shy rainbows?

[norcalg]

Hi all,
Two days ago I stocked my freshly cycled 55 tank with 6 cories, 6 albino cherry barbs and 6 dwarf neon rainbow fish. Everybody is happy (really happy in the case of the albinos - I got to watch hours of spawning behavior yesterday )except the rainbow fish. They are clustered together, down low in one of the hiding spots, rarely making any move out. If they do come out, they are easily spooked and retreat to hide again, sometimes getting separated. Their colors are dim and I haven't seen them eat, though they did nose an algae wafer.

My water parameters are: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10 ppm nitrate and steady (though high (8.0-8.2)) pH, temp is 78*F.

What's going on with the rainbows? Do they need more of their own kind? Are they slow to acclimate to a new situation? All I've read says they're hardy and peaceful, eager to swim in the upper/middle reaches. They look healthy, to my untrained, inexperienced eyes anyway

Thanks,
~g

 

[zao]

Do they show any signs of being stressed? Like very fast moving gills(heavy breathing). I also think that rainbow fish are a schooling fish. How many rinbows do you have? cause i had a group of bella sharks that dead on me, guessing cause of old age had them for years. but anyway the one that was remaining instinally started showing signs of being stressed due to not being in a school and i went out bought some more bella sharks and with in five mins of them being in the aquarium. Started schooling again and started acting normal.so it could be a possibility that, you dont have enogh rainbow fish and they cant school.

How i am no exppert on rainbow fish and they could not be sxhooing fish and the only other really thing that i can think of is that the ph is not in a range they like and it could be stressing them out.

 

[norcalg]

Do they show any signs of being stressed?

Not really. I noticed in the LFS that the others left after my 6 were collected did the same thing, dropped to the bottom of the tank, all faced the same direction and fluttered their tails to maintain position.

I also think that rainbow fish are a schooling fish. How many rinbows do you have?

I have 6. I was wondering if they needed more to be happy. That would be the easiest fix.

How i am no exppert on rainbow fish and they could not be sxhooing fish and the only other really thing that i can think of is that the ph is not in a range they like and it could be stressing them out.

That would be the bad news. I'm not going to start fiddling with the pH so I hope they settle down and aren't bothered by it. I did try to acclimate them over a couple hours by adding small amounts of the tank water to their bags before releasing them but maybe it wasn't long enough. :?

Thanks for the response,
~g

 

[bra_van_drakh]

did u put any seashells or others that might made the pH so high ??? i think that it's ur main problem. ..praecox tend to swim in a normal pH, not too high n not too low...about 6.5-7 if i'm not mistaken. . .if ur pH is a steady 8.0-8.2, then it's too high for them.

i kept 35 of them in my 55gal and doing just fine until i over heat the tank up to 35'C T _ T[forgot to turn the heater down]
i also keep 10 in my 50 gal community ank with another 8 silver dollars and 40 molly fries[no more than 1 cms long] and they're also very active, rushing for pellets with the other fish

the pH in both of the tanks are steady 6.5-6.8 .. ..

HTH

 

[norcalg]

did u put any seashells or others that might made the pH so high ??? i think that it's ur main problem. ..praecox tend to swim in a normal pH, not too high n not too low...about 6.5-7 if i'm not mistaken. . .if ur pH is a steady 8.0-8.2, then it's too high for them.

No, we've got well water so our pH is high. It's stable, though and I was hoping that was enough to keep them comfortable.

Thanks,
~g

Edit: Signs of improvement! They are schooling with three of the cories, (the more social and active ones)! The rainbows have relaxed their formation and begun exploring the lower levels of the tank, even with the lights on and our watching. Either the cories have won them over with their good-natured presence or the rainbows have twigged to the fact that the cories stir up food bits. In any case, I am somewhat relieved.

~g

 

[zao]

Oh yeah 6 rainbow fish should be plenty for them to school. Well that is a good sign that they are starting to show signs of important. It could be that they need a little tme to get use to the tank enviroment.

Now I would still be a little worried on the PH being high and you said that you have well water. Did you use any water conditioners? Like prime, if I remeber right I think prime tries to make the water ph to neutral. But i could be wrong cause I am no where near my bottle of prime. there is also other ph buffers that you can add to the water when you do a water change which will help on making the ph neutral. But I dont know I a the type of person that does not to add alot of chemicals in my tanks and just us prime and everything is pretty even across.

 

[newfound77951]

I would worry less about the pH being high....better to keep it stable than to start fooling with it, that will bother the fish more. if the water at the LFS (or wherever you got them) had a pH that was much different, the change might have shocked them a little when you first put them in the tank (a drip acclimation probably would have been better). If you do want to lower the pH in the tank, do NOT use any of the commercial "pH buffer" additives, they are junk and cause more problems than they solve. Putting some driftwood in the tank will slowly cause the pH to decline, also, you might think about using RO/DI water in the tank, not completely, but maybe 1/4 or 1/2 DI water, this will also lower the pH. Again, you don't want to make sudden pH changes, that can and will kill your fish.

Prime does not affect pH, I believe. It neutralizes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia, which isn't really necessary if you have well water.

 

[norcalg]

Oh yeah 6 rainbow fish should be plenty for them to school. Well that is a good sign that they are starting to show signs of important. It could be that they need a little tme to get use to the tank enviroment.

I think I will add some more artificial plants, tall or floating, to offer them a little more cover.

Now I would still be a little worried on the PH being high and you said that you have well water. Did you use any water conditioners?

No, I'm not using any water conditioners, except heat. I raise the change water to the tank temperature before adding it. I did add some driftwood and checked the kH (it was high) before adding fish.

