Overcrowding - A discussion on dispelling the myth

[coolchinchilla]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Nobody reads my article. (Thanks Jchillin for the plug).

Anyway. I see it that there are three main variables to having a healthy aquarium. 1. the tank. 2. the fish. 3. the aquarist.

1. Tank size sets the initial parameters (10 gal vs. 100 gal)
2. The characteristics of the fish are next (large, small, peaceful, aggressive)
3. The aquarist is the third consideration. (experience, willingness to do pwc, desires).

The one-inch rule is useful for newbies. As newbies gain experience, they will learn how to nudge some of the guidelines as they stock their aquariums.

One thing I don't understand. Why is it that people are so passionate against the 1-inch rule? If you do a search on the phrase "1 inch rule" on the forums you find 310 matches with 7 pages of links to posts. If you check a number of the posts, they are very similar. Someone claims the rule is essentially rubbish. Someone else says it's ok for newbies and so on. Here ia a post from August 2003: 1-inch rule

We've discussed this rule over and over. Sure it can get newbies in trouble because they put a 3-inch oscar in a 10 gallon tank. That's a problem. But that's not what BrianNY (original poster) is objecting to if I understand correctly.

My question is why are we, the experienced aquarists, so resentful of the rule? Why do we care? We understand how to keep a healthy tank, so what's the problem? Is it that others criticize us for not keeping the rule so we need to justify ourselves by discrediting the rule or downgrading the rule to newbies only?

Differing opinions abound in aquaria! We have differing opinions on the type of dechlorinator, the proper food to feed, how frequently to feed, type of filter, cycling. Many times people are told something would never work out but in fact it does. I can't remember who, but someone decided to create a planted tank for Malawi cichlids. He was told it couldn't be done, but he was determined and he succeeded. Someone else on the SW side commented that when he had a tank years ago everybody thought that protein skimmers were useless. Mostly I'm just curious. What is it about the one-inch rule that raises our collective hackles?

 

[BrianNY]

My reason for starting this discussion had nothing to do with any disdain for the 1" per gallon rule coolchinchilla. I simply wanted to add a little life to the board by giving people an area to voice their opinions and experiences on a subject that is often misunderstood. When I do this my hope is that people will give it some thought and have fun with it.


Perhaps I'll start another discussion on topics that do get my hackles raised.

 

[Jchillin]

(Thanks Jchillin for the plug).

It's not a plug...it's a fact and I was surprised that so many had not seen it.

Regarding the "rules". Rules are basically guidelines. They are designed to help folks avoid getting themselves into unnecessary problems. Once you have disciplined yourself, you can take on challenges without harming your fish.

I am a member of the "bending the rules" class. I have fish that "should not" be kept together, along with plants that "cannot" thrive in a low-light environment.

IMO, we should endeavor to experiment to a degree that is not harmful, lest we learn nothing more than what is "already there". Indeed, a great example of this theory is Planted tanks. Let me know where this was 20 years ago and where it would be now if not for experimenting?

Don't throw the rules out the window...use them to your advantage if you are willing to follow the learning curve.

 

[BillD]

A lot of interesting points raised here that will help to dispell some myths. These forums are great because they allow discussion, but they also perpetuate myths. As already pointed out, safe stocking levels are reliant on a number of factors, of which tank size may be the least important. If you are willing to do the work, you can keep a lot of fish in a small space. The fun would soon go out of it, however. This raises another point that is related, and that is that adding more filtration will allow you to keep more fish. This is only true to a point. More filtration will, perhaps keep ammonia and nitrite levels at zero, but the amount of nitrate is totally reliant on the bioload in the tank. This can only be reduced, in practical terms, by PWCs. This of course leads to the question of how much water needs to be changed. I often see blanket statements, of how much and how often. the problem with blanket statements is that they don't address a particular tank setup, of which no two are the same. It seems that 40 ppm of nitrate is an accepted maximum level of nitrate. If you maintain this level, you are running on the edge. In my view, 0 ppm of nitrate would be better. This would not be practical, of course, but we can try to keep the number lower by changing more water. I personally change no less than 50% each time, preferably weekly. It is my belief that you can't change too much, too often. I would not hesitate to change 90% if I thought it was prudent. This would be considered heresy in many circles. The word stress keeps coming up in discussions of water change, and I believe it to be overated and over used. Poor water quality is the worst stressor I can think of. The bottom line here is, that, the true safe stocking level of any given tank is a product of the bioload and the enthusiasm of the aquarist for water changes.

 

[coolchinchilla]

My reason for starting this discussion had nothing to do with any disdain for the 1" per gallon rule coolchinchilla. I simply wanted to add a little life to the board by giving people an area to voice their opinions and experiences on a subject that is often misunderstood. When I do this my hope is that people will give it some thought and have fun with it.

