could enjoy them.

The tank they were originally placed in was WAY too small and I have now upgraded to a 50g tank. I have done enough research on the set up for this tank, and unfortunately I was not able to do a fishless cycle, so we're going through the process with the three fish inside the tank already.(the other tank was TOO small and it would of killed them to leave them in there much longer).
Are these common/comet goldfish? Those won't even fit in a 50 Gallon long term. I hope you can put them in the pond very soon!
For cycling with fish: read these:
1.http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/fish-in-cycling-step-over-into-the-dark-side-176446.html
2.http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...g-but-I-already-have-fish-What-now/Page2.html
So, to really get to my point...

There is one common fantail and two Ryukin's to the best of my knowledge. I have the wonderful multi-colored gravel from Petsmart, the pink/blue kind. The problem I have noticed is that these goldfish truly love to gulp up a few pieces at a time and spit them out...usually... Last night for the first time I observed one of the goldfish put a piece in its mouth, and not spit it out, swallowing it(at least what it seemed like).

I worry because it can't be good for them to swallow gravel... so...

My question is this: Is this normal? I realize the picking up and tasting gravel is a way for them to naturally suck off food bits, or whatever they enjoy it for, but actually EATING it?
I think goldfish are known to swallow gravel, however I'm not sure. You don't NEED a substrate. There are plenty of tanks that are bare-bottomed. A safer option might be sand.
Secondly, What should I look for to see if there is an actual problem with the fish now?
I would suggest you
a) Look at your water quality. I suggest get your water tested by a local fish store that tests water with an API Freshwater Master Test kit, or even better get the kit yourself and test your water, especially for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.
b) Give us a bit more information. How often do you change the water? What is your filtration?
Thirdly, if I did decide to remove the gravel what could I replace it with, and whats the best way to actually get gravel out of the aquarium? The aquarium is 48 long, 18 tall, 12 wide. I think its 4lbs of gravel on the bottom of it(its a thin layer).
Drain the tank, put the fish in a temporary bucket, and scoop the gravel out with a clean dustpan or something of the sort. Then put in whatever substrate you want for the fish (you could always use fine 1mm gravel or sand, however I don't know if changing the substrate is necessary so I won't say.
My other question is more of an observation: Last night I placed a black background on the aquarium in a DIY manner. Its crafting sheetboard which I affixed to the back of the aquarium. The thing I noticed though is ever since I placed the background on the aquarium the goldfish started swimming up towards the surface of the water when before they really only swam mostly in a horizontal motion. Just wondering if anyone else ever noticed this?

Thanks alot, and I'm grateful for this forum!

I posted above in the bold underlined red. Hope that helps you out!

 

[jlk]

Hi & welcome!!! Just for future knowledge, you do not need to move the fish indoors in the winter & its actually pretty stressful for them to do this. You only need a pond de-icer to prevent the pond from freezing over & to allow gasses to escape. Ok, do you have an API freshwater master test kit? If not, please get one as soon as possible! Your goldfish going to the surface is indicative that theres a water quality issue going on. Since you did not properly cycle this tank, its very likely there are high ammonia and/or nitrite occurring. In addition, goldfish have very high oxygen needs- please add additional aeration (bubblers, airstones, or powerheads) to help increase their oxygen levels. Heavy filtration is also necessary- minimum of 10x the size of this tank due to goldies messiness & high bioload. In respect to the gravel, yes, goldfish in their constant search for food will constantly pick at the gravel & are at risk of swallowing/choking on it if its small enough to fit in their mouths. The best options here would be very large gravel, pool filter sand, or a bare bottom tank. Please do not hesitate to ask any questions!!

 

[Arete]

I think my post perhaps gave the wrong reflection on my behalf.

I have purchased this 50g tank along with two Eheim Cannister Filters(easy 35's) which filter about 120g per hour each. I have aeration(three round air stones). I have the Master API Kit in which I am testing the water frequently. This aquarium is literally DAYS old so I have not done a water change yet. The readings on the water are 0/0/under 20.

My only real concern at the moment was the gravel as I would of hated to lose these fish because of something as stupid as that. I've grown attached to them and the amount of work I've put into setting this thing up!

