On going issue - Hazy water (LOTS of info/pics!)

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danstock

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
17
Hey all! This will be my first post here, but I'm desperate for answers. Hopefully someone here can shed some light on a very frustrating issue I've been battling with my aquarium. (y)

I know you all love lots of "background info" to properly assess and diagnose, so I apologize in advance for the long post (but I don't want to leave anything out that could help get to the bottom of this!).


So, where to begin? I started my love for aquariums a year ago with the purchase of a 20 gallon tank back in March 2011. I tried my best to follow all of the "rules", but still ended up with an over-stocked, under filtered tank and got bitten by the upgrade-bug.

At the time, though, I had a school of 6 platies and, eventually, 3 red-tailed loaches (aka. blue botia). As soon as I bought, and fell in love with, the loaches.. I knew I was going to need a bigger tank ASAP! The platies all came and went, but the loaches remained healthy and grew steadily. The water, however, was never crystal clear. Ever. It wasn't unbearably cloudy, but it wasn't clear either (a hazy white-ish color, I'd say, Worsened as time went on). I attributed it to the useless Whisper filter, the cheap black gravel substrate, the small piece of driftwood and the big(ish) fish making a mess of the tank. I didn't have a test kit at the time, but I was super-religious about my partial water changes (15-25% every 5 days) and, being that the fish survived in the tank for 8 months, I assume that it was properly cycled? Though I have no actual proof of this..


Here is the 20 gallon aquarium as it sat after 8 months (the night before I tore it down to upgrade). As is apparent, the water wasn't very clear:
aqissue1.jpg



Fast forward to November 2011: I finally purchased a used 33 gallon and accessories and performed the much needed upgrade.

The new tank came with substrate, driftwood, filter (AC 300 HOB), air pump, heater, etc. However, the filter was missing the little leveling piece and, not being able to find one immediately, I resorted to buying a new (slightly smaller) filter (AC50). I used the water, substrate, plants (fake plastic), decorations and drift wood all from my established 20 gallon to start up the new 33. I added another bag of new gravel (that I washed, but not as well as I probably should have... I'll come back to this) and a few new plastic plants. Also, I ran it with a new AC50 filter (with all new media - sponge, activated carbon and bio balls) so I expected at least a mini-cycle, but I assumed the use of the old water and contents of the tank would help this process (still no test kit, at this point).

The tank was super cloudy, at first, as would be expected. Within a few days, though, it became what I have since come to know as "clear". From the front view, you'd have trouble saying it's not perfectly clear, until you look down the tank length-wise. You can barely see the other side for all the "haze".


Here is the tank after it cleared all settled. This is about as good as got. Clear, but still not crystal (Also, this is with a different colored bulb. I since upgraded to the 6700k aqua glo, to explain different look from the rest of the pictures below!)

aqissue4.jpg



So this was where the "issue" began - back at the end of November... despite everything I do, I simply cannot make the tank crystal clear! I have literally tried everything... I now ask for help from the pros!


So, to reiterate, my tank was now up and running with decent filtration and more adequate space for the inhabitants. I added a 4th blue botia (and a 5th, but one sadly jumped out a while later... through a space you wouldn't believe if you saw it. Crafty bugger!) and a school of 6 rosy tetras, 3 boesmans rainbowfish (one died a week or so later, leaving 2), and I added an albino bristlenose pleco a month or so later. A total of 13 fish. 4 loaches, 6 tetra, 2 rainbows and a small pleco.

I also picked up a master test kit and test the water frequently. All tests confirm that the tank is cycled and stable. Ammonia is always 0.0, as are nitrites. Nitrates flucuate from 5 to 20ppm and PH is steady at 6.5. Temp is a constant 80 and consistant from one side of the tank to the other. Lighting is on a timer: LED moonlight from 9am to 12pm. 30watt 6700k aqua glo tube light (30") from 12pm to 10pm, then back to LED moonlight from 10pm to 12am. Full darkness from midnight to 9am. Tank gets no direct sunlight, but is in a room lit by ambient light from a nearby window (15 feet away). PWC of 15-25% done at least every 5 days. Each month or so I rinse the filter sponge in used tank water and I replace the carbon every few weeks.

About a month ago, I finally got the leveller for the AC300 (equal to newer AC70) and got that up and running. I run that with 1 sponge, activated carbon and the bioballs. I have also run it with polyester filter floss that I replaced weekly for a few weeks with no noticeable improvement. New filter is up and running (300 GPH) and established now (all tests read the same, it has been going over a month since the change and all seems well!). That was the last big change to the tank until just recently. More on that shortly...



