water parameters?????

[jimmy c]

ok, so mid dec some of my fish started to die. did some water tests and thought it was ammonia poisioning. bought zeolite (ammonia remover) seemed to go away....

then mid jan it came back. just 1 or 2 dead fish in the tank.

its a 72 gal with about 20 africans, Fluval fx5 filter (they were in a 140gal untill it broke) and was suppost to be temporary. my water water test(s) are as follows....

tap water test was ok, ph of 7.5

Dec 22/09
ph- 5
gh- 31 (31 drops into the water to make it change colour)
KH - 0-1

Jan 24 2010
ph - 5
GH - 41 (gone up since last test by 10)
KH - 1
No2 - <0.3 mg/L

Jan 26
ph.7.5

so i can do water tests but i cant grasp the consept of biocarbonates, carbonates, alkalinity, buffering etc. also, i bought some Kent Marine Cichlid Buffer. used it and it raised my ph to 7.5.

going to do another watertest today but i need some water parameter basics 101! i do regular waterchanges about 2x a month about 1/4 tank.

Ive been keeping fish for about the last 5 or so years in a few tanks but some of these cichlids I have had from day 1 (like the 1st fishs that I have ever bought) so i kinda seem to know what im doing.

Im just straight confused with water test results, dont know how to raise the KH, ph etc or why they fall low.

I read that if you raise the ph is good but if you raise the KH the PH will follow? what is buffering?

any links and info would be helpfull

 

[bs6749]

I am concerned about your pH and your pH swings. Your pH is low for African cichlids and a low pH will also convert toxic ammonia into harmless ammonium ion by allowing the ammonia molecule to accept an additional hydrogen ion.

pH is the measure of H+ ions in solution, or ions that are "free to bond" with molecules which may want to bond with them. The lower the pH, the higher the concentration of these ions, and the more likely the interactions (collsions) between molecules. Nitrogeneous molecules such as ammonia are readily accepting of H+ ions and will form the ammonium ion under acidic conditions, which favors the formation of the harmless ion.

When you don't have any buffering in your tank, the pH is able to swing from a low, acidic pH, to a higher and more alkaline pH. When this happens, the equilibrium between ammonium ions and ammonia molecules shifts, so that the formation of the toxic ammonia molecules is favored. You are basically forming ammonia molecules when you change your water with alkaline water and are poisoning your fish.

You nitrite levels are high...they should be at 0, especially since the tank has been set up for a long time. It also tells me that what is going on in your tank is exactly as I describe it because nitrites won't appear without first being ammonia molecules (which bacteria consume and produce nitrites from) and ammonia molecule levels are extremely low in an acidic pH. This tells me that your problems started after you decided to do a water change, which is common and called "old tank syndrome". What also tells me this is that you had an increase in your GH, which would be the result of either adding more water with an incredibly higher GH, or by evaporations losses (dry Canadian air) of the water, which would increase the GH concentration, and you must have tested before you added more water to the tank.

As I hinted at earlier, buffering is the resistence to change in pH and KH is the measure of the buffering capacity (how much resistence there is to change). KH measures carbonate ions, which are the ones that buffer your pH. I strongly recommend increasing both your KH and your pH, however you are going to have to do it properly.

One way that I would suggest would be to drain 80-90% of the tank water. Make sure you have clean water (no ammonia, nitrites or nitrates) and mix in some baking soda, which will provide buffering (KH). Africans like an alkaline pH and you should have high buffering capacity (KH) for them so don't be afraid to add lots of baking soda to your water (in a bucket first) and test that to see where the level is. If you simply increase the pH and KH of your water in the tank you are going to further poison your fish.

I also wold recommend doing at least WEEKLY water changes of 15 gallons (at a minimum) with your current setup. 20 Africans in a 72 could be a lot, then again it might be fine. It depends on the size of the fish in the tank. Good luck and I hope you don't incur any further losses.

 

[jimmy c]

thanks for the HUGE amount of info.

Ive been reading alot about crushed coral as substrate in a african tank. any ideas or views about this? if my ph in my tap water is 7.5. and i have read that crushed coral tops out @ about 8.3 and would also help with the KH.

im setting up 2 tanks today to hold the fish in the 72 gal, i need to redo some silicone in the tank, and was thinking about using crushed coral for the substrate. basically a new look for the tank and that crushed coral would bring my parameters to the level i would need them.

 

[mfdrookie516]

crushed coral is great for buffering the ph, but if you have do do a large water change and your tap ph is not very close to the tanks ph, you'll have to treat the water with baking soda before filling the tank back up.

 

[jimmy c]

looking from old water tests that i have on pieces of paper, my tap water ph is about 7.5, old tank tests were 8ph in early to mid 2009.

thanks

 

[bs6749]

If your water comes from a stream instead of the ground, then this makes perfect sense. Your local water can fluctuate seasonally.

Crushed coral would be fine (great actually) for an African cichlid tank. If your pH is already 7.5 then you will need to figure out what kind of buffering capacity (KH) your tap water has. Using something like the Cichlid Buffer that you have can work for treating your water. Over time the crushed coral will help to provide additional KH to the tank.

 

[jimmy c]

thanks everyone for the info..

Im on city water not stream or well. from what i was reading i had "old tank syndrome" just didnt/couldnt understand what to do to fix it. I was never good @ water chemistry.....

i bought about 100lbs of crushed coral yesterday, went to my moms to pick up a old tank i had there for a temp tank while i redo the 72 gal..... and i broke it loading it into my truck... gggrrrrrrrrrr!

time to clean the coral, get some tanks/large buckets set up for temp homes for the fish and get this thing going.

 

[bs6749]

But your city will get the water from a source, either a runoff or water that has passed though layers of limestone. If it's fluctuating, then they must get it from runoff.

 

[jimmy c]

k so its been a while and now i have some questions.

(i have another post in DYI section, fishtank reno and reseal)

the tank is up and running for the last week. filled it up 1/4 with old water from the buckets where the fish were and another 1/4 of new tap water.

the tank is now of water, added 1/2 my fish 6 days ago, and the other 1/2 today. im probably overstocked but need to get a 2nd tank going.

my water test is as follows.

Ph - 8
GH 27 drops
KH 4 (so does this equal a dh of 2?)

what should my water parameters be? high GH/KH or low? im thinkin higher the better? my test kit says if the water changes on the 1st drop of chemicals its conisdered extremely soft.

 

[jimmy c]

so i made the last post then i look on the net and found these on a webite for africans.
10 - 18 KH
12 - 20 GH

so i guess my kh goes up and gh needs to come down?

heres another site i was reading up on, may help http://www.malawimayhem.com/articles_chemistry_water_chemistry.shtml

what is your tank @?