Starting a 55, 75, or 90 Gal Tank... Help with what to buy..

[TheChad]

Hey all,


As some of you know we just started a 29 gal tank about a month ago.

My wife and I have quickly found out that a 29 gal tank will not do for our desired occupents, and is sevirly limiting us.

We were talking about upgreading to a 55 Gal in about a year, but after a visit to a new not-so-local Fish store, we found 75, and 90 gal tanks for only a small amount more, and are almost the same size (Wider, but same length).

So we are not sure which we will go with yet, but we are possibly thinking of upgreading a little sooner than a year, possibly in the next 4-6 months.


Our first tank we purchased everything the LFS suggested, and after chatting with many of you on here, we ended up spending $100's more, because the LFS steered us wrong to start...

So before we spend the big big money, I wanted to jump on here and get some input as to what all we will need/want to purchase for our 55, 75, or 90 gal tank.

Unless someone suggests otherwise, we were figureing on getting the tank predrilled for external sump filtration.

Beyond that We are open to suggestion, what type of rock/sand is the best, how much LR should we be looking at getting, what type/brand/model filter system, lighting, etc, etc

Are there any brand's of tanks we should look at, or stay away from? we will be looking at a glass tank.

Thanks for all the help.

-TheChad

 

[drillsar]

Ok heres my 1st? Reef tank or FOWLR?

Wider tanks are better then longer keep that in mind also more water you have the better chemistry..

I would go with a 90gal tank for what I said above..

If its going to be a reef tank heres what I would do and get:

If a 90g:

300w heater or 2 150w heaters(this may be better), Hagen Tronic or Ebo Jager Heaters I recommend DONT GO CHEAP ON THIS!!!!!!

Good SKIMMER!! Euroreef are the best buy expensive but worth it.. Euroreef Model CS135

Lighting that depends on what you want 2-5watts usually more if you want clams and High Lighting animals..

Liverock Well also depends if this is the only filtration you want I RECOMMEND THAT, 180lbs of rock, Mix it FIJI, base rock to save $$$, tonga or etc...

Sump is Optional but recommended, I would go with a 40gal sump with refugium, In refugium macro plants, etc..

Your flow must be at least 900gph-1800gph So probably looking at a mag 12 for return from sump at least..

Sand You can go cheap, SOUTHDOWN PLAY SAND, how much depends on what you want to do DSB or reg for DSB you need around 135lbs for a 3" sand bed.

SETUP:

Get some pvc and cut it so you can raise the live rock and aquascape it..

then Cycle your tank, Heater, skimmer on, etc NO LIGHTS with cycle, better to get uncured rock

After Cycle is complete Ammonia 0 Nitrites 0 Then Siphon all the decay stuff on bottom of tank then add your sand, use like a ziploc bag and cut corner in it so you can get the sand where you want it.. After that do a 30% water change..

2-5 days test again if Ammonia and Nitrites are 0 and Nitrates <20 ppm add your clean up crew

I HOPE I HELPED.. Someone else will buzz in and see if i missed anything..

 

[austinsdad]

One little thing I wish I'd been told... Make sure your stand doesn't have glass doors. I'd love to have a sump/refugium with lights, but can't do that with a glass door.

I'd also suggest you hold out for the 75 or 90g.

 

[tecwzrd]

Ouch, $500+ for a skimmer! Is the Euroreef that much better than a AquaC Remora Pro which is half the price? I know you get what you paid for but $$$ for a skimmer that works marginally better could be better spent elsewhere (like a larger tank).

 

[drillsar]

Euroreef is the BEST.. Aquac is pretty good though, but if you have a big bio load Euroreef will do circles around every skimmer. Im just saying You shouldnt skimp on these main components:

Lighting, heater and skimmer 3 Major areas in my opinion as well as alot of live rock 180lbs for a 90gal tank of course you dont need that much to start but you will need it eventually if thats the only filter you got in the tank.