Thus begins my on-going quest (obsession?) to get crystal clear water in my aquarium. This is what I've tried thus far:

1) The first thing I tried was cutting back on feeding from once per day, to once every other day (small amounts, no way I'm over-feeding. Each portion measured out and put into weekly pill containers to make sure of this). No noticeable improvement.

2) Next, assuming I might be battling a bacteria or algae bloom (though it doesn't look like it from the pictures I've seen of either), I decided to do a tank blackout. I covered the whole tank with garbage bags, turned out the lights and left it for 4 days, expecting to unveil a crystal clear tank at the end... but no, it didn't change it a bit.

3) I attempted filter floss, as I mentioned, for a few weeks. Constantly replacing it, but still seeing no difference.

4) I tried bigger water changes, smaller water changes, more frequent water changes, less frequent... you get the picture. None of it seemed to have any effect on the issue.

5) I even tried those water clarifying chemicals (out of desperation) that are supposed to clump small debris together to aid the filter. No such luck.

6) I figured that maybe it could be due to the black gravel (as it was the only thing not consistent between my two tanks). I have the 20 gallon running now with the AC50 and substrate from the used 33 gallon, setup identical to the other tank (just different substrate) and it is absolutely sparking clear. Which is what I'm aiming for with the 33. So, I decided to swap substrates in the 33. I chose pool filter sand and spent a couple hours cleaning it before I put it in (as improperly washed substrate was on my list of "possible causes" originally). The swap went flawlessly and, a few days later now, everything is settled back to normal... and back to the normal clear (but hazy) water.


Before the swap to sand:
aqissue5.jpg


After the swap:
aqissue8.jpg



6) Swapping the substrate also allowed me to confirm that nothing was rotting anywhere in the tank out of sight. I removed all the old gravel, siphoned the bottom completely clean and then slowly added the new sand. All the fake plants, decorations and driftwood went back in. Driftwood has been in the tank the whole time and doesn't seem to be leaching anything, either, if that's what you're thinking.

7) Last, but certainly not least, I got desperate and bought the supposed "cure-all" for aquarium cloudiness: a Vortex D-1 Diatom Filter. Thinking this was finally my answer, I bit the bullet and picked one up. I setup and charged the filter and let it do it's work, highly anticipating the results! It has been running for 2 days now (all literature indicates sparkling water within a few hours, at most) and it's still not where I'd expect. From the front, the water is beautiful. You can tell the background isn't quite as bright looking as it should be, though, yet it's hard to say it's not crystal clear. It's closer, anyways. However, when viewed length-wise, it is most definitely still hazy. I am unable to even see the other side of the tank still. I am at a complete loss.

I know that tanks can be crystal clear (as I have a 20 gallon that is perrrfect), but this one is seemingly impossible achieve. The only common variable between my 20 gallon (when it was cloudy) and the 33 gallon now, which is unique between the two currently, is the loaches. That's it. I have nothing left to try and nothing left I can change aside from doing more (or less) water changes, which I have already exhausted IMO.

As a reference, here's a quick picture of my 20 gallon. Notice the difference in the clarity of the background (same depth as the 33 gallon, same background, etc.):

aqissue10.jpg



What's next? I'm starting to believe that I'm just going to have to live with it, but I would greatly enjoy being able to finally figure this out...

Any thoughts from you experienced vets??

Thanks in advance and please let me know if I (somehow) left anything out (y) lol


PS - Here is a picture of the tank length-wise. Taken just seconds ago (so you can see exactly what I'm on about):
aqissue9.jpg


I may be crazy for expecting better, but I would just love to see what this tank for look like with pristine, crystal clear water. I hope you all can help. Thanks again!

Dan
 
Well after reading that, and with all you've done I can not think of a single thing to tell you different. And with you copying the other tank I don't know what else to do!!! The only thing I would do would get a larger filter.
 
Well after reading that, and with all you've done I can not think of a single thing to tell you different. And with you copying the other tank I don't know what else to do!!! The only thing I would do would get a larger filter.
Thanks for reading my novel and taking the time to respond (y)

I hear ya on the bigger filter, but I don't see how even that would help at this point? With the AC70 established and running AND the Diatom filter adding an additional 300ish GPH with mechanical filtering down to 1 micron... I just don't see how it can be a filter issue? I mean, how the heck can my water still be cloudy after running a diatom filter for that long?? It just completely blows my mind.

