I'm stumped... :(

[wrmiller]

Greetings all and thank you in advance for any help you can provide!

I have had my 37 gallon aquarium (my first) set up not for about 3.5 weeks. I have been doing frequent water changes of at least 3 or 4 times a week. I have been adding the bacteria adding stuff every time I do a water change also.

At first I just had two mollies in the tank but then added some small tiger barbs (6) recently. They are doing well together getting along wit one another. Oh, and I have an albino Cory also. I have some artificial plants but recently added a mix of live plants and also a bamboo spiral.

Here is my dilemma. The water I originally added to my tank was softened through the water softener so the water had absolutely 0 hardness. I have since done many water changes and the softness/hardness is just about middle of the road which is okay I think. My pH by default from my water is about 7.8 which I am being told is a little too high? I have used a whole bottle of pH down in the tank over the last week and a half and it hasn't moved the pH a bit. Still about 7.8. Now over the last couple of days the nitrite levels are really going up. Right now they are at about 1.0 and seem to be rising pretty steadily. I did about a 30% water change yesterday morning but again tonight when I checked they are high yet again. I will do another water change tomorrow morning. I do as much cleaning as I can while doing the water change to try and get the crap off of the bottom but the water siphons fast and doesn't provide much time to clean up much. It isn't real dirty though anyway though. But, should I go and get one of those vacuums they sell at PetsMart? They allow you to vacuum the gravel to clean things up good but return the water to the tank.

So, here are my questions:
1. Why aren't my pH numbers dropping even after using a whole bottle of pH down? Are my water changes canceling it out?

2. Why would my Nitrite levels be going up so quickly and out of control? Tonight I bought something that is supposed to bring the levels down for emergency situations but I haven't seen a difference. Is there anything else I can do? Should I add salt? I have read that that might help with the nitrite but I'm afraid that it might harm my Cory. ???

3. I bought an air pump tonight and an air stone to put in the aquarium. Will it maybe help with any of the items mentioned above?

Thanks all!!!
Bill

 

[eco23]

Welcome to the site

We've got a few things to cover, and pretty much all your issues can be handled with a bucket and a bottle of water conditioner.

First, don't worry about adjusting pH. Fish will be perfectly happy where your level is at. They always prefer stable levels as opposed to fluctuating ones which the pH down will cause. Just acclimate fish properly when they are introduced to the tank and they will thrive.

Second (the big one), have you done much research on the nitrogen cycle in your aquarium? The nitrItes spiking is part of the process, but it's up to you to keep those levels as low as possible, hopefully below .25 at all times. You'll need to do daily, and sometimes more than one pwc per day to keep that level down. Both ammonia and nitrIte are very dangerous for your fish, and they'll rely on you and your bucket to keep that level as low as possible.

Third, I would personally stop using bottled bacteria products. There is nothing you can't accomplish on your own simply using a bucket and bottle of water conditioner/dechlorinator like Seachem Prime. Depending on what you are using, some bottled bacteria can also develop a dangerously unstable bio-filter and cause you serious problems in the future. They don't appear to be working anyway.

Check out these resources. They contain VITAL information to have, and will help your fish survive the process until the tank stabilizes. We'll be happy to help along the way

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...-but-i-already-have-fish-what-now-116287.html

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html

 

[eco23]

Also, stop adding fish until your tank cycles. It only compounds the problem and makes life more difficult for you and your fish. Make sure to bump up your level of Corys once the tank is stabilized and cycled. They are schooling fish and should be kept with at least 5 of their own species. A single Cory is a sad Cory. They'll be much more active, happy and entertaining once there are more of them. But again, not until your tank cycles!

 

[wrmiller]

eco23:
Thanks so much for the quick reply. I will do water change first thing in the morning. Now I'm worried about the little buggers!

The. Bucket I have and I will use it regularly. However, what is the water conditioner for? I was under the impression that I didn't need it since I have well water and my water contains no chlorine or other chemicals. Maybe I shouldn't have assumed that though. Can you provide the benefit that the sharer conditioner will provide for my educational purposes? I will be sure to go first thing tomorrow and get the conditioner if it is needed.

Thanks again and I look forward to becoming versed in keeping fish and becoming an active member of this community.

Regards,
Bill

 

[wrmiller]

Also, stop adding fish until your tank cycles. It only compounds the problem and makes life more difficult for you and your fish. Make sure to bump up your level of Corys once the tank is stabilized and cycled. They are schooling fish and should be kept with at least 5 of their own species. A single Cory is a sad Cory. They'll be much more active, happy and entertaining once there are more of them. But again, not until your tank cycles!

