Quarantine tub constantly cycling. Water being transferred to new tank.

[Tank120]

My quarantine tank with my GBD Oranda is in a constant state of cycling. Everyday her ammonia, and nitrates are mid-range. If I miss 1 day of at least 50% water change, they travel much higher. There is never anymore nitrate than is found in my tap water. It is obvious that it never has developed aerobic bacteria to break down the nitrites into nitrates. I tried adding beneficial bacteria but it never grabs hold due to the frequent water changes. Bubbles is fed 3 times a day, 3-4 pellets at a time. She always consumes all food.
Tub is 30 gallon with Penguin 100 filter with bio-wheel. Floor is swept daily during water changes. Filter media is always cleaned with tank water and bio-wheel is never cleaned. There is a heater set at 68° to prevent temperature fluctuations that would cause her more stress.

She will be moving to a 30 gallon tank soon. I will be moving my little one-eyed Lionhead in with her as he has no depth perception and has grown very little in the past few months.

Bubbles can see. I have been testing how well. I dropped food at intervals over a period of time. It looks as if she can see 3-4 inches away so I would classify her as being extremely near sighted.

The plan for the new tank is to leave it bare bottom so they cand find food easily. I will be dealing with the same cycling problems that I am now. Her water will be transferred but it will basically make no difference.

Since I will now be dealing with improper cyling with no substrate to help aerobic bacteria to develop, what will I need to do to develop beneficial bacteria to finish the cycle?

At this point, I think there is not much chance that Bubble's eyes will pop, nor will the nitrogen be reabsorbed, so this will be her lifetime home.

I do not know yet what type of filter the tank will have so I do not know if I will be able to use any biomedia. All I know about the setup is that the hood contains lights and the filter. I do not know if it will be be possible to add a biofilter.

Where do I go from here?

Nitrites mid-range. Spellchecker still interfering with my text.

 

[tylermakin]

I wouldn't worry about vision even a fish without eyes can find food. I'd worry about beneficial bacteria and not having a substrate.

Floor is swept daily? The bottom of the tank? Only place left for your beneficial bacteria to grow is your filter and the glass. Your disturbing a lot of your growth and cycling. A prefilter sponge will help this a little. Stop sweeping the bottom lol use a gravel cleaner to suck the poop up.

Adding substrate will benefit your tank, I am not understanding why your not using it.

Also, bio-media like matrix by seachem can be sprinkled across the bottom of the tank sparingly as a pretty good substrate, reduces toxicity and grows bacteria.

 

[Tank120]

Lol..I do use a gravel cleaner to suck up the poop

My daughter and son-in-law brought the tank and stand yesterday. It is an Eclipse, deep, long and has a short width. The hood did not say which model it was. I did a lot of research and was disappointed to find out that it is an Eclipse 1 and only a 15 gallon tank. Both sight impaired fish are small so it should work for awhile. Since it is a Marineland Eclipse, it does have a bio-wheel. I am soaking it in water full of beneficial bacteria additive until I get the cartridges for it. They are a long rectangular cartridge. I have never seen this one in the store, Rite-Size G, so I ordered a nine pack. I soaked the tank, hood and decorations in vinegar water all day. I wiped down the light assembly and soaked the light cover. There was a calcium build-up close to the top of the tank even after I soaked and scrubbed it so I used a rag with straight vinegar to wet the areas and will work on them again tomorrow.

I have spent the past 72 hours removing and replacing Bubble's tub water 1 gallon at a time, every half-hour, so now finally I have completely turned over the water in the quarantine tub twice. I am finally free of nitrites. I added beneficial bacterial additive to her tank in preparation for moving the water to the new tank. If the bio-wheel doesn't help finish cycling the tank, I will have to consider putting in a fine substrate which would not allow the food to settle into crevices like gravel would.

Does anyone know of a safe way to condition the black hood so that is the original dark black color. It is dulled and would look much better if I could use something like mineral oil or some safe product to enhance the color? What would you use?

 

[tylermakin]

The moor is probably stressed. :-/ colour will return prob

Bio wheels alone don't hold too much media it may not be enough alone.

Beneficial bacteria I mean... Sorry I'm tired

Does it have a media basket or cartridge?

 

[Tank120]

Well, I know that many people, especially those with marine tanks, may choose to leave them bare bottom. I realize they have live rock but I have seen bare bottom freshwater tanks too.

