Please Advise On My New Tank.

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Any amount of ammonia is toxic to fish.

Glass tops on a SW tank is not the best idea. They prevent O2 exchange which helps keep your PH stable. Heaters are always a good idea to have running in your system . Do you check your water temp daily? What is it? What does it go down to at night?

You have been provided some very good suggestions. It sounds to me like your LFS is not as up-to-date with their information as they should be. Take the advice you have been given here and slow down some and start over. It will be much easier to do now rather then later.

Hi,

This is what I will do. I will leave the two clowns in and take all inverts out to LFS and hopefully they will accomodate them. Then I will wait to get the spike in ammonia and nitrite and then wait until they go down and nitrate start showing. I will add another 100 lbs of live rocks in the mean time. The temperature is 76 degrees during the day. At night I have no idea but the house is conditioned at 75 degrees all day long. Dai

 

[roka64]

Adding the cured LR might help a whole lot.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Adding the cured LR might help a whole lot.

I know this sounds abnormal but I was advised one time that pet's urine can be used to start the cycle since it contains ammonia. I believe 5 ml per 50 gallons. Any truth to this? Dai

 

[roka64]

Yeah the presence of ammonia will kick off the cycle. I'm not sure on the amount of urine per gallon, as I would opt for 1 raw, unseasoned jumbo shrimp per 30G of water at a cost of about $.17 depending on your location....

 

[dskidmore]

I know this sounds abnormal but I was advised one time that pet's urine can be used to start the cycle since it contains ammonia. I believe 5 ml per 50 gallons. Any truth to this? Dai

Could be done. More commonly people use pure ammonia instead, some hardware stores sell a glass cleaner that is pure ammonia with no surfacants. Personally, I prefer to just dump in a dead shrimp (like you'd get at the grocery store), a chunk of vegtable, or flake food. I keep testing the water to make sure I'm adding enough matter to spike my ammonia, but not overwhem the bacteria.

The advantage to using a purer form of ammonia like the glass cleaner or the pet urine, is you can calculate the amount of added ammonia, and test the water the next day to see how much of it was metabolized by the bacteria. The whole foods however may contain more nutrients that will help the bacteria grow faster. Diffrnent people have diffrent opinions on which is best.

 

[Ziggy953]

I think your temp is a bit low as well. I keep my tank at 80. You may want to consider gettting those heaters and keeping the temp closer to 80.

If you can get all of the fish out of the tank that would be better. Cycling with a few raw shrimp is far better.

 

[dskidmore]

Here's an out of the box suggestion. I'd ask others to weigh in.. You have a skimmer in you sump, right? Sooo.. move everything to the sump that you can. turn off the pump and maintain everyone in the sump. Cycle the tank, get the water parms back and move everyone back.

I'm not sure how that would work. The sump would then have super-oxygenated water, but are all the nitrogen compounds removed by skimmers? I didn't think they were. I think skimmers only take out larger molecules.

Skimming Basics 101: Understanding Your Skimmer by Frank Marini, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com

In general, moving the criters from a larger uncycled tank to a smaller one is a bad idea. They would then have less water to dilute their waste in.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Yeah the presence of ammonia will kick off the cycle. I'm not sure on the amount of urine per gallon, as I would opt for 1 raw, unseasoned jumbo shrimp per 30G of water at a cost of about $.17 depending on your location....

Hi,

On day 1, I put some smashed shrimps as well as some meaty pieces to start the cycle. I also feed the cleaners daily with some very fine seafood pieces (uncooked) too and I have been doing it for 4 weeks now. I was VERY careful not to get the ammonia spike. Now looks like I need to get an ammonia spike. Dai

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Just weighing in, and echoing other's advice.

Short and sweet...

Take all the stuff (corals/fish/cleanup crew) back to the LFS. Cycle your tank (you WANT to see an ammonia/nitrite spike). Then start stocking the tank SLOWLY. While your tank is cycling, do the research on this hobby that I suggested earlier.

While it may seem like you have a lot of $$ invested in this tank at this point, and it's too late to "start over"... it really isn't. With that size tank, you've just started spending money and the longer you put off setting the tank up properly, the more money you'll waste.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

More disasters!

Hi all,

I went to the second LFS (that specializes in SW) and had them tested the water. Again, nothing out of the ordinary and I was reassured that "your tank IS cycled. Period". I inquired about delayed cycling and I was advised that for the tank of a month old with LR and LS, that would not be possible. I was advised to remove 30 gallons and replaced with premixed RO water and I did that right after I got home. I am to return to the store for another 30 gallons of premixed RO water today. This morning, I found two clowns that were fine yesterday barely movable and they were on top of the surface. The strange thing is that after I changed the water, I fed them with some fine smashed raw shrimp and the clowns attacked it like there is no tommorow! Even the canary blenny joined in the fray. But this morning was a total different picture. They are barely clinging to life! I removed the weaker one and placed in the sump in case it dies, I can remove it easier. Looks like another casualty coming soon. I tested the water and again, nothing out of the norm. Yesterday, the LFS did extensive testing on my water and all came out normal. In fact I was told that my water is "outstanding". But the concencus here is my tank hasn't start the cycle yet. You can see I am pretty confused here. I wonder if the plastic decors were contaminated? Or the bad municipal water maybe? One good note, on my sump area, there are dark purple, mauve algea growing. I have kept SW since 2001 but fish only. I practically knew nothing about cycling then but my fish did lived a little bit longer than a week. That Tang's death was a speed record. Now where did I put that Jim Bean? DP

 

[CaptainAhab]

Well here's the score in the bottom of the 9th. Practically eveyone here has opined that your tank has NOT cycled. Your 2 local fish stores have said it has and convinced you to BUY more water from them. You're down 3 fish and now fishless.