Sure thing! I actually had bought 2 of the Corys when I bought this one but the other didn't even make it home in the bag. I think he must have been really sick to start with.

I will take your advice and will not add anymore fish until after the cycle completes. Do you think that would be sometime soon? . I know that's a loaded question. I will check out the links you provided. Is there a way to tell when your cycle has completed and you are good to add additional fish? Any tell-tale signs?

Thanks agIn for your time and advice!!!
Bill

 

[eco23]

The water conditioner isn't as vital on well water since, as you said, you don't need to dechlorinate. However, it's still a good idea to use in case there are heavy metals or other compounds which could cause issues.

Most of us on the site recommend Seachem Prime. One of the benefits it has is the fact it temporarily neutralizes ammonia and nitrIte for 24-36 hours. That way it buys your fish time between water changes.

Some ammonia absorbing products will stall a cycle because they compete with the beneficial bacteria for their food source...ammonia. The reason Prime is good is that it only converts ammonia into a non-toxic form which can still be consumed by the nitrifying bacteria which keeps your fish safe, but still lets the tank cycle.

It's super concentrated so it lasts a long time...and is worth every penny IMO.

As for a gravel vacuum, look into a product called a Python or and Aqueon water changer. They let you do pwc's without ever lifting a bucket. Once you have one...you won't know how you lived without it.

We're glad to have you on the site. Make sure you read through the cycling guide I linked. Unfortunately, it's proably the most commonly linked guide on the site because the pet stores tend to leave out the most vital info in the interest of making a few extra $'s in many cases.

 

[eco23]

Sure thing! I actually had bought 2 of the Corys when I bought this one but the other didn't even make it home in the bag. I think he must have been really sick to start with.

I will take your advice and will not add anymore fish until after the cycle completes. Do you think that would be sometime soon? . I know that's a loaded question. I will check out the links you provided. Is there a way to tell when your cycle has completed and you are good to add additional fish? Any tell-tale signs?

Thanks agIn for your time and advice!!!
Bill

You appear to be in the nitrIte spike phase of the cycle which is pretty deep in. You'll know when the cycle is complete because your ammo and no2 will constantly remain at 0 without you having to change water. It's all covered in the guide

What brand of bottled bacteria did you use? Some can give the appearance of a cycled tank while they are in fact very unstable. Even once the tank appears cycled...I'd continue testing every day for the foreseeable future to ensure all is well.

Also, if you don't already have one...pick yourself up an API Master Test Kit. Strips are junk and wont give you accurate readings.

Regardless of what the pet store tells you...the only things you need for a healthy tank are a good test kit, a quality water conditioner and a bucket (or even better a water changer).

 

[bruinsbro1997]

+1 to all that eco23 has said. Listen to him and you will be good to go. I should also mention, bamboo sprial isn't truly aquatic. IME/research, bamboo is not fully aquatic and cannot be completely submerged, and does better in paladariums.

 

[wrmiller]

You appear to be in the nitrIte spike phase of the cycle which is pretty deep in. You'll know when the cycle is complete because your ammo and no2 will constantly remain at 0 without you having to change water. It's all covered in the guide

What brand of bottled bacteria did you use? Some can give the appearance of a cycled tank while they are in fact very unstable. Even once the tank appears cycled...I'd continue testing every day for the foreseeable future to ensure all is well.

Also, if you don't already have one...pick yourself up an API Master Test Kit. Strips are junk and wont give you accurate readings.

Regardless of what the pet store tells you...the only things you need for a healthy tank are a good test kit, a quality water conditioner and a bucket (or even better a water changer).

The bottled bacteria I was using was Jungle brand Start Zyme. I will heed your advice and will stop using it immediately. I will also stop using the pH down as well. I assume my pH levels should stay consistent since they always seem to be a constant and very stable 7.8 coming out of my well. You think the fish no matter what I decide to go with in the end will just adapt to the 7.8?

How much does the API master test kits run by way of price? I'm assuming it is a chemical kit then? Do they last awhile? I'm assuming it is similar to the ones like are used for swimming pools?

Thanks again for all of the advice!!!
Bill

 

[wrmiller]

+1 to all that eco23 has said. Listen to him and you will be good to go. I should also mention, bamboo sprial isn't truly aquatic. IME/research, bamboo is not fully aquatic and cannot be completely submerged, and does better in paladariums.

Thank you for the advice! I think eco23 and I may become fast friends.

Regarding the bamboo. It seems to be doing great and I can see it growing well. I really like the look of it. What is the risks or what could go wrong if I leave it submersed in the aquarium?

