Sand is a mess

[JJCRIC]

Hi everyone,
The newbie is back. I set up my tank about 3 months ago, it is a 125 gal, 100lbs of LR 120lbs of regular sand and 60 lbs agra alive sand. I have a few corals in there, about 6 scarlet red leg hermits about 25 blue leg, 2 turbo snails, 15 caribbean snails 2 peppermint shrimp, 1 fire, and 1 coral banded. The top layer of sand keeps getting allege growth. sometimes red some green all different colors really only in low water flow areas, the LFS said just to suck off the top layer when I do a water change and I have done that twice already but I am not sure if that is the best thing to be doing. plus it just comes back. can anyone give me a better idea for a cleaning crew. Something that will stay in the sand and work it all the time. Or is it fine and I should just keep taking the top layer off with a water change. It just looks messy but it doesn't seem to bother anything.

 

[nugrad2005]

Horseshoe crabs are good at sifting the sand. They dig up the top layer and turn it over all the time. Also you could try some star fish, they dig up sand also.

Or, since you know its low flow, buy a powerhead and aim it at that area. If the water is moving it'll be less likely to grow algae.

-Dan

 

[JJCRIC]

great thanks I will try the horseshoe crabs I have 3 powerheads and I am cycling about 15 times an hour if I point them in that area it just blows the sand all around. The LFS says starfish need a well established tank do you think it is to soon to add them or will I be ok.

 

[Hara]

Horseshoe crabs are good at sifting the sand. They dig up the top layer and turn it over all the time

Horseshoe crabs are not the way to go. They will indeed, stir up your sandbed. They will also eat all the good things that live in the sand that help your tank.

 

[JJCRIC]

Hey Hara the LFS said the same thing, what else do you think I could do?

 

[d9hp]

Cyano grows in low flow areas so maybe get two powerheads and have them blowing at the bed on either sides of the tank?

 

[Hara]

Cyano grows everywhere once it takes a good hold. (Ask me about it sometime.)
Once it is well established it is simply work. Keep it vacuumed up, lower the nutrient level in the water with ro water changes, good protein skimmer and most
important....time. I have tried the no light theory, it helps with hair algae, but not cyano, I have had it grow in the nozzle of the powerhead, on rocks under the water flow...

I bought some micro hermits, they seemed to like the stuff, but my tank is so
big that they barely make a dent.

 

[Guest]

Cyano grows everywhere once it takes a good hold. (Ask me about it sometime.)

I will also atest to that. It is really a matter of where the Cyano wants to grow. The water flow theory is just that, a theory. It is a double edge sword. You will see it crop up in many different areas of the tank. Mine seemed to love the high flow areas, as well as the low flow areas. I believe in the lower the nutrients and the RO water method. It works. I recently went through a major battle and it is still going on in very small quantities after 30 gals of water changed and a complete tear down and brushing of all rocks. Man what a pain in the @$$ . I have to say now though, the PO4 is down to .3 which is way down from 1.5 or so...The nitrates are barely readable at .2 and I am thoroughly pleased in the finished result of all the cleaning.. The Cyano and Hair algea is gross..I had about 4 inches of the muck in the bottom of a 5 gal bucket when I was done... The fish seem happier now that they have a clean home...

 

[stresco]

I actually got some red slime remover from my LFS yest to address the Cyano in my tank. It looked like it did the trick, this morning i didnt see any of that stuff anywhere. And for the horseshoe crab, i got one, he hasnt done anything more than stir up the sand. The Cyano kept coming back. I'm keeping him couse he is kinda a kool. A bit of a conversation piece.

 

[Hara]

You cannot "see" the damage the horseshoe crab does, what he does is deplete the tiny creatures living in your sandbed. The red slime remover is just a "quick cure" that does not address the problems that cause the red slime, in fact, it can exascerbate them by killing the good bacteria in your rocks and sandbed.

I had two horseshoe crabs, until I was doing a midnight tank watch with the flashlight and could no longer see life down there.

 

[stresco]

So maybe its time for Uncle Fester to go?

 

[Hara]

only if you want a healthy and active sandbed....sorry

 

[HoopsGuru]

I wouldn't be overly concerned. If I read correctly, the tank is only 3 months old. Most tanks go through a number of algae blooms until the tank matures...usually somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 months. I would just have patience and maybe add a few more herbivorous snails, 2 turbos and 15 Caribbean snails does not sound like many for a 125g. I have never had much algae control from hermits.

 

[mojoreef]

Well according to the so called experts Cyano is a sign of a healthy sandbed .
Cyano is an algae and bacteria living together. Once the enviroment is skewed in thier direction it will never go away. It comsumes nutrient 500 times faster then the next best Algae. In order to skew things in thier way the following must occur. Could be one or all of them combind.
1> Lighting. As lights get old the begin to shift to the red spectrum. The red spectrum is the ultimate source of food for the algae form of Cyano.
2>Water flow. The algae portion of Cyano has no hold fasts, thus it blankets its territory, thus in order for it to grow and flourish it needs an area where to much water flow wont screw up its growth.
3>Nutrients. Most of all phosphates but it will utilise almost any kind of nutrient, and do it well. Over feeding, poor water quality(as in not ro/di), high bio load (as in lots of fish and lots of fish Poo). Also a poorly running DSB( not enough bugs, or really not enough of the right kind of worm).

check these, fix them and you wont have a problem.

On the DSB one thing to realise is that it wont work if it doesnt have the right kind of worm in it. Most folks think that bristle worms, or pods, or stuff like that will make a DSB work. This is NOT true. A dsb works by transfer of nitrates from the oxygenated zone down to the anoxic zone. All Bugs will not go past the oxygenated zone, with the exception of ONE type of Polychate. If you dont got it the bed dont work, simple as that.


hope it helps


Mike

 

[Hara]

On the DSB one thing to realise is that it wont work if it doesnt have the right kind of worm in it

Which worms would those be?

 

[mojoreef]

LOL I knew that was coming, I am trying to search for the correct name. It is basically a thin earth worm looking polychate. It has the ability to hold its breathe while diving into the anoxic zones, no other critter has that ability (not including bacteria of coarse). YOu can tell if you have this worm by seeing tracks going from the upper zones to the lower ones.

I will do a couple searches and see if I can come up with the scientific name for you.


Mike

 

[Hara]

I have just recently seen, on my glass and sand, a very thin, really really thin, did I mention thin? white worm...would this be it?

 

[d9hp]

I have a bunch of thin worms on my glass, but they are all coiled up, what are they

 

[mojoreef]

Ok hare the scientific name is capitella capitata and they look like this

usually they are kinda flesh tone earth worm color and yes they are thin. Most of the time you will see thier trails through the sand, this is the indicator that you have them and things are working. The really thin thin thin worms are spaggetti worms (look kinda like threads)

d9hp I am not sure check them to see if they are hard or soft.


Mike

 

[HoopsGuru]

Just curious for the scientific study stating the results that a certain worm is needed or a deep sand bed is doomed to failure? If this was true, I would expect to hear a wide range of complaints about this system....as this is the first time I have heard of the mystery worm in question. I have also yet to see the worm be a required part of any detrivore kit.

The fact that "all bugs will not go past the oxygenated zone" is flat out untrue. There are tons of protozoans, bacteria, flatworms, etc that travel through the sandbed even into the upper levels of the anaerobic areas. Diversity is the key over any particular "worm" or any other creature. Most of the worms that help provide water to the lower levels of the substrate are easily established with live rock.

The latest issue of Reefkeeping Online should shed more light on this:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-06/rs/feature/index.htm