So, the score is:

Fish Store 3 (~ + $100)
Dr Dai 0(~ - $100+)

3 balls
2 strikes
2 out
Bottom of the 9th

Here's the windup and the pitch..................

Your move Doc

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Well here's the score in the bottom of the 9th. Practically eveyone here has opined that your tank has NOT cycled. Your 2 local fish stores have said it has and convinced you to BUY more water from them. You're down 3 fish and now fishless.

So, the score is:

Fish Store 3 (~ + $100)
Dr Dai 0(~ - $100+)

3 balls
2 strikes
2 out
Bottom of the 9th

Here's the windup and the pitch..................

Your move Doc

I think I am gonna to thrown in the bat and the towel too. It's time to kick the bucket sez I. How about changing another 30 gallons out and replaced with premixed RO water as advised. Should I hold off on it? Dai

 

[CaptainAhab]

Well, since you're now fishless your options have certainly opened up. I'd figure out what you want the fate of those inverts to be. Then dose ammonia and track how long it takes to drop to zero. The nitrite too. Then you'll truly know where in your cycle you are and can go from there.

No real sense I can see in changing the water at this point unless you are a partial owner in one or more LFS's that you frequent.

BTW: If nothing else, your sense of humor and persistance is to be commended through all of this. If it was me, well let's not go there.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Well, since you're now fishless your options have certainly opened up. I'd figure out what you want the fate of those inverts to be. Then dose ammonia and track how long it takes to drop to zero. The nitrite too. Then you'll truly know where in your cycle you are and can go from there.

No real sense I can see in changing the water at this point unless you are a partial owner in one or more LFS's that you frequent.

BTW: If nothing else, your sense of humor and persistance is to be commended through all of this. If it was me, well let's not go there.

Well my humor is to hide my deep emotional anguish that I am going through. It is a coping mechanism to deal with undesirable dire consequences since I started this salt water thing. Should have bought one of those virtue aquarium instead to play on my TV. Time to refill my Jim Bean sez I. You forgot that I still have one lethal arsenal left. That is the canary blenny that comes out couple of hours a day to feed. Dai

 

[CaptainAhab]

I'd still get him out (back to the store or a friend) and verify the cycle by dosing and charting.

 

[cmor1701d]

At this point all your out is the cost of the livestock. You still have the tank and all the other equipment. I would take the livestock to the store or another cycled tank for now. Get some UNCURED LR to start your cycle (order a box from Aquarium Fish: Tropical Freshwater Fish and Saltwater Fish for Home Aquariums), and cycle your tank properly. During the few weeks it will take to cycle your tank think about what you want your tank to look like, and what fish you would like to keep. Then check for compatibility of the fish and post your thoughts here for comment.

Take the time to do it the old fashioned (correct) way and you will end up enjoying your tank for many years.

 

[dskidmore]

I'd still get him out (back to the store or a friend) and verify the cycle by dosing and charting.

If the store or a friend is not an option, this is an excellent opportunity to start a QT. You will have to do daily water changes to keep the fish alive with an uncycled QT, but the water changes in the QT will be smaller, your big tank will be free to start a fishless cycle, or at least test your cycle if it really is cycled as the fish store claims.

After the problems with your main tank are sorted out, then you can use the QT when adding more fish in the future.

The fact that a water change helped your fish says there is definately something wrong with your tank water. You could start by removing those plastic decorations you mentioned, but the absolutely most common source of these problems is the ammonia cycle, so we need to at least test your cycle. (We test the ammonia cycle by adding ammonia, and seeing how long it takes to dissipate.)

 

[roka64]

That's a great idea!

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Update on my Tank Progress

If the store or a friend is not an option, this is an excellent opportunity to start a QT. You will have to do daily water changes to keep the fish alive with an uncycled QT, but the water changes in the QT will be smaller, your big tank will be free to start a fishless cycle, or at least test your cycle if it really is cycled as the fish store claims.

After the problems with your main tank are sorted out, then you can use the QT when adding more fish in the future.

The fact that a water change helped your fish says there is definately something wrong with your tank water. You could start by removing those plastic decorations you mentioned, but the absolutely most common source of these problems is the ammonia cycle, so we need to at least test your cycle. (We test the ammonia cycle by adding ammonia, and seeing how long it takes to dissipate.)

Hello all,

The clown in the sump is still alive and he appears to be a little bit better. The other clown hangs at the corner all day but still alive. Last night the canary blenny came out to chomp then dissappeared into the sand. I feed the aquarium daily by putting in the finely chewed seafood like shirmps or lobster meat. The ammonia, NO3,NO2 still zero. I bought a 10 gallon tank and I will put the fish in the QT along with the LS and LR. Can I test the cycle by doing it in the QT (putting ammonia and see how long it dissappears)? Of course there will be no fish in there. Dai

 

[dskidmore]

I would leave the LS and LR in the main tank. Perhaps save your favorite specimen, but you need that medium for your cycle. (Unless you want to add more live or base rock, cycle with that, and then add these pieces back on top. In which case still leave the LS in the main tank.)