I would worry less about the pH being high....better to keep it stable than to start fooling with it, that will bother the fish more. if the water at the LFS (or wherever you got them) had a pH that was much different, the change might have shocked them a little when you first put them in the tank (a drip acclimation probably would have been better).

Thank you, that was the information that I was using. I can call the LFS to see what their pH is but I do know that my pH is within their parameters of acceptable, according to their guarantee. Next time, I'll set up a drip system.

If you do want to lower the pH in the tank, do NOT use any of the commercial "pH buffer" additives, they are junk and cause more problems than they solve. Putting some driftwood in the tank will slowly cause the pH to decline, also, you might think about using RO/DI water in the tank, not completely, but maybe 1/4 or 1/2 DI water, this will also lower the pH. Again, you don't want to make sudden pH changes, that can and will kill your fish.

I did add some driftwood (3 12" pieces) but haven't seen a decline in pH yet. I'll look into the RO/DI water. We're not ready to buy a unit yet but I might be able to buy enough to supplement our well water. But then how would I go about re-acclimating these fish to a lower pH?

More research needed...

Thanks,
~

 

[zao]

do NOT use any of the commercial "pH buffer" additives, they are junk and cause more problems than they solve.

Prime does not affect pH, I believe. It neutralizes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia, which isn't really necessary if you have well water.

Yeah I was looking at my bottle of prime, and it only neutralizes chlorine, and ammonia, and etc. It does not do anything with the PH. Which I didn't think it messed with the PH, but I was not sure since I no where near the bottle to take a look at. I am also with newfound when it comes with PH buffers, I don't belive in them. I just don't like add chemicals in my aquariums unless I have too, like Prime casue I have tap water, and I need to get ride of the chlorine, in it.

 

[JustOneMore20]

You could always add more to the school, especially in a 55g and you may see them get even more relaxed. A school of 8-10 or more would be really impressive.

 

[norcalg]

You could always add more to the school, especially in a 55g and you may see them get even more relaxed. A school of 8-10 or more would be really impressive.

I'm really tempted. Another 3 would bring the total to 9 and oooh, pretty. Not sure when I should do it though. The tank is cycled and I've had no ammonia since introducing the fish 3 days ago...
I need to figure out what I want my final stock to look like, I think.

The rainbows in question continue to improve and be more active. They spent the morning following the trying-to-spawn albino cherries and eating the eggs and just ate when I fed them. Whee! Happy fish.

~g

 

[newfound77951]

Adding more would definitely help, too. I had 3 turquoise rainbows, then 6, and now 10, and their behaviors were completely different each time. They are much more relaxed and fun to watch with the big school.

If you get some DI water, just add a little at first, then more and more at each water change, spreading it out over a couple of weeks. That will give the fish time to adjust to the new pH. You probably wouldn't need more than 1/2 DI and 1/2 tap water at max; straight DI water is very bad for the fishies.

 

[norcalg]

Adding more would definitely help, too. I had 3 turquoise rainbows, then 6, and now 10, and their behaviors were completely different each time. They are much more relaxed and fun to watch with the big school.

I may just do that.

If you get some DI water, just add a little at first, then more and more at each water change, spreading it out over a couple of weeks. That will give the fish time to adjust to the new pH. You probably wouldn't need more than 1/2 DI and 1/2 tap water at max; straight DI water is very bad for the fishies.

Okay, I'm going to use 50 gallons for ease of math and try to break that plan down.
Week 1: 20% pwc = 10 gallons: 1 gallons (?) DI, 9 gallons well. Do I need to use Prime with DI water?
Week 2: 20% pwc = 10 gallons: 2 gallons (?) DI, 8 gallons well.

Week 3: 20% pwc = 10 gallons: 3 gallons (?) DI, 7 gallons well.

By the end of three weeks, I've got... oooh, I really should be able to do this math. I know that if I continue to do the PWCs with 50/50 DI/well I will end up with a tank of 50/50 DI/well. Or do I want to figure out what I want my pH to be, figure out what proportion of DI to well water I need to achieve that and just use that proportion at every water change?

For example, if 20% DI to 80% well gives me 7.2-7.4 pH:
Week 1, 2, 3: 20% PWC 2 gallons DI, 8 gallons well, will after 5 weeks, leave me with a tank filled with 20% DI, 80% well. I think.

Maybe I'll just get a few more rainbows and hope that cheers them up.

~g

 

[newfound77951]

I'd try adding the other fish first too....and I'm a scientist.

But if you do end up adding DI, I'd just add some, test pH, keep doing this but keep track of how many gallons of DI you've put in and how many gallons of tap. once you get the pH to where you want it, you should be able to figure out what proportion of DI you'd have to add at each water change to keep the pH the same.

Alternatively, you could convert the tank to an African cichlid tank and they'd be happy as clams.....

You do not need to add prime to DI water....prime removes ammonia, chlorine and chloramine. The process by which RO or DI water is produced removes these things very effectively.

 

[norcalg]

I'd try adding the other fish first too....and I'm a scientist.

But if you do end up adding DI, I'd just add some, test pH, keep doing this but keep track of how many gallons of DI you've put in and how many gallons of tap. once you get the pH to where you want it, you should be able to figure out what proportion of DI you'd have to add at each water change to keep the pH the same.

I'll probably do the testing part on a smaller scale - now that the regression, err recurrence is solved.

Alternatively, you could convert the tank to an African cichlid tank and they'd be happy as clams.....

Next tank! Or I can set up a smaller community tank and turn the 55 over to cichlids...

You do not need to add prime to DI water....prime removes ammonia, chlorine and chloramine. The process by which RO or DI water is produced removes these things very effectively.

And is there any reason to choose RO/DI over RO? I should probably be checking the articles at this point...

Thanks for all the help,
~g