HELP! Tank disintergrating

[fastfly48]

HELP!
I haven't had an easy (or anywhere close to easy) time with my tank since I got it 4 months ago. I read and memorized all the books and did my research but I still can't get things right. Either I have super bad luck (but that can't be, because luck doesn't exist in the world of aquriums!) or I'm just really bad at keeping an aqurium.
I'm nervous because I know I'm noy going to be able to spend this much time looking after my tank next year...if I still have one...
...and it's all turning me into a stressed out grump!

I came home from work tday (at the zoo) to find my tank in a mess...here area my problems...

My Bristle nose Pleco is near death. He isn't eating at all, I've put food right under his nose and he won't eat. He's jusk skin and bone now. Ive tried zuccini peas and others a few times but he won't eat...

My plants ( a plant forum topic I know...) are disintergrating and polluting my tank with masses of debris. I bought a pressurized CO2 set-up a week ago and since then my plants have melted away...turned into moosh. Also the leaves are being covered by some kind of algae. I add AZOO Chelated Ferrite liquid every week.
With the fert, C02 injection, the right lighiting, constant water tests and bi-weekly water changes I thought I was on the right track, but things just won't go right. All the plants I have bought from the lfs haven't grown...just melted away.

Ammonia is 0ppm (as always)
Nitrite: 0ppm (as always)
Nitrate: 5ppm
Ph:6.8ppm
AK: 3.75
Co2: about 11ppm
Lighting is at 2 watts per gallon (20 gallons)

Please help me!
I accept this isn't supposed to be easy, but it's getting rediculous...
I'm more than happy to put the work in, I'm just not getting anywhere with anything I do.
Hope you can help, and sorry for my dissmal aqurium keeping...
Ry.

 

[BrianNY]

It takes alot of patience to the whole high tech planted tank thing right Ry. Don't panic.

Three quick observations on the plant side. 1. I don't know what you're fertilizing with but I'm suspecting it contains iron. IMO iron should be used only as a last resort if the plants show an obvious iron deficiency. A tank high in iron can cause algae probs if the other nutrients are lacking. 2. Nitrates at 5ppm are rather light and can be causing some problems. I'd be looking to dose N to gradually get that up to 10-15ppm. 3. CO2 at 11ppm is also very light. Increase the bubble count til you're in the 30ppm range. Succesful planted tanks have so much to do with trial and error. Keep the faith.

BN plecs can be fragile. They are very susceptible to pH swings and don't do well when the pH drops quickly. I'm suspecting this is the problem as you're injecting CO2. What is the pH?

 

[workfortheman]

Ry, I wonder what kind of lighting you are using? is it 2 20watt strips of normal output fluorescents? what kelvin rating?

In addition to dosing more nitrates, try finding a fertilizer with potassium in it. this is a key macro nutrient, and can be purchased bulk from www.gregwatson.com in the form of K2SO4.

Is the 20 gallon tank a "high" or "low" type?

What species of plants have been dying? Have you identified any specific type of algae as of yet? could it be cyano-bacteria?

Hope we can help ya out!

 

[flamingonhot]

Don't worry..... I have a lot of luck with sw tanks but can't keep guppies to save my life lol.

When i used to have my planted tank I just increased the lighting and everything got better.

 

[fastfly48]

Hi guys.
Thank you sooooo much for your support.

Brian.
Thanks. i'll try not to panic...
I fertalize with AZOO Chelated Ferrite liquid. Yes it has iron. But I suspect not much else. Ah ha. That iron dosing might explain the algae on the leaves then ...

Dose Nitrate? Is that N? I though 5ppm was a little too low. I've never been able to get high Nitrates naturally.
More CO2? done. I've kept the bubble count conservative at just under a bubble a second, didn't want to startle the tank...
I'm afaid my poor BN pleco has gone. He was sooooo skiny.
My Ph is/was a hour ago 6.8ppm.
Once again thank you sooo much for helping me out. Your tanks are inspiring!

Ernie.
My lighting is one 40watt normall output Floro. I figure 400watts with 20g = 2 watts per gallon.
Potassium? I'll look for a fert. with some in it....I'll try anything!
My tank is about 30 inches long, 15 inches high and 13 inches wide.