The other plant aquatic combo I bought has this listed on it's tag: Dracaena Spathiphyllum Ophiopogon Trichomanes Syngonium. I of course am not familiar with any of the names.

Thanks again!
Bill

 

[eco23]

The bottled bacteria I was using was Jungle brand Start Zyme. I will heed your advice and will stop using it immediately. I will also stop using the pH down as well. I assume my pH levels should stay consistent since they always seem to be a constant and very stable 7.8 coming out of my well. You think the fish no matter what I decide to go with in the end will just adapt to the 7.8?

How much does the API master test kits run by way of price? I'm assuming it is a chemical kit then? Do they last awhile? I'm assuming it is similar to the ones like are used for swimming pools?

Thanks again for all of the advice!!!
Bill

I'm glad you're open to advice . I promise you the things I'm recommending are through personal experience from myself, as well as that of other members. We don't want your money, we just want your fish to be healthy and for you to enjoy the hobby.

7.8 is absolutely fine. You'd have to be keeping SUPER sensitive fish for it to ever be an issue. If your pH is drastically different from what the store you buy them forms water is...a good drip acclimation to introduce them to your tank is the best idea.

The Stress Zyme only has an effect on your wallet...and if it actually does do anything in the tank...it will be negative things IMO/E.

The API Master Test kits are a liquid kit that tests ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte and pH. The run from $25-30 but are worth every penny. They're as accurate as you can get as far as commercially available kits, and last forever. The kit I have now is well over 6 months old and I've only had to buy refills of the ammo solutions. They're one of the things that are vital to fish-keeping.

 

[eco23]

Thank you for the advice! I think eco23 and I may become fast friends.

Regarding the bamboo. It seems to be doing great and I can see it growing well. I really like the look of it. What is the risks or what could go wrong if I leave it submersed in the aquarium?

The other plant aquatic combo I bought has this listed on it's tag: Dracaena Spathiphyllum Ophiopogon Trichomanes Syngonium. I of course am not familiar with any of the names.

Thanks again!
Bill

Plants are far from my specialty so I'll leave that to other members. I only keep plants like Water Sprite, Java Moss, Vals, Rotala and a Morimo Ball. My understanding is that there's really no downside other than them dying. Problem is, a dying plant leeches ammonia and adds to the problem. If they start to turn brown, I'd pull them out.

 

[wrmiller]

Plants are far from my specialty so I'll leave that to other members. I only keep plants like Water Sprite, Java Moss, Vals, Rotala and a Morimo Ball. My understanding is that there's really no downside other than them dying. Problem is, a dying plant leeches ammonia and adds to the problem. If they start to turn brown, I'd pull them out.

Will do if I see it starting to die off. Thanks again!

I will be getting the master test kit tomorrow.

 

[eco23]

Will do if I see it starting to die off. Thanks again!

I will be getting the master test kit tomorrow.

Happy to help . Just keep up the water changes and all will be well. Keep us posted on how it's going

 

[wrmiller]

One other question I had and I hope you don't mind.
I keep reading about the bacterias setting up shop in the filter. My filter is a Top Fin filter and I am supposed to replace the filter insert every month. The filter doesn't contain anything else in it other than that insert. Does that mean that when I replace the filter insert each month things will have to start over again in the filter or do the bacteria also attach and live in other places in the filter? The filter itself without the insert is just plastic.

 

[eco23]

One other question I had and I hope you don't mind.
I keep reading about the bacterias setting up shop in the filter. My filter is a Top Fin filter and I am supposed to replace the filter insert every month. The filter doesn't contain anything else in it other than that insert. Does that mean that when I replace the filter insert each month things will have to start over again in the filter or do the bacteria also attach and live in other places in the filter? The filter itself without the insert is just plastic.

Great question! That's a prime example of how I said the pet stores want to make money instead of looking after your fishes wellbeing in many cases.

You're absolutely right that the VAST majority of the BB lives in filter media. It should only be replaced when it is literally falling apart. Telling people to replace it monthly is only a money making scheme to make you walk through the doors and buy something every month. It is detrimental to your fish and can cause mini-cycles when replaced.

During water changes, fill a bucket with water from your tank. Swish the filter around to remove the debris it has collected then stick it right back in where it was.

When you get to the point that the filter is no longer viable, jam a new one in next to it for a couple weeks (as long as possible) so the old filter can seed the new with beneficial bacteria before it is replaced.

The link in my signature is a guide on fishless cycling, so the theme won't apply to you, but it covers some basics on filter replacement and other ways to keep your tank healthy down the road.