I have tested Bubble's eyesight and have determined that she is extremely near-sighted with the corneal bubbles. She can see only 2-4" in front of her. To find food that has floated, she just sweeps the floor until she finds it.

Midge is a very small Lionhead. He is missing one eye so he has no depth perception. He also has trouble catching food and finding it. I can drop food directly in front of him and he cannot follow it with his eye and catch it. His tank mates have gotten so much larger than him that they have gobbled up pretty much everything before it hits the bottom. He does love his broccoli though. He gets up right to the clip like the big kids.

The idea of a bare bottom is to make sure that they are getting all of their food and hopefully start growing. Midge is so cute but is nowhere as large as her sibling, who was the same size when we brought them home.

 

[tylermakin]

Add a living java fern or java moss wall.

That plant will grow in the dark, requires no fertilizer, as basic of a plant as it gets really. It would help give you better water parameters

Also fish kinda like to snack on it some, so +1 to food

Also prefilter sponge like I said before. It will help with beneficial bacteria growth, cleaning your filter clean also.

Keeping your filter clean*

 

[cfosgate]

Many people in the hobby run bare-bottomed tanks for quarantine or breeding purposes. Most use an air-driven sponge filter in these tanks to support the nitrification process. It's the cheapest and easiest solution. In a QT tank without stock you need to feed the bacteria either with fish food or ammonia to keep them alive and substantial when there aren't fish present.

 

[Tank120]

I am feeding the bacteria that the bio-wheel is aging in. Have also thought about soaking the first new cartridge in beneficial bacteria. I would just add some of the seasoned water from my 120 but Bubbles still has some bubbles bursting in her tail and it leaves small hemorrhages. I do not want to inadvertently expose her to any illness. The java moss wall is an excellent idea. However, my Orandas decided that it was quite tasty. I was surprised since it was listed as a plant that goldfish won't eat. The little ones might not bother it. Do you use screen or netting to support the moss? I do have Java Fern in the big tank and constantly have babies breaking off so that would be no problem. Anubius also does very well in my big tank. I can get one and tie it to the decorative rock that will be going in.

An air-driven, sponge filter is a superb idea. I have already ordered another air pump and I just found the filter at a great price. I wish I would have thought of this or read your post before I placed an order this morning.

Unfortunately, I will never have a dedicated quarantine tank. The one Bubbles is in has been up for 2 months, sitting on a chair. I just don't have the extra room. The tub is in the way where it is now.

Thank you for all of the help. You have provided me with some great ideas.

 

[tylermakin]

Your welcome.

And a lot of fish will feast on the dead bits of java moss. Usually they are just trying to help xD

 

[Tank120]

I had purchased a square that was growing on wire mesh. They ate the whole dang think. I think I will try it again though. They used to be finicky eaters but are consuming quite a variety of vegetables now.

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[Tank120]

Usually when it's not normally in the tank and first introduced they will consume it quite abit. Sometimes you need x amount of something to offset the feeding of it. Like shrimps, x amount of colony to reproduce as fast as they are being snacked on until you end up with a constant supply.

You will probably find as I did as time goes by they will eat it less and less

It is expensive for just a small amount. Where did you get yours?

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I usually get my java moss from local fish store. 6.99 per small bag. It's not exactly cheap. It helps if you know people with planted tanks growing it out who can give you some. Maybe try to find a more local forum ask ask about plants in general. You never know what you may find. Sometimes a much more reasonable price then your lfs or even free.

You can also try plants of the leafy variety. Java fern example.

Has your parameters improved?

 

[Tank120]

Stopped cleaning the walls of the tub, changed to a filter with sponge, charcoal and biomedia. Added beneficial bacteria to the sponge during assembly. Changing 10 gallons of water everyday and cleaning the floor extremely well with the wand (she is messy). I am now able to keep her parameters at pH-8.0, ammonia-0, nitrites-.15 and nitrates at 5.0 (which is the level of our tap water).

I am going to cycle her new tank a couple of more weeks to make sure it is ready. I soaked the bio-wheel in beneficial bacteria for a week while I was waiting for the filter cartridges and added the initial 5 gallons from her tub. I gave it the first good cleaning this morning, mainly to suck up a little of the food debris. The parameters are about the same as her tub. Didn't have a huge nitrite spike. Nitrates are staying between 5 and 10.