Plants? I have...Wisteria ( the clippings form the shop are growing well, but now algae is starting to collect on leaves...the bunches I bought have dinintergrated) Java fern (so so), Some type of Hydro, Hydra something (stemmed plant with leaves like a java fern)...that's turned into mush with the leaves turning really dark green then just mushing.. some Bacomba? Suculent looking...thats going ok-ish....oh and a little java moss that won't grown or cling onto anything even though I''ve lacky banded it to rockes...

Hope you can help out too! I can't say thanks enough.
Should I just go out and buy a load of plants? Or would that be useless becasue I haven't fixed the problem? I guess/know so.
It's just that I keep hearing that you should go all out when planting, and I never did that. I feel sooooo inclined to just pull out the old/dying ones and start fresh...but that'd be silly, wouldn't it?

No i haven't identifyed the algae. It likes leaves...

Ry.

 

[fastfly48]

Don't worry..... I have a lot of luck with sw tanks but can't keep guppies to save my life lol.

When i used to have my planted tank I just increased the lighting and everything got better.

Just incease my lighting hey? Wouldn't that help out the Algae? Or not?
I'll try not to worry...I know it does no good for you.
I just need to get this right before I start Uni next year or I'll go mad!
Cheers.
Ry.

 

[workfortheman]

Yea, at that tank depth I would think a 40 watt bulb is enough to avoid wilting. It has some sort of reflector/hood on it?

I'd go with more co2, shoot for 30ppm as BrianNY said, and try to fertilize with something that contains both nitrogen and potassium (N and K).

Sorry to hear about the BN GL!

 

[Guest]

a highly planted tank does well with a little overstocking on the fish to provide plenyt of nitrates... or you could just dose nitrates of course, but adding more fish is always fuN!!!

 

[fastfly48]

Thaks alot for your help guys.

Ernie: Yes the light has a wooden hood over the top....looks swell!

Asheley Nicole: I'm aiming to get a highly planted tank with a little overstocking! That's like my big goal. I just need to figure out how to keep my plants alive so that I know that if/when I add more they too will survive...

What do you think could be causing the brown/orange algae on my leaves? It's now taking over my wisteria ...and it was actually doing well...

Well It's my day off, so I'm going to check out some different lfss....oh and syphon al the plant moosh in my tank...again! Doh.

Cheers.
Ry.

 

[rich311k]

Right now I would say increase the CO2 and then figure out what ferts you need. I would start with the N.

 

[Jchillin]

Just a final thought...in regard to maintainence. Are you doing deep gravel vacs?

 

[fastfly48]

Not really.
I've only really got one spot in my tank where I can gravel vac (a big open area in the middle, though this is where all the junk seems to pile up anyway).
When I do vac, I don't go all the way to the base, I just kind of vac the top couple of inches...I know I'm going deep when I start seeing dark green mist come up the syphon!
Or should I be going to the very bottom?

 

[Jchillin]

surface skimming is preferred. Root feeders thrive on the nutrients embedded in the gravel. No need to do deep vacs at all.

 

[fastfly48]

It doesn't matter anyway....

I've had enough, it's all making me feel sick and I can't get anything right.
I'm going to pull it apart and maybe start fresh.
No Plants will grow in my tank, the water is cloudy, algae eats my leaves, the plants area all turning to mush, my pleco died, the tank is a constant mess and it's painfull to look at it and think of it.
I'm sick of trying to make it work, when it simply doesn't want to.
This hooby's just eating all my time and all my money and I'm getting nothing in return.

Thanks for all your help guys but this has just become too much for me.
Nothing in my tanks getting better, things only seem to get worse. There aren't any answers and everything I try fails.
It makes me feel horrible and sour.

So sorry for bothering you all.
Signing out: Ry.

 

[An t-iasg]

Ry, I'm so sorry about the bristlenose pleco. One of my small plecos died too, awhile ago.

I'm sorry about your plants...but don't give up! Tear the tank down and start over if you want to. I'm tearing one of my tanks down for the second time in about a month. Here are the problems I've discovered in my tank and it may help you.

