Soooo.....i'm pondering starting another tank...

[Karackle]

Funds are a bit low at the moment, and I need to get a new bed before I can get another tank, BUT I figured i'd toss my idea out there and start gathering feedback and ideas as to whether this is possible....

My thought is to make a tank with local (i live in the Albany region of NY) species....just go a'gatherin' from local ponds and streams. Plants and fish. I went to college about 20mins north of where I live now and for an ecology project we gathered some fish to try and identify them so I know there's an abundance of small minnow species around here, so the tank wouldn't have to be huge if I only housed a couple.

My questions are as follows:

1) Is this something that is possible to do?

If so then...

2) For water, I imagine I can still use conditioned tap water as long as the pH / hardness parameters are within the range of the water I gather from?

3) For substrate, would I want to buy substrate? Or would gathering some dirt and rocks from collection area and mixing it with whatever aquarium gravel i have in the house be ok?

4) I live in an area that gets very cold in the winter and warm in the summer, would I need a chiller for the tank? Or would just a heaterless tank be ok? We don't keep the apartment very warm during the winter so the tank temp would drop to the 60's in the winter, and get up to the 80's in the summer....probably less extreme than outdoors, but would that be ok?

What am I missing? not thinking of? is this a bad plan? I just thought it would be an interesting and different looking tank and might be cool to try, and, if it works, possibly save me a few $$ as a bonus

Any and ALL input would be greatly appreciated!!!

 

[cogburn]

you should check with your local gaming commission some places its illegal to keep local species of fish in captivity... and the temp swings might be too much.. yes its less than outdoors but remember outdoors is a massively larger water column... youre just talking about a few gallons as opposed to millions of gallons

 

[mandown123]

i think its a great idea.. i always am flirting with the idea of doing the same thing for local saltwater species. i never thought of it but cog brings up a good point about checking with the gaming commission

 

[CatatonicBug]

I say you lean toward "plausible deniability" and just stay away from snakeheads

 

[cogburn]

HAHAHAHA... yeah that would work too catatonic

 

[Karackle]

Hahahaha very true very true, as I am not planning on having a tank NEARLY large enough to house a snakehead or anything like it...i think I should be ok with THAT anyway...i'm thinking more along the lines of local minnows, as in from the family cyprinidae like these: Minnow Family Cyprinidae and that gives a good visual reference so i can make sure i have the smaller ones, and release the larger ones

Also Cogburn - good point about the temp swings being too much, perhaps a heater set at a lower temp so it doesnt fall toooo low would be better? But I'm wondering whether they need those cold winter months since the water temp does undoubtedly drop, i'm thinking of quite small ponds and streams that would have temperature fluctuations (based on the places we collected fish for a species diversity project in my Ecology class).

 

[theotheragentm]

Problem is that you've posted away your ability to deny right here.

 

[Karackle]

Hahaahahaha again, very true very true, i suppose I'll have to look into it then I certainly won't be taking any of the fish listed as "threatened" or anything of the sort But i suppose I'll have to check whether there's any regulations on none-threatened species

 

[nyrmel]

ROFLMAO ok krackle you know where I stand on this keep me updated

 

[Purrbox]

i'm thinking more along the lines of local minnows, as in from the family cyprinidae like these: Minnow Family Cyprinidae and that gives a good visual reference so i can make sure i have the smaller ones, and release the larger ones.

Even though you'll have collected these fish from the wild, it is best not to release them back into the wild. When kept in aquariums they are likely to be exposed to different diseases than they normally would, which would then be released into the wild with fish. If you check and it is legal to collect the fish, then plan to keep them for their entire life like you would any other fish.

 

[mandown123]

does anyone know anyone who has done this in fresh or saltwater?