The fish themselves are looking quite healthy, the observation about the fish swimming upwards is not that they linger at the surface, its that they are actually going vertical from time to time instead of mainly sticking to a horizontal path, and this JUST started as soon as I put a background on the Aquarium, is all.

I will look into larger pieces for substrate as I'm definitely not attached to the gravel we have currently and then look into transferring them to another temporary tank while I scoop out the gravel.

 

[jlk]

Im glad your testing with a proper kit! I would not be concerned with their swimming as long as there is sufficient aeration & you stay on top of your water changes & testing. Once your tank is cycled, you will still need to do 50% pwcs atleast once a week to keep your nitrates under control- twice a week is better. While canister filters are great, you are still under-filtered for this size of a tank & stocking with goldfish.You realistically need something in the 500gph range- two 120gph filters is not going to be sufficient. Im glad you are doing what is best for guys & i wish you the best of luck!

 

[Maxkolbe]

Our friends goldfish also puts gravel in his mouth and the only problem they ever had was when he started to choke once. To my knowledge they performed some kind of fish CPR to get the gravel out and other than being in too small a tank he is fine now.

 

[Maxkolbe]

If you're looking for a some more filtration you can get the marine land penguin 350 for a little over twenty dollars on Amazon.

 

[glassbird]

Hi & welcome!!! Just for future knowledge, you do not need to move the fish indoors in the winter & its actually pretty stressful for them to do this. You only need a pond de-icer to prevent the pond from freezing over & to allow gasses to escape.

Although the common goldfish might be able to survive outside, it would be helpful to know how big the original pond was, if it was a hard-sided pond, where the pond was located (hard winters vs. easy winters) and how deep it was. A small, hard-sided pond in an area where the water would freeze all the way down would be very hard for any fish to survive, even with a de-icer. On the other hand, a large mud-bottomed pond in an area with milder winters would be more survivable, esp. with a de-icer.

No matter what the variables, however, I wonder if the ryukins would survive in any area prone to any sort of freezing. They are considerable less comfortable in freezing temps, and also are slow swimmers. They would be easy pickings for a passing racoon or cat if slowed down further by cold temps.

 

[jlk]

Very true! My fault for not mentioning the various variables that come into play when over-wintering any fish but i believe Arete is seeking advice on his/her tank situation & not pond issues.

 

[Arete]

Thanks for the responses. I am looking into getting another filter in the future to add to my existing setup. I will let my parents know about the pond advice for their future pond adventures. For me its just the aquarium.

Now I checked out the penguin filters and I noticed the filters come with carbon. Somewhere i my reading I believe I remember reading that carbon is not a permanent thing and should really only be used for specific instances such as filtering out medicine in a quarintine tank.

Is there a recommendation for future filters? Right now I have 200gph with two Eheim ecco pro 35. I cant spend alot more money as i have spent too much already! Are the penguins even with their mention of carbon in their filters fine?

Also, with so many filters will water flow be a problem for the fancies? Right now they seem to take breaks every jow and then by sitting in one spot on the bottom of the aquarium. The water flow isnt that bad, at least to me and I have tried to position the flow to land on decorations to diffuse it but if I add another filtration to getto 500gph then it might cause an issue?

I have attached a photo. In the top left and right corners you can see the intake and next to them the ouput. The hang on tank pengun would have to go somewhere in the middle.

Edited to add: wow, Ipads take great pictures, Eh?

 

[jlk]

Your tank & flow look fine! Your fancies will adjust- they are used to being in a pond with little water disturbance compared to an aquarium. My tanks have powerheads in addition to mutiple filters & my guys & girls never have an issue swimming. Granted, they have never lived in a pond! You can look into a reasonably priced HOB on amazon- i personally like the emperors (400gph) or the aqueons (400gph). The aqueons are smaller in size than the emperors & both run around $35-40 with free shipping. The carbon filters are not necessary- there are various options to consider using in place of them. Aquarium sponges/foam inserts i find inexpensive & last indefinitely. Do some research on what would work best for you!

 

[Arete]

I will look into one of the 400gph emporers perhaps. The sponge filters themselves are sold by the filter maker or third party?

 

[jlk]

I use aquaclear 70 foam filter inserts. They are basically giant sponges & cut them to fit where ever i need one. They are inexpensive- @$5 for a box of 3. I know people use a variety of different things-this is just one option to consider.