I had horrible algae, and I think it was cyanobacteria. It was dark and slimy and it would come out of the gravel like small pieces of green tissue paper. Is this what you mean when you say green mist comes up in your vac? This type of "algae" is actually a bacteria. It also thrives on low nitrates (my bio-load was very low and I didn't get the right dosing balance for this tank yet). I also had some "dead spots" as far as filter flow. I couldn't increase the water flow around the tank because the betta wouldn't like it. That's the primary reason why I am changing out this tank. Hopefully in the new tank, I'll have a better water flow, but the betta will still be happy. I also hope to figure out my nitrate balance. I did for my other two tanks, so I will for this one too! Like BrianNY said, a planted tank is often trial and error at first.

So for your tank, check your water flow and make sure the water flow from the filter reaches all areas of the tank. Like the others said, dose for nitrate and potassium. Potassium is not likely to cause algae in the tank if overdosed, but check out the stickys in this forum for fertilization help.

Try a "tank blackout" to control the algae - I wrapped newspapapers around my tank for 5 days. No peeking! I did take my one fish, a betta, out. When I removed the papers, I was amazed to see that my crypts had new leaves! I also used some erythromycin tablets to eliminate the cyanobacteria. I dropped them in the tank, let them dissolve, and wrapped the newspaper around the tank. 5 days later, the cyano was gone. Cyano has a bad odor, and I realized that the odor was gone! From my descriptions, if you think you have cyano, you could try this method too - the blackout and antibiotic. Some people have success with the blackout only, but since this tank had an awful smell, I chose to use the erythromycin also.

Good luck and I hope some of this helps!

 

[fastfly48]

Thanks An t-iasg
I think my pleco died becasue my Ph dropped to 6.4 from 7ppm...
I just used Chucks calculator and figured out my C02 is at 26ppm...which I believe is also dangerous for fish...so maybe it was that too...

I had really bad green water when I started out...I think that the green mist I'm sucking up from the gravel when I vacume deep is just left overs from it...
I killed off the green water with Phosgaurd and blackouts.
The only algae in the tank is on the leaves. It's browny orange and doesn't smell.

I'm lost at the moment. I don't know what to do with my tank. I have a picture in my head but know I'll never get close to it.
I mean i REALLY want a nice planted tank (i can't say it enough) but it's just been painfull sailing. I'll give it a bit longer, see how these new plants hold up.

Ry

 

[greenmaji]

26 ppm is not harmfull to the fish.. they just need adiquite O2.. only extreamly high CO2 would be cause for concern (more like 40ppm). consitant high CO2 should help (25-30ppm) avoid algae problems
the same calculator will give you information about how to dose KNO3.. getting it up to 10-15 ppm will help.. and how much PO4 do you have? at 10-15ppm of NO3 you will need about 1-1.5ppm PO4.
I think NO (with approprate bulbs like the daylight spectium ones 6500K) is fine for shallow tanks and if its a 20 long you should be fine (right at 2wpg)
N is nitrate dosing.. KNO3 or there are nitrate products such as sechems florish nitrogen (I cant spell very well so sorry if the product is misspelled).

 

[fastfly48]

I don't know how much phosphate I have.
I have an old Phosgaurd filter insert still in my otb filter though...
I only have about 5ppm of Nitrate...
I'm just waiting now to see how this batch of plants do. If they don't do well things are looking bad, if they do ok-ish (which I doubt) I'll add more...

On chucks site he rekons high C02 (over 25ppm) is bad...or did I miss-read somethn?
So the C02 should help fight the algae on the leaves? Sure hope so. I think that this algae is just going to cover all my leaves in time...

Thanks for your suggestions.
Ry.

 

[BrianNY]

I believe what you have Ry, is diatom algae. It's normal for this to appear in a relatively new tank. As your tank matures this algae will become less and less until it finally disappears and hopefully is not replaced by other algae. In the meantime it's easily removed with your fingers by gently wiping.

Nothing worthwhile is easy. You must be patient and learn along the way.

 

[DeFeKt]

I'd try treat the algae first.

http://perth-cichlid-forums.ipbhost.com/Algae-Description-And-Control-In-Freshwater-Aquar-t2001.html

before starting over.

btw how many hours of light does the system get a day?

Matt.