 

[Karackle]

Purrbox - I apologize, I did not make myself clear, I meant that when I go to collect fish, i can use the list as a reference to see which ones would be appropriately small enough ot keep in whatever size tank i choose, and release any that will grow to large that may have gotten caught on the day of the collection, not once they've been in my tank for a while and have grown too large. No I certainly would plan to keep the fish for the duration of their life. I would probably go on an excursion to a few places armed with a net, bucket and camera, see what I catch, take pictures, go home, ID the common fish and see if any of them would work for me and then go collecting

ManDown - I've heard from a couple of people who've tried similar things and it seemed to work well for them. Also, why'd you have to go and mention trying this for saltwater, now THAT sounds like a REALLY cool idea...but one that will definitely have to wait until i have some extra $$ lying around

 

[mandown123]

lol i also had thought of doing a sunny tank with some local caught sunfish but those "little" guys im sure will cause plenty of trouble unless your talking a 100+ gallon tank and only 1 or 2 fish at that lol.

 

[Purrbox]

Thanks for the clarification. Definately no problems with that type of catch and release.

 

[nyrmel]

so when are you planning your firsttrip????????

 

[p3purr]

It's really hard, sometimes almost impossible to tell from photo's the slight differances in some of species especially for someone with no experiance or knowledge of what species can be found in a specific location. Species also can differ slighly from area to area making positive ID even more difficult.

Here's a list of threatened and endangered fish in NY state:
Endangered & Threatened Fishes Of New York - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation

Even within Cyprinidae their captive care and conditions they can tolerate can vary.

Native fish do have some cost involved in collection including fishing license, transport containers/supplies and a seine. Collecting during the hot months is a lot harder on the fish and more care needs to be taken in collecting and transporting.

I HIGHLY recommend you check out the NANFA website, including the forum, for more info on collecting native fish. You may be able to find a collection trip happening near you. The local fish club in my area goes on a collecting trip as part of their annual workshop.

 

[mandown123]

my i also recommend the Audubon guides. they are UNBELIEVABLE when it comes to IDing wild fish. I have one for when I go fishing (saltwater) and also for birds. They even list things that might trip you up when trying to ID species, for example if another species has similar lines it will note this and tell you how to easily differentiate

 

[Karackle]

Purrbox - you're welcome! Sorry i didn't make it clearer in the first place, thanks for catching that!

mandown - thanks! I'll check out the Audobon guides for sure! I'll have to hunt down my notes from my ecology class too, we had really good guides for ID'ing the fish for that class, notes on the subtle differences etc. But yeah....none of the sunfish are small enough to keep (at least not within my budget )

p3purr - thanks for the threatened species link, that's great info! I've been looking at the NANFA site too, will have to get on their message boards as well. See if they have any local collecting trips because I have not found any local aquarium hobbyist groups around here at all.

As to when my first trip will be Nyrmel...hard to say for sure! as soon as i have a chance though i'll go. And post my findings!

In the meantime, any other suggestions on the basics of keeping wild caught fish and plants would be most welcome!

Thanks again everyone!

 

[p3purr]

Biggest thing is keeping them cool in the summer. You mentioned money's an issue so consider putting the tank in a smaller room that can you can put a window AC in. That way you don't have to keep the entire house as cool. I learned that the hard way.

Before you collect know the requirements of the fish you're after. If you don't want to feed live/frozen food don't collect ones that won't adapt to flake. frozen food is also more expensive and requires someone who can care for them if you go out of town. I'm a big darter fan but they require frozen or live food and do better being target fed if there's other fish in the tank. My redlip and swallowtail shiners adapted immediatly to flake food but enjoy frozen bloodworms and live blackworms.

I've never had much luck with native plants, I use lowlight plants like java fern and crypts. I also have some peacock moss for darters to hide under but it needs to be thinned out regularly. Don't want higher light plants due to added heat over the tank in the summer.

Cover the sides of the tank for a few days when you add fish and avoid lights sudden bright lights for a while. They don't comprehend glass and this makes it easier for them to get the tank boundries without hurting themselves. It also keeps them calmer during the adjustment period. Using ditther fish when you add the first group of fish helps too.

 

[nyrmel]

hmm coveringthe sides is something I wouldnot have thought of butis a very interesting idea when I brought my fish home they where going at the sides they are fine now but if I come across that again coverig the sides hmm I like it