I think I will look on e-bay to see if anyone has a good price for Java Moss.

Stupid question: Besides rinsing is there any other safe way to ensure that new plants aren't harboring bacterial disease?

Thank you Tyler

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[tylermakin]

I've herd people doing salt baths. I've never bothered myself.

I'm glad your water is healthy for your fish.

 

[Tank120]

Thank you

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[jlk]

I've herd people doing salt baths. I've never bothered myself.

Not for plants. Depending on the type of plant, you can do a potassium permanganate bath, a dilute bleach dip or a dilute peroxide (or even Excel) dip.

Goldfish and any type of mosses tend to not mix well. It's something they simply can not resist!

 

[tylermakin]

Be sure to feed them fresh blanched veggies daily and they will stay away from your plants. They may still uproot a small plant every so often but there is not much you can do unless you can get them to leave it alone long enough for the plant to get sufficiently rooted.

If you want to continue with Java Moss try Superglue GEL instead of string.

A lot of fish like to nibble on moss / plants.

Also low percent doses 1 - 2 - 3 percent salt "dips" for no longer then 30 seconds will kill parasites and hitchhikers. If your plant is rooted, don't submerge roots. Seeing as how it's moss, if your trying it out just submerge the entirety of it and rinse it in some plain tank water before adding it to your tank. Your plant will probably be fine from the exposure, like I said tho. Not really anything I would be concerned about tho.

Goldfish also notorious for uprooting things on accident while looking for food.

 

[Tank120]

I found some supposedly Goldfish safe plants on E-bay. Either plants they won't eat or plants that grow faster than they can eat it.

I will put Duckweed in Bubble's tank to multiply and the when it gets very thick I will transfer some to the 120. She will barely eat a little broccoli so I don't think she will bother it.

I have decided to put a fine, plant friendly substrate in Bubble's tank.

My Orandas and Ranchu don't bother the anubias or Java Fern.

I feed them Cobalt Aquatics Premium Goldfish Food in the morning. The pellets are extremely small so the Corys love it too. At lunchtime they get a pinch of soaked NLS Goldfish food with added spirulina pellets. For supper at about 7:00, a half-hour before the lights shut off, they get a fruit or veggie. I alternate between the two each day. They like broccoli, spinach, green beans, peas, carrots, mandarin oranges and bananas. I also throw in 3 algae wafers for my bristle nose and rubber nose Plecostomus.

Thanks for your advice Jess and Tyler

 

[tylermakin]

You seem to have the situation under control. Your welcome

 

[jlk]

Also low percent doses 1 - 2 - 3 percent salt "dips" for no longer then 30 seconds will kill parasites and hitchhikers. If your plant is rooted, don't submerge roots. Seeing as how it's moss, if your trying it out just submerge the entirety of it and rinse it in some plain tank water before adding it to your tank. Your plant will probably be fine from the exposure, like I said tho. Not really anything I would be concerned about tho.

One to three percent salt dips are quite high for fw plants. The average salinity of the ocean is 3 to 3.5%. While something hardy such as anubias may tolerate this briefly other delicate plants will melt. Wisteria, mosses and other fine stemmed plants can not even tolerate being kept in minimal salinity levels of .1 to .3%. Salt will also not kill all bacteria, parasites or hitch hikers. There are much more plant-friendly options such as I mentioned above that offer actual actual disinfection benefits. Quarantining plants is also a smart consideration because there are things pp, bleach or peroxide will not kill.

 

[HN1]

A quarantine tank for a plant? Get the hell outta here. Worry wort much? And it's not motor oil a little rinse won't kill it. Thanks.

I'd like to see your "quarantine" tank for plants....

Bleach - salt - damage your plants health. But works. IMO a waste of time but feel free. Usually a visual inspection for algae, larvae eggs. Anything foreign to the plant pick off any during bits ect plant.

Dieing bits*

Also ich is easy to spot on healthy new plants. If the tank or where you get the plant from isn't infected your fine.

I've merged your repetitive posts. Please put thought into what you want to say and say it all at once in the future.

Most serious keepers of planted aquaria QT plants. There are many pests and pathogens that get introduced via plants. More than via fish I would guess. Have you ever seen what a serious planted tank looks like? Why jeopardize that? Please do some google time before you scoff at a solid recommendation.