Tank creatures stressed out after water change

[dragon14]

hehe.

I do not have a gh/kh test kit, but my lfs has one.... I can easily get one. I have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph liquid test kits. My ph is always the same. The tank is cycled and has been going a couple months now, and even after 2 weeks, ammonia and nitrite are 0, and the nitrate was no more than 20 before we changed the water today. But before we changed the water, no panting as far as I can tell. These pygmy catfish are skittish little guys.

They mellow out after 4-6 hours though. But I still don't like seeing them stressed out.

The panting isn't more than an hour probably, and the moving around is within 4-6 hours usually. Like I said though, they are kinda lazy little bums and don't move around a whole lot usually anyway When they do, we love it!

 

[J.Mcpeak]

For fish stuff you mean (you asked about using hot water only in winter time)? We got our tank in June... we've always run the hot and cold together, so its around 79 degrees or so. (One handle for hot water, one for cold) so they mix together while coming out of the faucet. We used to have a single bar that controlled hot and cold, but our faucet and drain went back so we got a new faucet, which I was thrilled about because the old oe was crappy and I didn't like not having separate hot and cold handles.

Anyway, so its not really hot water, its just hotter. I try not to run straight out HOT water when I do this, I run the hot and cold side together, so the water doesn't get too hot initially. Tank water is usually about 2degrees cooler than the water being added into the tank. Would even a slight difference cause panting?

I am not doubting what you told me, I just really hope we haven't been hurting our fish.

We can't really buy another heater to stick in a bucket for water changes, I hope we don't have to do this I thought that water from the sink was fine... :/

The end result is 2' warmer, so the water being added is probably 6+ depending on volume of tank, the water you add is sufficient to increase temp. by a few degrees so it must be significantly warmer than your tank temp.

Probably I would stop using the hot water tap. If there's any copper in the hot water system I would definitely stop using it.

We all make mistakes, trust me I've made a million and counting!
So don't worry too much about that.

See previous post about standing for 24hrs and the slow pour, no extra heaters necessary. I did this when I only had one tank.

If you have a gravel vac you can set up a slow syphon return from the jug if that's easier for you.

Sorry for laughing but that was gold!
Glad you like your new taps!

 

[dragon14]

Added a few edits. I really need to make sure everything is there before I hit post! Long day...

 

[dragon14]

Hmmm I'll ask my husband if he thinks we have any copper, and maybe I should get a gh/kh test kit? Do those read for copper? I use API liquid test kits. I just didn't think I needed that test kit, so I haven't bought it. Other than the critters getting stressed out from water changes, I have observed no ill effects or anything in my tank!

The problem with the standing water for 24hrs is, it will get dang cold. About 8-10degrees colder, just sitting around room temp. That would be worse for the fish than a few degrees warmer, no?

Sometimes I get the temperature spot on, I hate when I get it too warm. I figure better too warm than too cold, but maybe I should aim for it to be slightly colder if I can't get it spot on?

We do have a gravel vac.

Haha that's ok... I am used to it :/. I sometimes misinterpret things or ask silly questions that I should know the answer to (mostly in person, not online, but, it spilled through onto here tonight, glad you got a good chuckle out of it, lol)

Thanks. Our old sink was a crapper!

 

[J.Mcpeak]

What size tank is it? 10-20g

Sometimes fish just lay about, you'll get used to their behaviours.
Panting at water change time does indicate an issue with the process though.
That isn't normal. The fish should carry on pretty much as if uninterrupted.

Long day. . . It's early here! At least I'm not getting a fright with an alarm clock in the morning!

A few degrees is ok, I think it has gotten a little confusing now!
From the beginning,
Panting fish at water change, well water, comes into house through faucet, uses hot water in mix, uses stress zyme water treatment.
Fish panting.

If that's correct, hot water use is most likely your problem.

(Extra hot water in winter mix)
Could be why it's only a recent thing.

 

[dragon14]

10g tank

We are pretty used to our fishes behaviors. Shrimp we've had maybe 3-4 days now, pygmy catfish about 2 months (I'll have to check my fish log for exactly when we got them but that sounds about right).

Thank you, I really didn't think the panting was normal, and we've stretched out the time between water changes to minimize their stress from water changes.

I think it has gotten a little confusing now too! Thank you so much for all your help!

It's not recent (the panting)... I'm sorry for not clarifying (really tired here, ugh!)... they've done this since we got them in late September? Our female betta seems to have no ill effects, though, during water changes (she was in tank with them, now she is by herself in another tank). I'll have to watch her closely after we change her water tomorrow though, but I have never noticed her panting. I just see the pygmy catfish's adorable little cheeks moving up and down and it makes me sad for them

The water is just a few degrees warmer than what is already in tank, I try not to run the water really hot from the tap before filling the pitchers, I try to run the hot and cold sides together so there is nothing extreme from the beginning, then when it seems like it matches the temperature of the tank, I start filling the pitchers.