If it were driftwood tannins, algae, bacteria, dust... hell, even diseases! This filter would clear that all up (allegedly). So what does that leave me with?? :banghead:
 
Yea I guess your right about that. It blows mine to. And your even using poly fill. That's what I was gonna say but then saw you were using. I don't mind reading long stories. I like finding all I can about someones issues2
 
I don't know what to suggest. It looks like a bacterial bloom to me. Does the water smell at all?

Do you have access to a microscope?
 
Yea, I feel like I've tried everything. I'm just stumped. Called the LFS and they had no further advice either.

I'm not crazy though, right?? That tank should be much clearer than that, shouldn't it?? Or is the hazyness somehow a factor of the size of the tank? It's not huge, but I am "looking through more water" than when I look at my 20 gallon. I can't see that being a factor, though. Can anyone confirm that crystal clear water can be achieved on larger tanks??
 
It doesn't matter the size, I've saw larger tanks that are crystal clear. Are you feeding both tanks the same kinda food?
 
How long has the sand been in there? The only long shot idea I have is that the gravel WAS causing cloudiness, and now if the sand is fairly new IT could be causing cloudiness. That's it...that's all I've got.
 
Wow you've done a lot. At first I was going to say check your source water for cloudiness but if your other tank is clear then it can't be the water. The noticeable difference between the two tanks is that one has sand and one has gravel and the one with sand has loaches, right? Perhaps the loaches are kicking up sand granules that are clouding the water?

Also how long have you had the filter media for the 33 gal? Have you ever rinsed it out in old tank water during a water change? A lot of gunk and stuff can build up and maybe some if it is getting dumped back into the tank.

Those are my best guesses after a long day. I'll keep thinking. :)
 
Do you change your filter cartridge?
The current filter media has been running for the past month and a bit. Aside from the aforementioned poly floss, I keep it as is. I have rinsed the sponge once (just gently in old tank water), and I have replaced the carbon pouch a few days ago (but left the old one in there too, for now).

Right now, in my AC300 (AC70 equivalent) I have a sponge, then 3 week old carbon, then 3 day old carbon, then biomax. I was running poly floss between the carbon and foam previously, but I gave up on it after no improvement.

I'm not going to mess with the filter for a while, though. At least until I notice diminished flow (just in case rinsing it before caused an issue with the bio filter). I would assume though, that if it it did, I would have seen ammonia or nitrite spikes? Everything still checks out. I have no idea what more I can do...
 
If the sand it full of silicates your could be have a diatom bloom. I realize your diatom filter should take care of this, but they could be reproducing fast enough to out compete your filters. Only thing I can think of.

What kind of sand are you using?
 
I don't know what to suggest. It looks like a bacterial bloom to me. Does the water smell at all?

Do you have access to a microscope?
It doesn't smell at all, nope... and negative on the microscope. Wouldn't the diatom filter clear up a bacterial bloom though, if it was?

It doesn't matter the size, I've saw larger tanks that are crystal clear. Are you feeding both tanks the same kinda food?
That's what I figured. Dang. Yes, both tanks get the same food, roughly. Flake and sinking pellets and the occasional algae wafer.

How long has the sand been in there? The only long shot idea I have is that the gravel WAS causing cloudiness, and now if the sand is fairly new IT could be causing cloudiness. That's it...that's all I've got.
Sand was only put in on Monday (been in a little over 2 days now). However, I spent hours cleaning the sand, due to my suspicions that I had slack-assed the cleaning of the previous gravel. The stuff couldn't have been any cleaner. It didn't even cloud up the tank barely when I put it in (very gently lol). Also, I ran the diatom filter for the past 2 days as well, which one would assume would have picked up the slack.

Wow you've done a lot. At first I was going to say check your source water for cloudiness but if your other tank is clear then it can't be the water. The noticeable difference between the two tanks is that one has sand and one has gravel and the one with sand has loaches, right? Perhaps the loaches are kicking up sand granules that are clouding the water?

Also how long have you had the filter media for the 33 gal? Have you ever rinsed it out in old tank water during a water change? A lot of gunk and stuff can build up and maybe some if it is getting dumped back into the tank.

Those are my best guesses after a long day. I'll keep thinking. :)
I had the same thoughts about the water. But yes, the water source is identical (as is the water changes/treatment, and just about everything else except the substrate - which I plan to swap to sand on my next day off, as well!)

But yes, the current sand tank has the loaches. They do kick up the sand a bit, but it seems to settle immediately. There is no sand accumulating anywhere is shouldn't (on the driftwood, decorations or plants), which suggests to me that it's staying put pretty well.

