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Old 10-28-2016, 05:40 PM   #21
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??? My plant club says Swords are heavy Root feeders and once I added Root Caps my dwarf Chain Swords exploded.
I think I'll take Tom Barr's words as truth. He also recommends CO2. But I use it when I can. Still manage to grow easy plants. Med-high light stuff really needs it for sure.

My Chain Swords Attachment 290403
Attachment 290404Attachment 290405Attachment 290406

Attachment 290407

These are straight sand tanks. I used Root Caps and Leaf Zone. Nothing else in the early days of these tanks. Excel was added ? If I remembered 1x a month ??

These are 10g tanks so easier to grow in.

I do not deny your experiences or that of your club members but this does not make it true. I have yet to see any concrete scientific studies on the subject but this does not make it untrue. For every claim there is usually a counter claim (plants grow just as well in inert substrate with EI dosing) for this reason I tend to not to state either for fear of perpetuating regurgitated myth.
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Old 10-28-2016, 06:42 PM   #22
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As someone who has tried everything at least once... it's all relative... substrate+lighting+carbon source/co2+fert+flow+source water=???? Unless you'd have identical setups with different variables i.e. experiment vs.control.. Nothing definitive. Some source water is contaminated with farm runoff, lots of ferts already there.. I grew chain swords in gravel under a finnex planted plus when I had no idea what I was doing and they went ballistic. Than again I was dumping all sorts of seachem products in to the tank so..

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Old 10-28-2016, 06:55 PM   #23
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As someone who has tried everything at least once... it's all relative... substrate+lighting+carbon source/co2+fert+flow+source water=???? Unless you'd have identical setups with different variables i.e. experiment vs.control.. Nothing definitive. Some source water is contaminated with farm runoff, lots of ferts already there.. I grew chain swords in gravel under a finnex planted plus when I had no idea what I was doing and they went ballistic. Than again I was dumping all sorts of seachem products in to the tank so..

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'Tis true. You have to wonder where phrases like 'heavy root feeders' originated though.
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Old 10-28-2016, 06:59 PM   #24
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I mean.. at the same time I stuck some crypts in my 20l which has 3 year old substrate, I don't really dose the tank but these crypts took off. It's all relative! Years of fish poo.. this I know! (Fresh20 too)

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Old 10-28-2016, 07:18 PM   #25
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Of course my name and fish poo would appear in the same sentence.
The crypts I had (some of which were sent to brookster) where grown in low light, no water column ferts or carbon source, ecocomplete and root fertilizers. I used AquaFertz because they were 75 for $10. They grew slowly yet filled up my tank via runners. Healthy growth.
Water can vary by region. I've never had staurogyne repens melt, yet I hear about accounts of these plants (even the ones I've sent) just melting for no apparent reason.
As for the OP, what is the brand and model of the light fixture you are using? I have no idea how strong they are.
When my CO2 when was out for a week or so, the first thing I saw was algae growing on the plants. Diminished growth. But I never saw holes in leaves.
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Old 10-29-2016, 01:35 AM   #26
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Of course my name and fish poo would appear in the same sentence.
The crypts I had (some of which were sent to brookster) where grown in low light, no water column ferts or carbon source, ecocomplete and root fertilizers. I used AquaFertz because they were 75 for $10. They grew slowly yet filled up my tank via runners. Healthy growth.
Water can vary by region. I've never had staurogyne repens melt, yet I hear about accounts of these plants (even the ones I've sent) just melting for no apparent reason.
As for the OP, what is the brand and model of the light fixture you are using? I have no idea how strong they are.
When my CO2 when was out for a week or so, the first thing I saw was algae growing on the plants. Diminished growth. But I never saw holes in leaves.
It's an elive 48", pod wise it has 8 white, 4 lunar blue and 2 color enhancing, the pods are removable and I can add more to it or take away, if they were florescent it would be very simple for me to calculate wattage and light spectrum but with the led pods there's no heat, and they are low watts but I have every light spectrum and high lumens (strength/brightness) and Kelvin rating, it's very complicated for me lol.
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Old 10-29-2016, 06:44 AM   #27
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I do not deny your experiences or that of your club members but this does not make it true. I have yet to see any concrete scientific studies on the subject but this does not make it untrue. For every claim there is usually a counter claim (plants grow just as well in inert substrate with EI dosing) for this reason I tend to not to state either for fear of perpetuating regurgitated myth.


Fair enough. I thought I saw that our next club meet might be at Tom Barr's house. I'll ask him if he knows of any studies.

There is so much we don't know about aquarium plants
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:18 AM   #28
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Fair enough. I thought I saw that our next club meet might be at Tom Barr's house. I'll ask him if he knows of any studies.

There is so much we don't know about aquarium plants

From what I have read on the subject I've seen one that T.Barr has linked himself. It was where the plant studied (not crypts or swords) had its roots cut off but still grew.

On the whole I think Barr has his reservations on this topic as is described in the link below. There are more too.

http://www.barrreport.com/forum/barr...r-root-feeders

It would be interesting to hear his thoughts.

I agree. We know so little and mostly, what we think we know now will change over time.
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:20 AM   #29
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http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8-...5657?_k=kr1lmm

Op sorry for going off topic. Buy the excel and your plants should recover. Then you can start thinking about nutrients.
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:58 AM   #30
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Regarding the eLive fixture, here is a review from a few years back. The consensus sounds like these are suitable for low light plant tanks. However, that may be based on dated information. Also, no mention of PAR readings at all. I see that AquariumPlants.com has been recently pushing this product line. You might want to contact them to see if there are published specs (PAR chart) on these fixtures.
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