Check it out and never be afraid to ask questions! Lord knows we all had enough of our own when we started out.

 

[wrmiller]

Okay, I hope I don't wear out my welcome in my first night but I just can't sleep tonight and my mind is racing about this aquarium and these fish. If my daughter weren't in bed I would do the water change now.

Anyway, I looked at the water conditioner I purchased tonight at PetSmart and it is the Seachem Prime Water Conditioner. Hopefully since I used that tonight the fishes will be okay until morning when I do the change.

My other subject of discussion, backgrounds: I don't like the look of not having a background because of the wires and things you can see behind the aquarium. I bought the black/blue background from PetSmart awhile back but am not a fan of how it makes a faint ghosting reflection in the back of the tank. I also have not found an easy way to put the background on the back of the aquarium. Especially now that it is almost 500 pounds of aquarium and water sitting just a few inches from the wall. I would almost prefer Something to stick in the tank as a background instead of putting something on the back. I was thinking of maybe some sort of colored acrylic or something or maybe even inserting a mirror in to the tank to use as the background. Any thoughts, advice or other ideas that look nice that can be implemented easily in to an aquarium that is already set up?

Thanks again, folks!

 

[eco23]

Okay, I hope I don't wear out my welcome in my first night but I just can't sleep tonight and my mind is racing about this aquarium and these fish. If my daughter weren't in bed I would do the water change now.

Anyway, I looked at the water conditioner I purchased tonight at PetSmart and it is the Seachem Prime Water Conditioner. Hopefully since I used that tonight the fishes will be okay until morning when I do the change.

My other subject of discussion, backgrounds: I don't like the look of not having a background because of the wires and things you can see behind the aquarium. I bought the black/blue background from PetSmart awhile back but am not a fan of how it makes a faint ghosting reflection in the back of the tank. I also have not found an easy way to put the background on the back of the aquarium. Especially now that it is almost 500 pounds of aquarium and water sitting just a few inches from the wall. I would almost prefer Something to stick in the tank as a background instead of putting something on the back. I was thinking of maybe some sort of colored acrylic or something or maybe even inserting a mirror in to the tank to use as the background. Any thoughts, advice or other ideas that look nice that can be implemented easily in to an aquarium that is already set up?

Thanks again, folks!

Good deal with the Prime . Depending on how high ammo and no2 are...you can use from 2-5x the normal dosage to detoxify them. The effects are only supposed to be effective for 24-36 hours.

As for backgrounds, it's entirely your call. I've only got a background on one of my tanks, and it's the black backing normally sold at Petco. I just measured, cut to size and used Scotch tape in a few areas. The input and output of my canister filter help keep it in place pretty well. I've also heard of people simply using poster board.

I'm heading to bed for the night. I'll check back on the thread tomorrow. Have a good night!

 

[wrmiller]

Okay, here is another question for you all. Is it necessary to have the air bubbling thing? Frankly I don't like them or the noise they produce. Makes me want to pee all of the time. LOL!!! Does the filter alone provide enough oxygen or is there an alternative? My filter input lays just about flush with the top of the water so it doesn't provide any bubbles in the water but I read somewhere and I don't know where that the filter alone oxygenates the water sufficiently in most cases making the air pumps unnecessary?

Thanks!

 

[eco23]

Okay, here is another question for you all. Is it necessary to have the air bubbling thing? Frankly I don't like them or the noise they produce. Makes me want to pee all of the time. LOL!!! Does the filter alone provide enough oxygen or is there an alternative? My filter input lays just about flush with the top of the water so it doesn't provide any bubbles in the water but I read somewhere and I don't know where that the filter alone oxygenates the water sufficiently in most cases making the air pumps unnecessary?

Thanks!

At this point I would leave it running. For one, the more oxygen the better during a cycle (bacteria love the oxygen rich water). Second, if the ammonia and / or nitrIte have done damage to their gills, it makes it more difficult for them to breathe and the air stone will help.

As long as you have sufficient surface agitation, that is normally all that is required and air stones are just for aesthetics. You can also lower the water level in the tank so the water from the HOB breaks the surface and causes more o2 exchange.

In my DT I run a canister filter and during the day I aim the power head up towards the surface so it really helps break the surface and keeps the oxygen levels up. At night, I lower it down far enough that there is still plenty of surface movement, but it is a lot quieter since my 46 gallon is in my bedroom. If I leave the powerhead too far under the water it also tends to create a bio-film on the water surface.

If you have a heavily planted tank and run co2 it gets a lot trickier...but that doesn't seem like anything you need to be concerned with.