 

[AMANIQU77]

With regards to your choices of tank sizes, you know what they say: TBTB (The Bigger the Better).

 

[mykpoz]

ood SKIMMER!! Euroreef are the best buy expensive but worth it.. Euroreef Model CS135

Euroreefs are expensive, I would possibly look at the ASM G2 which will be around half the price, and was supposed to be designed by the same team.

For your return pump... I would get a lower gph pump, then a mag 12, one that matches closely to your out put to the skimmer. Will probably be in the neighborhood of a mag7 when you add in the head foot for pumping water... There is no need to pump more water into and out of the sump, then what your skimmer can handle....

I would then get a good external pump and do some closed loops. If you are saving up for the tank, might as well get it drilled. put in a few holes for the closed loop, so that you wont have to clutter your tank up with power heads. If you are looking for something else to add into the mix... i would look at a sea squirt or another oceans motions wave device that can be used on a closed loop ( you wouldn't be sorry...)

basically a 75 or 90g that is reef ready... and get a few more bulkheads in the tank so you can integrate a pump for a closed loop...

as you can see different people have different thoughts

 

[TheChad]

OK guys,

We are going with a 55 Gal. I would like the 90gal, but we have decided that the tank weight and size would be too much for where it has to be placed.

We are getting a 55gal from a friend with a HOB Bio Wheel.


What should we get for this tank? What kind of rocks/sand? Right now we have Dolomite, I have heard alot of people suggest Live sand!?

We are looking at getting LR for this tank, How many LBS of LR per Gal should we have?

Should we have a Skimmer for a 55gal FOWLR?

We will be looking to have: 1 Copper Banded Butterfly (Already Have), 2 Percula Clown Fish, 1 Scooter Blenny, 1 Dwarf Angel.

 

[tecwzrd]

1-1.5 lbs of base/lr per gal. Just about any aragonite sand will do and you will need around 130 lbs for a 3"-4" sand bed.

A skimmer isn’t necessary for a fowlr but it’s a good idea to keep your water clean and remove DOC. Below are some good brands for a 55 gal.
Bak Pak Skimmer
Coralife super skimmer
AquaC Remora Pro

Fish list looks good. I would wait a couple of months on the Scooter Blenny until your tank matures though.

 

[TheChad]

Is the aragonite sand the best to use for a substraight? Better than Crushed Coral or Dolomite?

What's the Difference between Base Rock and Live Rock?


Thanks,

-TheChad

 

[tecwzrd]

JMO I would only use sand since it’s much easier to maintain. I even used aragonite sand in my brackish cichlid tank. cc gets clogged with tons of gunk and can be hard to keep clean. It’s possible that your HD might have it cheap (Southdown brand) but usually you don’t find it till summer. I wouldn’t waste money on any bagged brand that claims it’s “live sand” since most of the life will have died before reaching your tank. Get something with a relatively small grain and in the color you want.

Base rock is just like lr except there is no life on it. It’s usually white and very boring but if “seeded” with some lr will turn live with time. Both are very porous and both provide bio-filtration. lr (depending on the quality) will have either tons or very little life on it. Some lr has corals and even small fish/inverts and most all lr will have some “good” algae and some bacteria already established which gives it that rich color. Some examples below.

BASE ROCK

LIVE ROCK

 

[TheChad]

The Sand you speak of at Home Depot, I assume thats the "Clean" "Play" sand?

Thanks,

-TheChad

 

[tecwzrd]

Southdown/Old Castle to be more accurate. See this thread for more info. Personally I just used CaribSea brand since the tropical play sand wasn’t available in my area.

 

[TheChad]

I was reading about a Deep Sand Bed from About.com, and the information said for a DSB you should have a Skimmer (No Problem), and a Plenum, which they describe as basically and UGF with out the riser tubes installed. But everyone said UGF's are bad.

Here's the page I was reading:
http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/livesandjaubertsetups/a/aa052904jalbert.htm


How do you guys set up a DSB?