So perplexing! :/ I think the water movement may be what is winging them out, at least part of the reason, but I am not a fish, so I could be wrong. Then again, sometimes they play in the current from our filter (we have it buffered with a sponge though, it is not a full-on current), so maybe they don't mind some water movement. I know these fish prefer low current, though.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Hmmm I'll ask my husband if he thinks we have any copper, and maybe I should get a gh/kh test kit? Do those read for copper? I use API liquid test kits. I just didn't think I needed that test kit, so I haven't bought it. Other than the critters getting stressed out from water changes, I have observed no ill effects or anything in my tank!

The problem with the standing water for 24hrs is, it will get dang cold. About 8-10degrees colder, just sitting around room temp. That would be worse for the fish than a few degrees warmer, no?

Sometimes I get the temperature spot on, I hate when I get it too warm. I figure better too warm than too cold, but maybe I should aim for it to be slightly colder if I can't get it spot on?

We do have a gravel vac.

Haha that's ok... I am used to it :/. I sometimes misinterpret things or ask silly questions that I should know the answer to (mostly in person, not online, but, it spilled through onto here tonight, glad you got a good chuckle out of it, lol)

Thanks. Our old sink was a crapper!

No, copper tests are erm, for testing copper.
GH, general hardness (normally tests for calcium & magnesium ions)
Kh, alkalinity, tests carbonate hardness
(Kh is temporary hardness removed by boiling, not sure about the water heating system variable on Kh,)
Hot water system is bad full stop.
(You can look into that, this is the thing that screams out to me as a problem)

A touch cold is better.

Crapper invented the pan! That's the number one name!
Oh and everyone has a daft day, I have sensible days from time to time.
Really though, that was golden, I properly laughed and that is seldom seen.

I think you should look into copper and shrimps, copper and inverts.

Really copper shouldn't be a concern, run the tap to let standing water through, then use. Then again I don't keep shrimp. . .
That's what I did though, run the tap on a bit first.

Has it always been this way?

 

[Brookster123]

Use prime, add it before pouring new water in..

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[J.Mcpeak]

Those cheeks are the operculum, the gill covers, under which you have the gill, these move when the fish pumps water across the gill membrane. Breathing.

Also, the cats (corydoras? Guess)
Maybe filtering particulate matter, the family will sift detritus/sand/mud etc and filter off the food, it ejects non food stuffs though the gill flap (operculum)

Maybe the rush of water is stirring up settled matter and the fish are feeding?

Be happy they are eating!
Find a way out of mixing hot water into your change.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Why use prime?

There is no ammonia present at source. It is not necessary.

 

[Brookster123]

Why use prime?

There is no ammonia present at source. It is not necessary.

Why not?! Its works wonders for everyone else aroud here.. just to rule out stress coat as a substandard conditioner? Could be something in the water that is not being neutralized?

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[J.Mcpeak]

Why not?! Its works wonders for everyone else aroud here.. just to rule out stress coat as a substandard conditioner? Could be something in the water that is not being neutralized?

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I don't use it, I have never used it. Go figure?
Stress coat was my first conditioner, then I used tetra (yellow bottle) then I went with the stronger pond mix (green bottle) as well.
My only real concern with these is the binding of heavy metals within the mix.
Yellow bottle tetra is the best I think for 1-2 tanks.
Green bottle for lots of tanks or a big tank. (It's aimed at pond users)

Now I use neither.

I wondered about the water source itself, this posts seems to be evolving into a test, now I currently think it is the hot waterside of the mix.

It could of course be a feeding fish but I know that the hot water system in your house is not ideal for aquarium use, that's why I used a kettle to boil cold side water. Even that's no good really as it changes the water dramatically.


Who knows!

 

[Andy Sager]

What I do with change sensitive fish is to drip water back into the tank from a water change. I too am on well water and I don;t always use the house faucets so I am at the will of the ground for the temp. I use 1 gal jugs ( 2 drops of PRIME, just in case ) and a piece of airline tubing with a one way valve at the end. I will set up the drip to acclimation speed ( 1-2 drops per second) then walk away and do my other things while the water drips into the tank. Since I know how much water I have removed for the change, I know that no matter what, I can't overfill the tank if I add back the exact amount I removed. This should be less stressful on your fish AND the water shouldn't alter the temp in the tank as your heater should be able warm up any cooler water faster than your adding it.

Hope this helps

 

[J.Mcpeak]

I'm dead against unnecessary supplements but to each his own.
No ammonia, no need. (Beer tokens, chi-Ching)
Nice highlight on PRIME! I'm sure there's an army in the wings!

 

[Brookster123]

I'm dead against unnecessary supplements but to each his own.
No ammonia, no need. (Beer tokens, chi-Ching)
Nice highlight on PRIME! I'm sure there's an army in the wings!

That's fine, your fish arnt bugging out whenever to wc?? Mine arnt, mine actually seem to enjoy the process quite a bit! Op is having issues, we don't really know where these issues stem from? Using prime to rule out any underlying problems certainly can't hurt?? Not like im recommending they dump coppersafe and ph+ in the tank

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[Andy Sager]

I'm dead against unnecessary supplements but to each his own.
No ammonia, no need. (Beer tokens, chi-Ching)
Nice highlight on PRIME! I'm sure there's an army in the wings!