My bad. I beg your pardon. I projected my stressors onto your post. I saw anger and frustration when it was really more curiosity and educational. :? Perhaps posts about the 1-inch rule actually merit frequent discussion. Whenever it comes up, lots of people chime in. If it were a dead topic like I imagined, then the post would be mostly ignored. So many people don't quite understand the notion of bioload (I didn't) and the 1-inch guideline seems to be misapplied all the time. There are new people on the boards all the time so it is always a good topic to address.

Perhaps I'll start another discussion on topics that do get my hackles raised.

LOL! Go for it! Fortunately people here are happy to give advice and happy to respect different opinions.

 

[crazycat]

i think a lot of the resistance to the 1" rule is that it IS used so often without taking specific tank setups into consideration. and people often rebel against such broad and non-specific rules--everyone wants to feel like an individual and doesn't want to be put in the big genral "box". it's sort of like telling someone "because i say so" when they ask why. i also think it bums people out because often they really want more fish than their tank can actually sustain (esp if they are new to the rigors of tank maintenance)--as we all know fishkeeping can become an addiciion--we just want more and more, and people are unwilling to accept the 1" rule because it seems limiting--especially when you have a small tank. i know i suffered from disregarding this "rule" when i started out--rather, my fish suffered. i felt like my "creativity" was being curtailed, and that through sheer force of will i cfould just chuck the rule out of the window. oops. of course now, i flaunt all the rules and have a healthy tank--but i work A LOT on it--and am willing to put in the time.

i agree, that when you become a more practiced aquarist, you can "bend" this rule. but in the beginning it is helpful to have some parameters. i just wish that the local lfs would be more educational and talk specifically about how you plan to set up a tank, based on which fish you want, tank size etc. rather than just throw products and the 1" rule at you. however, that does not move merchandise or make the maximum roi.

just my 2 cents...

oy humbug!

 

[coolchinchilla]

and people often rebel against such broad and non-specific rules--everyone wants to feel like an individual and doesn't want to be put in the big genral "box".

hmmmmmmmm.... I actually relish being "in the box." There is a place in this world for out-of-the-box thinkers. There is an equally solid place for in-the-box thinkers.

 

[hardcyder]

WOW.. best thread I have read in a long while. Mainly 'cause most of you agree with me that if water parameters are kept good (testing, filter capacity AND water changes), if the fish in the tank are compatible and you balance out the levels (eg. bottom dwellers, mid and surface) and if it works for your particular tank, then you shouldn't be bombarded by one inch "rule" fanatics when you ask if anyone has had success in keeping a particular type fish in with the others you have.

 

[greenmaji]

wow.. to think me and BillD were talking about this in PM a couple of months ago (didnt know how to bring this topic up here) and now here everyone is talking about it is amazing to me..
Ive done some serious looking into ATS filtration (the closest filtration I have seen to actually be able to increase stock levels in a tank w/o more % or frequency in water changes, the most agressive form of this type of filtration anyway) yet nothing tops the original filter.. an open system..

maybe this thread is just monster island material.. (to counter the other water changing thread in there.. LOL)

 

[Jchillin]

Hey GM (Merry Christmas BTW ) Did you see the article devoted to this subject? It's amazing how often it comes up (which was the purpose of coolchinchilla sponsoring the article).

The thread doesn't qualify for Monster Island just yet.

 

[SeanMurphy]

The one thing about the 1-inch-rule that I'd like to see is for it to be beat into the heads of all LFS part-time workers. If you already know the rule, chances are you've done enough research to know it's a 'loose guideline', not a hard and fast law. If one doesn't know about the rule, then one is likely to be the type of person who lets a part time LFS employee tell them that 3 pop-eye fantails will fit in their 4 gal tank, no problem. (True story, it was thursday, and I didn't let it stand. Once the LFS guy left, I told the couple that they'd be better off with a single guppy, platy or betta in their tank, otherwise they'd either be doing constant water changes, or constant fish changes.)

Like has been discussed, its easy enough to have a healthy and happy tank even when "overstocked" according to common conception, but for newbies who think that you just drop a fish in some water with some marbles on the bottom, it would be nice to see it posted in the fish section of your LFS or at least have the employees know what "overstocked" and "ammonia" is.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Our lfs stands firm on the 1 inch rule here. And with the number of times I go there, they know me real well, lol.

Last time I went in and got more fish, thay said, are you sure you want to get more? With what you bought, aren't you overstocked? Or did you get a new tank? I just said I didn't get a new tank, and for a lot of people, yes, I would be overstocked when going by the 1 inch rule. But if you look at my parameters, and dedication to PWC's and look at the fish compatability, I don't see any stress in my fish, parameters are excellent, and the fish are happy. Also wanted to get tankmates for the single Bolivian I have, so she's not lonely, even though she has the bala shark as a friend. So I got the other Rams that day. Not sure if they thought I was crazy, but hey, it's my tank, and I keep on top of it.

Gouramis had another couple meals... Down to 3 small neons, lol. I know it's them. The neons were just too small. But that's ok.

