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Old 06-20-2008, 10:41 AM   #71
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You are indeed unique then. I have never heard tell of anyone using tapwater as a source, in a cycled tank (+ adding the raw shrimp) and have 0 nitrates.

Must be those bad fish then.

Good luck with it. I'm out
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:41 AM   #72
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To farther explain Kurt's explanation.
If you have a cycled tank the rotting shrimp will produce ammonia which will quickly be converted to nitrItes and nitrAtres.
If it is not cycled, you will see a spike in the ammonia, then decline and a spike in nitrItes, then decline with a rise in nitrAtes.
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:57 AM   #73
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To farther explain Kurt's explanation.
If you have a cycled tank the rotting shrimp will produce ammonia which will quickly be converted to nitrItes and nitrAtres.
If it is not cycled, you will see a spike in the ammonia, then decline and a spike in nitrItes, then decline with a rise in nitrAtes.
Hello all,

First let me say that I am extremely honored to have all the help here and I am deeply touched. If I have offended anyone please accept my apology. I do understand the nitrogen cycle as the tank (if cycled by now) should have some reading in Nitrate. And if it is not, then ammonia and nitrite should be there as the bacteria is not there enough to break them down. The fact that all readings are zero lead me to conclude:

1. The water is "virgin" meaning there is no breaking down of food debris to ammonia and nitrite. Impossible senerio.

2. The cycle is done and the bacteria is doing such a good job that there is no trace of nitrate. Possible maybe?

3. All the test kits (mine and LFSs) are defective. Possible but highly unlikely.

4. My tank is undergoing "extended delayed cycle". Don't know what to think on this one.

I wish I could dose the main tank with ammonia and see if nitrate level increases as that indicates the presence of bacteria. However, with the fish and corals there, it is not a practical option now. I will keep you all posted on what I find out as I will bring another water sample to LFS today. I know all of this sounds crazy but there has to be an explaination to this. A five week old tank got to have some readings of ammonia, NO2/3 somewhere during its course but somehow I wasn't able to record it. Dai
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Old 06-20-2008, 01:41 PM   #74
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Order some Salifert test kits for Nitrite and Nitrate on the Internet unless you can find them locally. There should be a white sticker with the expiration date of the test kit on the top of each box. Read the directions then run the tests and post the results after several days of testing.

Have you added any additional rock (base or live) to your tank yet?

You have said several times that you add pieces of raw shrimp to teh tank. How big are the pieces. You need to add about 3-5 complete raw shrimp to the tank to have enough rotting matter to create the spike in ammonia. You can skip the shrimp and add 45 pounds or so of uncured live rock. That will have enough rotting matter to create the spike. 60 pounds of rock is not enough in a 125 gallon tank to sustain the amount of bacteria you will need when your tank is populated.

You have also posted timelines wth Day 1 informaton a couple of times but I think the timeframes are completely different. Can you post a single continuous timeline of everything you did? For instance, when did you add the raw shrimp for the first time? Was the first day you set up the tank or 5 weeks later when you were advised to do so on this site?

In your next post please tell us the current condition of everything in the tank:
How much rock?
Any thing still living?

Then let us know what steps you are planning on taking next.
Then don't do anything until you have had a few replies from the folks here who are trying to help you get a succesful tank going.
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Old 06-20-2008, 01:53 PM   #75
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No matter what the LFS folks say, don't buy anything but test kits, salt, and water until you figure out what is going on with these fish/inverts. Even if the tank really is pristine, you don't want any existing fish disease to infect new acquisitions.
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Old 06-20-2008, 02:38 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by cmor1701d View Post
Order some Salifert test kits for Nitrite and Nitrate on the Internet unless you can find them locally. There should be a white sticker with the expiration date of the test kit on the top of each box. Read the directions then run the tests and post the results after several days of testing.

Have you added any additional rock (base or live) to your tank yet?

You have said several times that you add pieces of raw shrimp to teh tank. How big are the pieces. You need to add about 3-5 complete raw shrimp to the tank to have enough rotting matter to create the spike in ammonia. You can skip the shrimp and add 45 pounds or so of uncured live rock. That will have enough rotting matter to create the spike. 60 pounds of rock is not enough in a 125 gallon tank to sustain the amount of bacteria you will need when your tank is populated.

You have also posted timelines wth Day 1 informaton a couple of times but I think the timeframes are completely different. Can you post a single continuous timeline of everything you did? For instance, when did you add the raw shrimp for the first time? Was the first day you set up the tank or 5 weeks later when you were advised to do so on this site?