As for the filter, yes, I do gently rinse it periodically. This new filter has been running just over a month and been rinsed in old tank water only once so far. I'm not planning to do it again (out of fear of killing the bio filter) until I notice a reduced flow rate. For now it seems just fine so I don't want to mess with it a whole lot. This also goes back to my original argument, though... wouldn't the diatom filter have picked up the mess if it was blow by from the filter?
 
If the sand it full of silicates your could be have a diatom bloom. I realize your diatom filter should take care of this, but they could be reproducing fast enough to out compete your filters. Only thing I can think of.

What kind of sand are you using?
It is Pool Filter Sand from a local pool supply store. I rinsed it in small batches, 30 times each, at least! It was literally as clean as I could get it. This exact same "haze" was present with the previous gravel substrate as well, though. It has improved with the addition of the sand and diatom filter, but it is obviously still present (see pictures in first post!).
 
Yah pool filter sand should be good to go. I know you're frustrated, I've been there.

At this point if I were in your situation, and the fish are happy, I would just sit back enjoy the tank. Try to get everything on a comfortable (normal) schedule. Let the problem work itself out. Trying so hard to solve the problem could be creating/prolonging it.

Not saying this is the best idea it's just what I would do, short of any good advice that comes up from this thread of course :).

Good Luck! :fish2:
 
This is a poser. Is there visible accumulation in the Diatom? Don't be afraid to vigorously clean the sponge insert; the bacteria will not come off. At this point I would empty the tank of as much water as possible and refill. If the water is clear, perhaps the problem will be solved. If it clouds again, than it is likely a bacterial bloom, as any suspended material will have been removed, and for a new haze to appear, it would have to be created. The substrate would not be the source unless you stirred it.
 
Yah pool filter sand should be good to go. I know you're frustrated, I've been there.

At this point if I were in your situation, and the fish are happy, I would just sit back enjoy the tank. Try to get everything on a comfortable (normal) schedule. Let the problem work itself out. Trying so hard to solve the problem could be creating/prolonging it.

Not saying this is the best idea it's just what I would do, short of any good advice that comes up from this thread of course :).

Good Luck! :fish2:
Yea, I agree. Doesn't seem to be much more I can do. I already have things pretty well "scheduled". Timer for the lights, weekly pill containers pre-filled with food (and as little as I dare feed them), religious PWC and testing schedule, etc.

I figured I might as well throw out this life line and see if anything comes of it. If not, I don't have much else I can do other than sit back and see what happens in time lol
 
This is a poser. Is there visible accumulation in the Diatom? Don't be afraid to vigorously clean the sponge insert; the bacteria will not come off. At this point I would empty the tank of as much water as possible and refill. If the water is clear, perhaps the problem will be solved. If it clouds again, than it is likely a bacterial bloom, as any suspended material will have been removed, and for a new haze to appear, it would have to be created. The substrate would not be the source unless you stirred it.
Ok, good to know! With the next water change I'll give the sponge a good cleaning.

As for the diatom filter, when I start it, the filter bag gets coated with the powder quickly and then the flow rate is constant. I let it run for 2 days with a few breaks here and there, but the flow rate only decreased slightly. As for accumulation, the filter powder turned from white to a light brown, but there wasn't a lot of algae or anything in the tank to filter out... just this "haze", so it doesn't seem to have picked up much (and obviously left the haze behind lol). Overall, I'd say it's marginally clearer than it was before the diatom filtering, but not even close to what I was expecting. That improvement could be attributed to the new substrate, as well. Bit of a disappointment, really...

How much is the maximum water I could be safe in changing out at one time?? Most I've ever done is 50% with no improvement afterwards. Can I do more than that??
 
Problem finally solved!! :dance:

Last night I did a huge water change - about 70%, I'd say. I also rinsed the filter sponge pretty thoroughly in the removed tank water. When filling the tank back up, I also took my time. Instead of pouring in huge buckets of water, I used a small pitcher which I submerged in the tank first and then slowly poured out (so as to not disturb the sand). I then threw on the diatom filter for the night and let it be.

This morning it is crystal clear! Well, much more than it was, anyways. I can easily see all the way through the tank length-wise now, and the fish all seem perfectly happy with all of the changes! :)

The pictures make it seem not-quite-perfect, but it looks great in person!

aqissue11.jpg



Here is the current length-wise view. The pictures still appear a bit cloudy, but it looks great in person.

aqissue12.jpg



For comparison, here is the length-wise view from yesterday:
aqissue9.jpg



At least now I know that big water changes are the ticket. I'll give it a few days and maybe do one more and see if I can get it really polished looking! For now, I'll take the improvement as a success :D

Thanks everyone for all you help and input! (y)
 
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