 

[greenmaji]

Hey GM (Merry Christmas BTW ) Did you see the article devoted to this subject? It's amazing how often it comes up (which was the purpose of coolchinchilla sponsoring the article).

The thread doesn't qualify for Monster Island just yet.

happy holidays to all JC...I read the artical and contributied to the information that is in it . I posted information that she included in the artical..
I do realize the subjects are very closely related but the power of an open system is just not expressed in the artical (and I think it would overpower the artical unless it was used in a contex of showing the Xtreme of overstocking, wich the intent is to help new comers.. I think this information is something for more experianced hobiest to ponder) but maybe Im biast.. LOL

correct me if im wrong Brian..
I think this subject is about boundries.. and how we have let ourselves become restircted in our advise to others based on a precived limits of the persons enthusiasum for the hobby.. Or what there enthusiaum will be..

BillD of course will talk about how its not completely nessiary to cycle the tank.. just keep up with those huge water changes.. BillD.. your Xtreem
I think your coments about acceptable nitrate and what your threashold should be, 0ppm you recomend, I coulndnt agree more.. but I would limit it to how well the fish have done over time.. I think 5-10ppm is a good goal.. but thats just me.. lol

ok.. back to JC..
and I think its on its way to monster island material.. I just should have mentioned that its not there just yet.. I did have a LOL at the end of the statment though..

 

[coolchinchilla]

Jchillin, there must be some vehicle here to alleviate the tension surrounding the one-inch rule. Despite the frequency it shows up, visitors are obviously NOT getting the message. Even though we know that we can bend the guidelines, we get defensive when we do. It seems that we aquarists need to vent on the one-inch rule because we've been burned by it too many times -- to the level that Greenmaji felt uncomfortable starting a thread in the main forum 8O and resorted to discussing it in private messages.

Maybe we need to post a new thread on this topic every week for a few months until more of the visitors at AA start to understand. Monster Island won't get the traffic that repeated posts will. Maybe it will promote more goodwill because people are less apt to criticize someone else or when criticized, they will be able to shrug their shoulders instead of becoming defensive.

We need to do something, otherwise good aquarists with healthy tanks will continue to cower in closets about their stocking. Other good aquarists will be too frightened to bend the rules even though they can do so safely. Somehow the one-inch rule is more of a barrier than I first thought. --- maybe a bit overdramatic here, but thought it was worth saying.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[greenmaji]

myths presented as facts coochinchilia and I didnt say afaid just didnt know how to word it for posting..

a monster island thread is how I found this place, google..

 

[Gryph]

As a newbie, I very carefully calculated my fish by inches. Of course, this lead to a ton of mistakes, but I was so grateful for a rule to follow, I followed it religiously. People would tell me, "You cannot keep X fish with Y fish" and I'd get cowed into believing it, even if I felt that it might be wrong, or that it could be massaged to work.

I think that eventually, you come to a point where you gain enough confidence to see the intent behind the "rules" instead of the letter of the law, and you begin to feel like you can experiment outside them. Then you see where your mistaken beliefs are, and you modify them.

So long as you have a plan to deal with the potential consequences of your experimentations, I don't see any harm in attempting to overstock an aquarium, grow plants in light that they may or may not thrive in, and grow ourselves as hobbiests. In fact, I kind of think that's what it's all about.

My pair of fish food pellets.

 

[Jchillin]

chillin, there must be some vehicle here to alleviate the tension surrounding the one-inch rule. Despite the frequency it shows up, visitors are obviously NOT getting the message.

This comes up in discussions all the time...How do we get every bit of information to those who need it the most? Thinking about it...forums devoted to every type of aquaria and "stickies" at the beginning of each devoted to specific topics related to that forum. It is daunting for the beginner to find a forum and research it first prior to asking the question. Members are free to post topics as often as they wish, so if it is your wish to do so, please feel free (don't forget to plug your article).

I won't put words into the mouth of the OP of this thread but there was a thread in the General discussion forum about overstocking a tank. The OP of that thread asked for opinions and the result was nearly a tie between Yes - overstocked and No - understocked.

IMO, a healthy debate serves the purpose in that it shows differing opinions and methods. I just hope that no one misunderstands anything stated here as condoning harming their fish. That is certainily not the purpose of this thread.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

IMO, a healthy debate serves the purpose in that it shows differing opinions and methods. I just hope that no one misunderstands anything stated here as condoning harming their fish. That is certainily not the purpose of this thread.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[coolchinchilla]

myths presented as facts coochinchilia and I didnt say afaid just didnt know how to word it for posting..

Oops.... sorry.

 

[jsoong]

This had been an interesting read .... but really, this fight on the 1" rule is tame compared to what I read on the goldfish forums between the "10 gal per goldfish" people and the "20 gal per goldfish" or "x inches of fish per sq inch of surface area" camps .....

Truth is, there is no hard & fast rule. If there were, this hobby would be rather more predictable & a lot LESS interesting.