Thanks,

-TheChad

 

[tecwzrd]

A plenum is more old school. I like the following articles that go into what comprises a DSB.

wetwebmedia.com
advancedaquarist.com

Basically a sand bed of 3”-4” will give you a lot of the same results without as much risk. If you have sand stirring fish/inverts then it’s even more ideal.

 

[AMANIQU77]

Coo, 55G sounds good. I'd be cautious about Copper Banded Butterflies. They're pretty difficult to maintain and feed.

Base Rocks would normally be a bit more solid rocks but there are porouse base rocks out there as well.

I regret buying life sand or having 2.5 inches of sand in my tank now. I wish I would've had bear bottom, tons of live rocks, and a few cups of sand to cover the remaining bottom. Other than that, it's just a nuisance for me.

Get a skimmer anyways. You can never go wrong with that.

Also, no to UGFs and UGJs, that's right.

Sand is sand so don't buy the Aragalive stuff. Waste of money. With that said, I have aragonite and they're awesome. They don't cause sand storm at all. The stay down.

Good luck!

 

[TheChad]

AMANIQU77: I already have the Copper Banded Butterfly, I know i have read alot that states what you said about being hard to feed.

The one is different. He is a GREAT fish, The LFS said they have had some in the past that were difficult but this one has been great since the day the got him, from the second I got him home, I have shared the same ease with this fish. He eats with out any problems, he is just a great fish..

Unfortunitly right now he has some sort of parasite (White spots), He is in a QT Tank right now with CopperSafe, I just hope to God he survives, He truly is a unique fish and I am sure I would be hard struck to find a replacement.

RE: Live Rocks

What I don't get is everyone is all for stuffing the tank with LR, which i understand the filtration LR serves, But it takes alot of room in a tank, and seems to cut the tank almost in 1/2 as far as volume is concerned.

-TheChad

 

[tecwzrd]

What I don't get is everyone is all for stuffing the tank with LR, which i understand the filtration LR serves, But it takes alot of room in a tank, and seems to cut the tank almost in 1/2 as far as volume is concerned.

It’s really not that “stuffed” if you follow the 1-1.5 lbs per gal rule. I have 90 lbs in my 55 and it does look kind of look like a rock tank coming in at 1.6 lbs per gal but if you only put in 55 lbs in a 55 it looks very natural and even kind of sparse with how much room the fish have swim in. I only have 1 large fish (tang) and 3 small fish which is all I’m going to put in there and they have plenty of room to swim around in.

You could certainly do a FO setup with a HOB filter or wet/dry but then your tank would look very empty if you stock it properly.

I feel main reason so many people use lr is because it is the best bio-filtration compared to other ways of doing it and because we like to duplicate the natural environment to some degree giving semi-aggressive species a place to stake out as their own and feel some security.

 

[TheChad]

1-1.5 lbs of base/lr per gal. Just about any aragonite sand will do and you will need around 130 lbs for a 3"-4" sand bed.

A skimmer isn’t necessary for a fowlr but it’s a good idea to keep your water clean and remove DOC. Below are some good brands for a 55 gal.
Bak Pak Skimmer
Coralife super skimmer
AquaC Remora Pro

Fish list looks good. I would wait a couple of months on the Scooter Blenny until your tank matures though.

I looked for the skimmers you suggested at petsmart but it doesn't look like they carry any of those.

We have to get it from pets mart because we know someone who is getting us everything at cost.

Out of the one's Petsmart carries, which do you suggest? PetsMart.com

Looks like they have: SeaClear, Berlin, Aquarium Systems, and Red Sea Prizm.

Thanks,

-TheChad

 

[jaiden]

Forget petsmart. At least look on marinedepot.com for comparison pricing. All the skimmers that you mention are not recommended highly.

DSB and plenum are not recommended. I agree that 2-4" is plenty. be sure to get aragonite sand.

If you don't like the look of that much LR in the tank, build a sump and put a lot of LR rubble in there. That will give you the right amount without filling the tank.