Having a well myself, I know that, depending on the age of the pipes from the well, it's possible to get small amounts of metals into the water. PRIME is supposed to detoxify heavy metals ( amongst other things) as well as promote slime production on the fish so it's purpose is not just for ammonia reduction/ elimination. This is why we are recommending it as the OP doesn't have a concrete answer as to why.
But I guess everyone has different experiences with well water. Some can't use it straight for the well as it is devoid of dissolved oxygen. I don't seem to have that issue. Some have nitrate readings from their water. I've done a complete run of tests on mine and have no nitrates. So we need to check everything in order to rule out everything. I'm with ya on the no excess supplements. More people ruin their tanks with kindness.

 

[Aliray]

When your fingers are running under the tap they get used to the temp and aren't as sensitive. I fill up a one gal container and then check the temp with the same thermometer that is in that particular tank to make sure it is the same before adding. Then I use a dechloriator and take a 2 cup glass measuring cup and slowly pour that much at a time over my hand and over a tank decoration . That way it is more dispersed . it doesn't take long to pour it in that way. ..Alison

 

[Coursair]

I use Prime as my conditioner. I get the little bottle w dropper cap. 1 drop per Gal. Super easy to dose my water before I add to the tank.

For my Cats and other fish I add slightly Cooler water. Stimulates them to breed.

I know u have a Betta ? With them. You might try dropping water temp gradually to 76f. Might b too warm for cats or they may be scared if Betta. Mine were very active. 78f is at the very top of pygmaeus temp range.

My habrosus were kept at room temps.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=283

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[RadMax8]

I assume you only use the hot tap in winter time.
So just recently, and this is a recent event.

Don't use hot water.
It is vastly different from your cold after it's been through your heating system.
Normally it has lower Kh, could also contain elevated copper.
Hot water is not safe.
(I used to use boiled in winter until I read about Kh)

Suddenly increasing temperature. Temperature shock. If the water you add is too hot, your fish will suffer after it's pumped around a bit, lack of oxygen.
(Could explain panting)

Warm water holds less oxygen than cold water and that combines with the fact your fish need more oxygen with increasing temp as metabolism increases.

Edit, copper and shrimp is not good. You may be on PVC for your boiler but normally copper is used somewhere. Copper loves hot water.

I don't think you understand how well water works in the US. They don't go out to a well and pull a bucket up. There is a water pump that pulls water from an underground well. It comes into the house, through the pipes, and out through the faucet at the sink. This water is not treated, it comes straight from the ground.

That said, Dragon it would be beneficial for you to put a little bit of water treatment in with each pitcher you put in. Most people here recommend Seachem Prime. It takes care of chlorine and other metals. You're doing pretty well trying to match your temperature. I would imagine your fish just get a little stressed out doing water changes. Your 10 gal tank isn't that large and they might just be a little skittish.


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[J.Mcpeak]

Stress Coat adresses heavy metal binding, most of these type of products do that.
You are correct, I have done little research on American well systems.

(I am wise enough to realise you've given up on hoisting buckets!)
That's funny though! Have a biscuit!
I think you may have misinterpreted what I have written radmax.

From API
STRESS COAT, with the healing power of Aloe Vera, is scientifically proven to reduce fish stress and heal damaged tissue. It forms a synthetic slime coating and replaces the natural secretion of slime that is interrupted by handling, shipping, fish fighting, or other forms of stress. Helps reduce susceptibility to disease and infection. Helps heal torn fins and skin wounds. Reduces electrolyte loss. Also works instantly to remove chlorine and chloramines from tap water. Neutralizes heavy metals. Use when starting a new aquarium, adding or changing water and adding fish. Scientifically proven to reduce fish stress by 40%. Scientifically proven to heal wounds and promote regeneration of damaged fish tissue.

Exactly the same as prime. Two virtually identical products. On paper they do the same thing.

Having a well myself, I know that, depending on the age of the pipes from the well, it's possible to get small amounts of metals into the water. PRIME is supposed to detoxify heavy metals ( amongst other things) as well as promote slime production on the fish so it's purpose is not just for ammonia reduction/ elimination. This is why we are recommending it as the OP doesn't have a concrete answer as to why.
But I guess everyone has different experiences with well water. Some can't use it straight for the well as it is devoid of dissolved oxygen. I don't seem to have that issue. Some have nitrate readings from their water. I've done a complete run of tests on mine and have no nitrates. So we need to check everything in order to rule out everything. I'm with ya on the no excess supplements. More people ruin their tanks with kindness.

I know you have all the right experience on this one Andy. Plus you have a good idea of American water systems, given your past you should have!

That's fine, your fish arnt bugging out whenever to wc?? Mine arnt, mine actually seem to enjoy the process quite a bit! Op is having issues, we don't really know where these issues stem from? Using prime to rule out any underlying problems certainly can't hurt?? Not like im recommending they dump coppersafe and ph+ in the tank

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I'm flying the Red Cross with ya buddy!