In your next post please tell us the current condition of everything in the tank:
How much rock?
Any thing still living?

Then let us know what steps you are planning on taking next.
Then don't do anything until you have had a few replies from the folks here who are trying to help you get a succesful tank going.
Hello,

On Day 1, as soon as there was water in the tank, I inocculated with fine pieces of raw shrimp twice daily (am before going work and at dinner time). Each serving is small about 1/5 teaspoonful. The reason I did not do more is because I figured with LR and LS, I did not think I needed much.
Once I put in the cleaning crew on Week 2, I still do twice daily but more in amount (1/2 teaspoonful). I continue this to this present time. There is 4 inches of LS (crushed corals and Carreabean live sand) and 60 lbs of live cured rocks covered with coraline algea. There are now two percula clowns (alive but hang at the corner with little appetite), one canary blenny that eats a lot but only comes out few hours a day. Three colonies of false corals (brown and green) alive but do not open up like in the LFS, two leather finger corals that seem to open up well, 8 mushrooms (brown and green) that open up well. All the cleaning crew are alive although all the snails tend to huddle at one corner.

The plan is to test the water daily to see if anything changes. Since I have no place to put away my fish and corals, I can't do a forced ammonia spike right now. I mentioned about that to my LFS and was advised that there is no need to do so since the tank is cycled. They also told me that 1-1.5 lbs LR/gallon for proper bacteria production is old school of thought and is no longer practiced by today's aquarists. Yesterday I was advised to buy some fish as there is no need to wait for a cycle that is already here. Dai

PS: Do you think it is a good idea for me to print this thread and show the LFS people the situation here? I don't want to question their expertise as they have been really helpful with me. However, someone has to be incorrect regarding whether the tank is cycled or not. Dai
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Old 06-20-2008, 03:15 PM   #77
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...I mentioned about that to my LFS and was advised that there is no need to do so since the tank is cycled. They also told me that 1-1.5 lbs LR/gallon for proper bacteria production is old school of thought and is no longer practiced by today's aquarists. Yesterday I was advised to buy some fish as there is no need to wait for a cycle that is already here. Dai
Well then, guess you don't need our advice now, do you?! I didn't realize I was "old school" with my thoughts about live rock. I wonder what "new school" is?

Quote:
PS: Do you think it is a good idea for me to print this thread and show the LFS people the situation here? I don't want to question their expertise as they have been really helpful with me. However, someone has to be incorrect regarding whether the tank is cycled or not. Dai
Thanks for the chuckle... you don't want to question their expertise (those that are making $$ off you) but are more than happy to disregard a bunch of folks that have established tanks, that have done exactly what you're going through, and are not in a position to make $$ off you. Made me chuckle.

You are correct - someone is wrong. But debating it on the internet is pointless. Throw in a WHOLE raw shrimp and let it dissolve into nothing. Within 2 weeks you will find out who is correct. No doubts about it.

Good luck to ya!
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Old 06-20-2008, 03:42 PM   #78
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Well then, guess you don't need our advice now, do you?! I didn't realize I was "old school" with my thoughts about live rock. I wonder what "new school" is?

Thanks for the chuckle... you don't want to question their expertise (those that are making $$ off you) but are more than happy to disregard a bunch of folks that have established tanks, that have done exactly what you're going through, and are not in a position to make $$ off you. Made me chuckle.

You are correct - someone is wrong. But debating it on the internet is pointless. Throw in a WHOLE raw shrimp and let it dissolve into nothing. Within 2 weeks you will find out who is correct. No doubts about it.

Good luck to ya!
Thank you so much for your reply. I really need to say that I am not disregarding the advice that I have been blessed to have here. I just can't thank you all enough. I am not saying that the LFS advice is correct and what was advised on AA is bunk. I am just letting you all know what I was told by LFS about my current situation. I am not going to buy fish and corals because they say that my water is ready. The reason I bring all this up is not trying to have match between AA and my LFS but rather for me to understand the reasoning on both sides. Please know that I am not disregarding all the help that I am given here. I apologize for all the trouble I have caused. Sincerely, Dai
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:28 PM   #79
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Well then, guess you don't need our advice now, do you?!
Don't be so harsh. There would be no thread to discuss this if Dr. Phan was not questioning the LFS advice. From another prospective we are "amateurs" and those who make money are "professionals". There is a large collective wealth of knowledge there, but until you've really watched what these other "amateurs" have done over time, the average person has no reason to really trust some random people on the internet over someone they know in person.
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:21 AM   #80
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I apologize for all the trouble I have caused. Sincerely, Dai
You've been no trouble to me.
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